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Why is there no $B$ component of acceleration in my Multivariable Calculus class?


Multivariable Calculus: Line IntegralCalculus Velocity and AccelerationDecomposition of acceleration into normal and tangential componentsVector Laplacian operator in orthogonal curvilinear coordinatesJustification of manipulations used to solve a physics problem.Injectivity Radius of Surface LevelFind $omega$ such that the sum of the tangential and normal components of acceleration equal half its speed.Is it correct $nabla_s mathbffcdot mathbfI_s = nabla_s mathbff_s$?How to show extrinsic curvature tensor is a symmetric tensorIncluding rotational motion into a reaction-diffusion model













5












$begingroup$


In our class, we're learning that you can split up the acceleration, $mathbfa$, of a particle into two convenient components, like so:



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN$$



Where $a_T$ is the "tangential component" of acceleration, $a_N$ is the "normal component", and $mathbfT$ and $mathbfN$ are the unit tangent and unit normal vectors to the curve $mathbfr(t)$, respectively.



But we also learned earlier about a third kind of vector, $mathbfB$ - the "binormal vector" - which is orthogonal to both $mathbfN$ and $mathbfT$.



Why isn't the formula thus



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN + a_BmathbfB?$$



Note: I know that the binormal vector $mathbfB$ is not generally defined as a unit vector for the purposes of Multivariable Calculus classes. But in this instance, just assume $mathbfB$ represents the unit binormal vector, and that $a_B$ represents the "binormal component" of acceleration.



I have a sneaking suspicion that the jounce, $mathbfj = mathbfr^(3)(t)$, of the particle moving along $mathbfr(t)$ is, in fact, defined by



$$mathbfj = j_TmathbfT + j_NmathbfN + j_BmathbfB.$$



...since, well,



$$mathbfv = VertmathbfvVertmathbfT = v_TmathbfT$$



and



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN;$$



It just seems like each new order of derivative taken of $mathbfr(t)$ adds to the equation a new, orthogonal component of motion. If that's the case, why??










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Aren’t $mathbf a$, $mathbf T$ and $mathbf N$ by definition coplanar?
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    May 16 '18 at 1:43






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I removed the "algebra-precalculus" tag and replaced it with "differential-geometry"; this post is mos' def' "algebra-precalculus". Nice question, though, endorsed!!! Cheers!
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Lewis
    May 16 '18 at 2:52















5












$begingroup$


In our class, we're learning that you can split up the acceleration, $mathbfa$, of a particle into two convenient components, like so:



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN$$



Where $a_T$ is the "tangential component" of acceleration, $a_N$ is the "normal component", and $mathbfT$ and $mathbfN$ are the unit tangent and unit normal vectors to the curve $mathbfr(t)$, respectively.



But we also learned earlier about a third kind of vector, $mathbfB$ - the "binormal vector" - which is orthogonal to both $mathbfN$ and $mathbfT$.



Why isn't the formula thus



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN + a_BmathbfB?$$



Note: I know that the binormal vector $mathbfB$ is not generally defined as a unit vector for the purposes of Multivariable Calculus classes. But in this instance, just assume $mathbfB$ represents the unit binormal vector, and that $a_B$ represents the "binormal component" of acceleration.



I have a sneaking suspicion that the jounce, $mathbfj = mathbfr^(3)(t)$, of the particle moving along $mathbfr(t)$ is, in fact, defined by



$$mathbfj = j_TmathbfT + j_NmathbfN + j_BmathbfB.$$



...since, well,



$$mathbfv = VertmathbfvVertmathbfT = v_TmathbfT$$



and



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN;$$



It just seems like each new order of derivative taken of $mathbfr(t)$ adds to the equation a new, orthogonal component of motion. If that's the case, why??










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Aren’t $mathbf a$, $mathbf T$ and $mathbf N$ by definition coplanar?
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    May 16 '18 at 1:43






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I removed the "algebra-precalculus" tag and replaced it with "differential-geometry"; this post is mos' def' "algebra-precalculus". Nice question, though, endorsed!!! Cheers!
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Lewis
    May 16 '18 at 2:52













5












5








5


3



$begingroup$


In our class, we're learning that you can split up the acceleration, $mathbfa$, of a particle into two convenient components, like so:



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN$$



Where $a_T$ is the "tangential component" of acceleration, $a_N$ is the "normal component", and $mathbfT$ and $mathbfN$ are the unit tangent and unit normal vectors to the curve $mathbfr(t)$, respectively.



But we also learned earlier about a third kind of vector, $mathbfB$ - the "binormal vector" - which is orthogonal to both $mathbfN$ and $mathbfT$.



Why isn't the formula thus



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN + a_BmathbfB?$$



Note: I know that the binormal vector $mathbfB$ is not generally defined as a unit vector for the purposes of Multivariable Calculus classes. But in this instance, just assume $mathbfB$ represents the unit binormal vector, and that $a_B$ represents the "binormal component" of acceleration.



I have a sneaking suspicion that the jounce, $mathbfj = mathbfr^(3)(t)$, of the particle moving along $mathbfr(t)$ is, in fact, defined by



$$mathbfj = j_TmathbfT + j_NmathbfN + j_BmathbfB.$$



...since, well,



$$mathbfv = VertmathbfvVertmathbfT = v_TmathbfT$$



and



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN;$$



It just seems like each new order of derivative taken of $mathbfr(t)$ adds to the equation a new, orthogonal component of motion. If that's the case, why??










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




In our class, we're learning that you can split up the acceleration, $mathbfa$, of a particle into two convenient components, like so:



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN$$



Where $a_T$ is the "tangential component" of acceleration, $a_N$ is the "normal component", and $mathbfT$ and $mathbfN$ are the unit tangent and unit normal vectors to the curve $mathbfr(t)$, respectively.



But we also learned earlier about a third kind of vector, $mathbfB$ - the "binormal vector" - which is orthogonal to both $mathbfN$ and $mathbfT$.



Why isn't the formula thus



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN + a_BmathbfB?$$



Note: I know that the binormal vector $mathbfB$ is not generally defined as a unit vector for the purposes of Multivariable Calculus classes. But in this instance, just assume $mathbfB$ represents the unit binormal vector, and that $a_B$ represents the "binormal component" of acceleration.



I have a sneaking suspicion that the jounce, $mathbfj = mathbfr^(3)(t)$, of the particle moving along $mathbfr(t)$ is, in fact, defined by



$$mathbfj = j_TmathbfT + j_NmathbfN + j_BmathbfB.$$



...since, well,



$$mathbfv = VertmathbfvVertmathbfT = v_TmathbfT$$



and



$$mathbfa = a_TmathbfT + a_NmathbfN;$$



It just seems like each new order of derivative taken of $mathbfr(t)$ adds to the equation a new, orthogonal component of motion. If that's the case, why??







differential-geometry vector-analysis physics vector-fields






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited yesterday









Andrews

1,2641420




1,2641420










asked May 16 '18 at 1:17









Chris ForsythChris Forsyth

311




311







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Aren’t $mathbf a$, $mathbf T$ and $mathbf N$ by definition coplanar?
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    May 16 '18 at 1:43






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I removed the "algebra-precalculus" tag and replaced it with "differential-geometry"; this post is mos' def' "algebra-precalculus". Nice question, though, endorsed!!! Cheers!
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Lewis
    May 16 '18 at 2:52












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Aren’t $mathbf a$, $mathbf T$ and $mathbf N$ by definition coplanar?
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    May 16 '18 at 1:43






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I removed the "algebra-precalculus" tag and replaced it with "differential-geometry"; this post is mos' def' "algebra-precalculus". Nice question, though, endorsed!!! Cheers!
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Lewis
    May 16 '18 at 2:52







2




2




$begingroup$
Aren’t $mathbf a$, $mathbf T$ and $mathbf N$ by definition coplanar?
$endgroup$
– amd
May 16 '18 at 1:43




$begingroup$
Aren’t $mathbf a$, $mathbf T$ and $mathbf N$ by definition coplanar?
$endgroup$
– amd
May 16 '18 at 1:43




1




1




$begingroup$
I removed the "algebra-precalculus" tag and replaced it with "differential-geometry"; this post is mos' def' "algebra-precalculus". Nice question, though, endorsed!!! Cheers!
$endgroup$
– Robert Lewis
May 16 '18 at 2:52




$begingroup$
I removed the "algebra-precalculus" tag and replaced it with "differential-geometry"; this post is mos' def' "algebra-precalculus". Nice question, though, endorsed!!! Cheers!
$endgroup$
– Robert Lewis
May 16 '18 at 2:52










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

First, a note to your note: the way the binormal vector $mathbfB$ is defined, it is automatically a unit vector (whenever it's well-defined); but for some historical reason (which I don't know) the word "unit" isn't used in its name. More specifically, $mathbfB=mathbfTtimesmathbfN$ and $|mathbfB|=|mathbfT||mathbfN|cos(pi/2)=1cdot1cdot1=1$.



Regarding your first question: in fact, we can say that $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN+a_BmathbfB$, because the three vectors $mathbfT$, $mathbfN$, and $mathbfB$ (when they are well-defined) form an orthonormal basis. But it turns out that $a_B=0$ always, hence the standard expression $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN$.



Why is $a_B=0$? I presume you've read calculations leading to this formula, so instead I'll try to describe my personal way of understanding this intuitively. The two vectors $mathbfv=mathbfr'(t)$ and $mathbfa=mathbfr''(t)$ typically span a plane (unless they are collinear or one is zero), called the osculating plane. So to describe any vector in that plane we only need two basis vectors. And $mathbfT$ and $mathbfN$ do just that — they form an orthonormal basis for this plane. We will need a third basis vector $mathbfB$ for any vectors sticking out of this plane, such as $mathbfr'''(t)$, for example, which may or may not be in the same plane.






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    1 Answer
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    active

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    3












    $begingroup$

    First, a note to your note: the way the binormal vector $mathbfB$ is defined, it is automatically a unit vector (whenever it's well-defined); but for some historical reason (which I don't know) the word "unit" isn't used in its name. More specifically, $mathbfB=mathbfTtimesmathbfN$ and $|mathbfB|=|mathbfT||mathbfN|cos(pi/2)=1cdot1cdot1=1$.



    Regarding your first question: in fact, we can say that $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN+a_BmathbfB$, because the three vectors $mathbfT$, $mathbfN$, and $mathbfB$ (when they are well-defined) form an orthonormal basis. But it turns out that $a_B=0$ always, hence the standard expression $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN$.



    Why is $a_B=0$? I presume you've read calculations leading to this formula, so instead I'll try to describe my personal way of understanding this intuitively. The two vectors $mathbfv=mathbfr'(t)$ and $mathbfa=mathbfr''(t)$ typically span a plane (unless they are collinear or one is zero), called the osculating plane. So to describe any vector in that plane we only need two basis vectors. And $mathbfT$ and $mathbfN$ do just that — they form an orthonormal basis for this plane. We will need a third basis vector $mathbfB$ for any vectors sticking out of this plane, such as $mathbfr'''(t)$, for example, which may or may not be in the same plane.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      3












      $begingroup$

      First, a note to your note: the way the binormal vector $mathbfB$ is defined, it is automatically a unit vector (whenever it's well-defined); but for some historical reason (which I don't know) the word "unit" isn't used in its name. More specifically, $mathbfB=mathbfTtimesmathbfN$ and $|mathbfB|=|mathbfT||mathbfN|cos(pi/2)=1cdot1cdot1=1$.



      Regarding your first question: in fact, we can say that $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN+a_BmathbfB$, because the three vectors $mathbfT$, $mathbfN$, and $mathbfB$ (when they are well-defined) form an orthonormal basis. But it turns out that $a_B=0$ always, hence the standard expression $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN$.



      Why is $a_B=0$? I presume you've read calculations leading to this formula, so instead I'll try to describe my personal way of understanding this intuitively. The two vectors $mathbfv=mathbfr'(t)$ and $mathbfa=mathbfr''(t)$ typically span a plane (unless they are collinear or one is zero), called the osculating plane. So to describe any vector in that plane we only need two basis vectors. And $mathbfT$ and $mathbfN$ do just that — they form an orthonormal basis for this plane. We will need a third basis vector $mathbfB$ for any vectors sticking out of this plane, such as $mathbfr'''(t)$, for example, which may or may not be in the same plane.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        3












        3








        3





        $begingroup$

        First, a note to your note: the way the binormal vector $mathbfB$ is defined, it is automatically a unit vector (whenever it's well-defined); but for some historical reason (which I don't know) the word "unit" isn't used in its name. More specifically, $mathbfB=mathbfTtimesmathbfN$ and $|mathbfB|=|mathbfT||mathbfN|cos(pi/2)=1cdot1cdot1=1$.



        Regarding your first question: in fact, we can say that $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN+a_BmathbfB$, because the three vectors $mathbfT$, $mathbfN$, and $mathbfB$ (when they are well-defined) form an orthonormal basis. But it turns out that $a_B=0$ always, hence the standard expression $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN$.



        Why is $a_B=0$? I presume you've read calculations leading to this formula, so instead I'll try to describe my personal way of understanding this intuitively. The two vectors $mathbfv=mathbfr'(t)$ and $mathbfa=mathbfr''(t)$ typically span a plane (unless they are collinear or one is zero), called the osculating plane. So to describe any vector in that plane we only need two basis vectors. And $mathbfT$ and $mathbfN$ do just that — they form an orthonormal basis for this plane. We will need a third basis vector $mathbfB$ for any vectors sticking out of this plane, such as $mathbfr'''(t)$, for example, which may or may not be in the same plane.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        First, a note to your note: the way the binormal vector $mathbfB$ is defined, it is automatically a unit vector (whenever it's well-defined); but for some historical reason (which I don't know) the word "unit" isn't used in its name. More specifically, $mathbfB=mathbfTtimesmathbfN$ and $|mathbfB|=|mathbfT||mathbfN|cos(pi/2)=1cdot1cdot1=1$.



        Regarding your first question: in fact, we can say that $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN+a_BmathbfB$, because the three vectors $mathbfT$, $mathbfN$, and $mathbfB$ (when they are well-defined) form an orthonormal basis. But it turns out that $a_B=0$ always, hence the standard expression $mathbfa=a_TmathbfT+a_NmathbfN$.



        Why is $a_B=0$? I presume you've read calculations leading to this formula, so instead I'll try to describe my personal way of understanding this intuitively. The two vectors $mathbfv=mathbfr'(t)$ and $mathbfa=mathbfr''(t)$ typically span a plane (unless they are collinear or one is zero), called the osculating plane. So to describe any vector in that plane we only need two basis vectors. And $mathbfT$ and $mathbfN$ do just that — they form an orthonormal basis for this plane. We will need a third basis vector $mathbfB$ for any vectors sticking out of this plane, such as $mathbfr'''(t)$, for example, which may or may not be in the same plane.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered May 16 '18 at 3:43









        zipirovichzipirovich

        11.3k11731




        11.3k11731



























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