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Simultaneous Least/Greatest Fixed Points


Least common fixed-pointConnection between codata and greatest fixed pointsFunction iteration and intervals of attraction for fixed pointsConfirmation needed of the fact that subcategory $mathbfLat$ is not full in $mathbfPos$How is a complete lattice defined solely by a least-upper bound?What are conditions for Tarski's fixed point theorem so that greatest and least fixed points are not the same?If $f$ is Lipschitz continuous on a closed interval $[a,b]$ such that $f([a,b])subseteq [a,b]$ then it has a unique fixed-pointDoes a fixed point depend smoothly on the parameters?A property of complete lattices, and its relation to continuityHow to show that $F(g)(x) = int_0^x cos(fracg(t)2) dt$ has a unique fixed point?













1












$begingroup$


I have two functions $f : V times S to V$ and $g : V times S to S$ where $V$ and $S$ are complete lattices and $v subseteq v' wedge s subseteq s'$ implies $f(v, s) subseteq f(v', s') wedge g(v, s) subseteq g(v', s')$.



Do we have enough information to show that there exists some $v$ and $s$ such that $v$ is the least fixed point of $f'(x) = f(x, s)$ and $s$ is the greatest fixed point of $g'(x) = g(v, x)$? If so, are $v$ and $s$ unique?



I'd also love a reference for this sort of thing if possible, I've been having a hard time finding one!










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$
















    1












    $begingroup$


    I have two functions $f : V times S to V$ and $g : V times S to S$ where $V$ and $S$ are complete lattices and $v subseteq v' wedge s subseteq s'$ implies $f(v, s) subseteq f(v', s') wedge g(v, s) subseteq g(v', s')$.



    Do we have enough information to show that there exists some $v$ and $s$ such that $v$ is the least fixed point of $f'(x) = f(x, s)$ and $s$ is the greatest fixed point of $g'(x) = g(v, x)$? If so, are $v$ and $s$ unique?



    I'd also love a reference for this sort of thing if possible, I've been having a hard time finding one!










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      I have two functions $f : V times S to V$ and $g : V times S to S$ where $V$ and $S$ are complete lattices and $v subseteq v' wedge s subseteq s'$ implies $f(v, s) subseteq f(v', s') wedge g(v, s) subseteq g(v', s')$.



      Do we have enough information to show that there exists some $v$ and $s$ such that $v$ is the least fixed point of $f'(x) = f(x, s)$ and $s$ is the greatest fixed point of $g'(x) = g(v, x)$? If so, are $v$ and $s$ unique?



      I'd also love a reference for this sort of thing if possible, I've been having a hard time finding one!










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      I have two functions $f : V times S to V$ and $g : V times S to S$ where $V$ and $S$ are complete lattices and $v subseteq v' wedge s subseteq s'$ implies $f(v, s) subseteq f(v', s') wedge g(v, s) subseteq g(v', s')$.



      Do we have enough information to show that there exists some $v$ and $s$ such that $v$ is the least fixed point of $f'(x) = f(x, s)$ and $s$ is the greatest fixed point of $g'(x) = g(v, x)$? If so, are $v$ and $s$ unique?



      I'd also love a reference for this sort of thing if possible, I've been having a hard time finding one!







      fixed-point-theorems lattice-orders fixedpoints






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Mar 30 '17 at 13:58









      Nick RiouxNick Rioux

      1083




      1083




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1












          $begingroup$

          Notations:



          • $f_s:xmapsto f(x,s)$

          • $g_v:ymapsto f(v,y)$

          You question is: If $f:Vtimes Sto V$ and $g:Vtimes S to S$ are monotonic, are there $v_*$ and $s_*$ so that $v=mu f_s_*$ and $s=nu g_v_*$?




          First, note that since $f$ is monotonic, so is $f_s$ for every $s$ so that $mu f_s$ always exists (by the Knaster–Tarski theorem). Similarly $nu g_v$ always exists.



          But this isn't enough because if you take some random $s_0$, then you can take $v_1:=mu f_s_0$ and then $s_2:=nu g_v_1$ but there no reason to have $s_2=s_0$. We could try to go one step further by taking $v_3:=mu f_s_2$ but then again, there would be no reason to have $v_3=v_1$. Can you see where I'm going with this?




          What we want is a fixpoint of $(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$. Can we have that?




          -




          Yes! We can just prove that $H:(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$ is monotonic. Then we're done by the Knaster–Tarski theorem.




          -




          Define $F:smapsto f_s$ and $M:fmapsto mu f$. Why are they monotonous?




          -




          $F$ is monotonic because $sle s'$ implies $forall v, f_s(v)=f(v,s)le f(v,s')=f_s'(v)$.




          -




          $M$ is monotonic because if $fle g$, then whenever $g(x)le x$ we have the inequality $f(x)le g(x)le x$. We therefore have the inclusion $x:f(x)le xsupseteq x:g(x)le x$. From which we can conclude that $mu f = bigwedgex:f(x)le xle bigwedge x:g(x)le x=mu g$




          -




          Similar arguments work for $G:vmapsto g_v$ and $N:gmapsto nu g$. If $fle g$, $xle f(x)$ implies $x le f(x) le g(x)$, so $x:x le f(x)subseteq x:x le g(x)$. And we conclude $nu f=bigvee x:x le f(x)le bigvee x:x le g(x) = nu g$





          To show that it is not unique, you can take $V=S$, $f(v,s)=vlor s$ and $g(v,s)=vland s$. What's $mu f_s$?




          Hint: $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$




          -




          $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $v=vlor s$. But $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$ so that $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $s le v$, that is $mu f_s=s$. Similarly $nu g_v=v$. So taking $s=v$ is sufficient to satisfy your conditions. Since there are complete lattices with more than one element, we can therefore conclude that the couple $(v,s)$ is not unique in general.





          As for references, I don't really know. I scrolled through this and it looks nice. You could try to use induction or coinduction as keywords in your search.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for the answer! Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here, but it seems to me that to show $H$ is monotonous you actually need to show $s mapsto mu f_s$ and $v mapsto nu g_v$ are. I don't see how these follow from the fact that F and G are monotonous.
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:22










          • $begingroup$
            Yes. I completely forgot to write that part... I'll expand the answer later. The idea is to use the fact that the smallest fixpoint is the inf of the elements $x$ so that $f(x)le x$.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:48










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux (I think) I fixed it.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 14:50










          • $begingroup$
            Still digesting this but it seems really great. Thanks again! I was wondering, if we assume $V$ and $S$ are disjoint, does that change your answer to the question of uniqueness?
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 16:34










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux No. In fact this kind of condition will nearly never help. The problem is that you can make a perfect copy (i.e. an isomorphic structure) of $V$ that is disjoint from $V$. And since everything we said is just about the lattice structure, it will be preserved by isomorphism so replacing one of the two $V$s by a disjoint perfect copy won't affect the proof.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 22:44











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          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          1












          $begingroup$

          Notations:



          • $f_s:xmapsto f(x,s)$

          • $g_v:ymapsto f(v,y)$

          You question is: If $f:Vtimes Sto V$ and $g:Vtimes S to S$ are monotonic, are there $v_*$ and $s_*$ so that $v=mu f_s_*$ and $s=nu g_v_*$?




          First, note that since $f$ is monotonic, so is $f_s$ for every $s$ so that $mu f_s$ always exists (by the Knaster–Tarski theorem). Similarly $nu g_v$ always exists.



          But this isn't enough because if you take some random $s_0$, then you can take $v_1:=mu f_s_0$ and then $s_2:=nu g_v_1$ but there no reason to have $s_2=s_0$. We could try to go one step further by taking $v_3:=mu f_s_2$ but then again, there would be no reason to have $v_3=v_1$. Can you see where I'm going with this?




          What we want is a fixpoint of $(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$. Can we have that?




          -




          Yes! We can just prove that $H:(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$ is monotonic. Then we're done by the Knaster–Tarski theorem.




          -




          Define $F:smapsto f_s$ and $M:fmapsto mu f$. Why are they monotonous?




          -




          $F$ is monotonic because $sle s'$ implies $forall v, f_s(v)=f(v,s)le f(v,s')=f_s'(v)$.




          -




          $M$ is monotonic because if $fle g$, then whenever $g(x)le x$ we have the inequality $f(x)le g(x)le x$. We therefore have the inclusion $x:f(x)le xsupseteq x:g(x)le x$. From which we can conclude that $mu f = bigwedgex:f(x)le xle bigwedge x:g(x)le x=mu g$




          -




          Similar arguments work for $G:vmapsto g_v$ and $N:gmapsto nu g$. If $fle g$, $xle f(x)$ implies $x le f(x) le g(x)$, so $x:x le f(x)subseteq x:x le g(x)$. And we conclude $nu f=bigvee x:x le f(x)le bigvee x:x le g(x) = nu g$





          To show that it is not unique, you can take $V=S$, $f(v,s)=vlor s$ and $g(v,s)=vland s$. What's $mu f_s$?




          Hint: $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$




          -




          $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $v=vlor s$. But $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$ so that $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $s le v$, that is $mu f_s=s$. Similarly $nu g_v=v$. So taking $s=v$ is sufficient to satisfy your conditions. Since there are complete lattices with more than one element, we can therefore conclude that the couple $(v,s)$ is not unique in general.





          As for references, I don't really know. I scrolled through this and it looks nice. You could try to use induction or coinduction as keywords in your search.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for the answer! Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here, but it seems to me that to show $H$ is monotonous you actually need to show $s mapsto mu f_s$ and $v mapsto nu g_v$ are. I don't see how these follow from the fact that F and G are monotonous.
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:22










          • $begingroup$
            Yes. I completely forgot to write that part... I'll expand the answer later. The idea is to use the fact that the smallest fixpoint is the inf of the elements $x$ so that $f(x)le x$.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:48










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux (I think) I fixed it.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 14:50










          • $begingroup$
            Still digesting this but it seems really great. Thanks again! I was wondering, if we assume $V$ and $S$ are disjoint, does that change your answer to the question of uniqueness?
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 16:34










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux No. In fact this kind of condition will nearly never help. The problem is that you can make a perfect copy (i.e. an isomorphic structure) of $V$ that is disjoint from $V$. And since everything we said is just about the lattice structure, it will be preserved by isomorphism so replacing one of the two $V$s by a disjoint perfect copy won't affect the proof.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 22:44















          1












          $begingroup$

          Notations:



          • $f_s:xmapsto f(x,s)$

          • $g_v:ymapsto f(v,y)$

          You question is: If $f:Vtimes Sto V$ and $g:Vtimes S to S$ are monotonic, are there $v_*$ and $s_*$ so that $v=mu f_s_*$ and $s=nu g_v_*$?




          First, note that since $f$ is monotonic, so is $f_s$ for every $s$ so that $mu f_s$ always exists (by the Knaster–Tarski theorem). Similarly $nu g_v$ always exists.



          But this isn't enough because if you take some random $s_0$, then you can take $v_1:=mu f_s_0$ and then $s_2:=nu g_v_1$ but there no reason to have $s_2=s_0$. We could try to go one step further by taking $v_3:=mu f_s_2$ but then again, there would be no reason to have $v_3=v_1$. Can you see where I'm going with this?




          What we want is a fixpoint of $(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$. Can we have that?




          -




          Yes! We can just prove that $H:(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$ is monotonic. Then we're done by the Knaster–Tarski theorem.




          -




          Define $F:smapsto f_s$ and $M:fmapsto mu f$. Why are they monotonous?




          -




          $F$ is monotonic because $sle s'$ implies $forall v, f_s(v)=f(v,s)le f(v,s')=f_s'(v)$.




          -




          $M$ is monotonic because if $fle g$, then whenever $g(x)le x$ we have the inequality $f(x)le g(x)le x$. We therefore have the inclusion $x:f(x)le xsupseteq x:g(x)le x$. From which we can conclude that $mu f = bigwedgex:f(x)le xle bigwedge x:g(x)le x=mu g$




          -




          Similar arguments work for $G:vmapsto g_v$ and $N:gmapsto nu g$. If $fle g$, $xle f(x)$ implies $x le f(x) le g(x)$, so $x:x le f(x)subseteq x:x le g(x)$. And we conclude $nu f=bigvee x:x le f(x)le bigvee x:x le g(x) = nu g$





          To show that it is not unique, you can take $V=S$, $f(v,s)=vlor s$ and $g(v,s)=vland s$. What's $mu f_s$?




          Hint: $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$




          -




          $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $v=vlor s$. But $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$ so that $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $s le v$, that is $mu f_s=s$. Similarly $nu g_v=v$. So taking $s=v$ is sufficient to satisfy your conditions. Since there are complete lattices with more than one element, we can therefore conclude that the couple $(v,s)$ is not unique in general.





          As for references, I don't really know. I scrolled through this and it looks nice. You could try to use induction or coinduction as keywords in your search.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for the answer! Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here, but it seems to me that to show $H$ is monotonous you actually need to show $s mapsto mu f_s$ and $v mapsto nu g_v$ are. I don't see how these follow from the fact that F and G are monotonous.
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:22










          • $begingroup$
            Yes. I completely forgot to write that part... I'll expand the answer later. The idea is to use the fact that the smallest fixpoint is the inf of the elements $x$ so that $f(x)le x$.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:48










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux (I think) I fixed it.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 14:50










          • $begingroup$
            Still digesting this but it seems really great. Thanks again! I was wondering, if we assume $V$ and $S$ are disjoint, does that change your answer to the question of uniqueness?
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 16:34










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux No. In fact this kind of condition will nearly never help. The problem is that you can make a perfect copy (i.e. an isomorphic structure) of $V$ that is disjoint from $V$. And since everything we said is just about the lattice structure, it will be preserved by isomorphism so replacing one of the two $V$s by a disjoint perfect copy won't affect the proof.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 22:44













          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          Notations:



          • $f_s:xmapsto f(x,s)$

          • $g_v:ymapsto f(v,y)$

          You question is: If $f:Vtimes Sto V$ and $g:Vtimes S to S$ are monotonic, are there $v_*$ and $s_*$ so that $v=mu f_s_*$ and $s=nu g_v_*$?




          First, note that since $f$ is monotonic, so is $f_s$ for every $s$ so that $mu f_s$ always exists (by the Knaster–Tarski theorem). Similarly $nu g_v$ always exists.



          But this isn't enough because if you take some random $s_0$, then you can take $v_1:=mu f_s_0$ and then $s_2:=nu g_v_1$ but there no reason to have $s_2=s_0$. We could try to go one step further by taking $v_3:=mu f_s_2$ but then again, there would be no reason to have $v_3=v_1$. Can you see where I'm going with this?




          What we want is a fixpoint of $(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$. Can we have that?




          -




          Yes! We can just prove that $H:(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$ is monotonic. Then we're done by the Knaster–Tarski theorem.




          -




          Define $F:smapsto f_s$ and $M:fmapsto mu f$. Why are they monotonous?




          -




          $F$ is monotonic because $sle s'$ implies $forall v, f_s(v)=f(v,s)le f(v,s')=f_s'(v)$.




          -




          $M$ is monotonic because if $fle g$, then whenever $g(x)le x$ we have the inequality $f(x)le g(x)le x$. We therefore have the inclusion $x:f(x)le xsupseteq x:g(x)le x$. From which we can conclude that $mu f = bigwedgex:f(x)le xle bigwedge x:g(x)le x=mu g$




          -




          Similar arguments work for $G:vmapsto g_v$ and $N:gmapsto nu g$. If $fle g$, $xle f(x)$ implies $x le f(x) le g(x)$, so $x:x le f(x)subseteq x:x le g(x)$. And we conclude $nu f=bigvee x:x le f(x)le bigvee x:x le g(x) = nu g$





          To show that it is not unique, you can take $V=S$, $f(v,s)=vlor s$ and $g(v,s)=vland s$. What's $mu f_s$?




          Hint: $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$




          -




          $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $v=vlor s$. But $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$ so that $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $s le v$, that is $mu f_s=s$. Similarly $nu g_v=v$. So taking $s=v$ is sufficient to satisfy your conditions. Since there are complete lattices with more than one element, we can therefore conclude that the couple $(v,s)$ is not unique in general.





          As for references, I don't really know. I scrolled through this and it looks nice. You could try to use induction or coinduction as keywords in your search.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Notations:



          • $f_s:xmapsto f(x,s)$

          • $g_v:ymapsto f(v,y)$

          You question is: If $f:Vtimes Sto V$ and $g:Vtimes S to S$ are monotonic, are there $v_*$ and $s_*$ so that $v=mu f_s_*$ and $s=nu g_v_*$?




          First, note that since $f$ is monotonic, so is $f_s$ for every $s$ so that $mu f_s$ always exists (by the Knaster–Tarski theorem). Similarly $nu g_v$ always exists.



          But this isn't enough because if you take some random $s_0$, then you can take $v_1:=mu f_s_0$ and then $s_2:=nu g_v_1$ but there no reason to have $s_2=s_0$. We could try to go one step further by taking $v_3:=mu f_s_2$ but then again, there would be no reason to have $v_3=v_1$. Can you see where I'm going with this?




          What we want is a fixpoint of $(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$. Can we have that?




          -




          Yes! We can just prove that $H:(v,s)mapsto (mu f_s,nu g_v)$ is monotonic. Then we're done by the Knaster–Tarski theorem.




          -




          Define $F:smapsto f_s$ and $M:fmapsto mu f$. Why are they monotonous?




          -




          $F$ is monotonic because $sle s'$ implies $forall v, f_s(v)=f(v,s)le f(v,s')=f_s'(v)$.




          -




          $M$ is monotonic because if $fle g$, then whenever $g(x)le x$ we have the inequality $f(x)le g(x)le x$. We therefore have the inclusion $x:f(x)le xsupseteq x:g(x)le x$. From which we can conclude that $mu f = bigwedgex:f(x)le xle bigwedge x:g(x)le x=mu g$




          -




          Similar arguments work for $G:vmapsto g_v$ and $N:gmapsto nu g$. If $fle g$, $xle f(x)$ implies $x le f(x) le g(x)$, so $x:x le f(x)subseteq x:x le g(x)$. And we conclude $nu f=bigvee x:x le f(x)le bigvee x:x le g(x) = nu g$





          To show that it is not unique, you can take $V=S$, $f(v,s)=vlor s$ and $g(v,s)=vland s$. What's $mu f_s$?




          Hint: $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$




          -




          $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $v=vlor s$. But $v=vlor s$ is equivalent to $sle v$ so that $mu f_s$ is the smallest $v$ so that $s le v$, that is $mu f_s=s$. Similarly $nu g_v=v$. So taking $s=v$ is sufficient to satisfy your conditions. Since there are complete lattices with more than one element, we can therefore conclude that the couple $(v,s)$ is not unique in general.





          As for references, I don't really know. I scrolled through this and it looks nice. You could try to use induction or coinduction as keywords in your search.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Mar 31 '17 at 14:50

























          answered Mar 30 '17 at 15:14









          xavierm02xavierm02

          6,65211327




          6,65211327











          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for the answer! Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here, but it seems to me that to show $H$ is monotonous you actually need to show $s mapsto mu f_s$ and $v mapsto nu g_v$ are. I don't see how these follow from the fact that F and G are monotonous.
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:22










          • $begingroup$
            Yes. I completely forgot to write that part... I'll expand the answer later. The idea is to use the fact that the smallest fixpoint is the inf of the elements $x$ so that $f(x)le x$.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:48










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux (I think) I fixed it.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 14:50










          • $begingroup$
            Still digesting this but it seems really great. Thanks again! I was wondering, if we assume $V$ and $S$ are disjoint, does that change your answer to the question of uniqueness?
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 16:34










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux No. In fact this kind of condition will nearly never help. The problem is that you can make a perfect copy (i.e. an isomorphic structure) of $V$ that is disjoint from $V$. And since everything we said is just about the lattice structure, it will be preserved by isomorphism so replacing one of the two $V$s by a disjoint perfect copy won't affect the proof.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 22:44
















          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for the answer! Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here, but it seems to me that to show $H$ is monotonous you actually need to show $s mapsto mu f_s$ and $v mapsto nu g_v$ are. I don't see how these follow from the fact that F and G are monotonous.
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:22










          • $begingroup$
            Yes. I completely forgot to write that part... I'll expand the answer later. The idea is to use the fact that the smallest fixpoint is the inf of the elements $x$ so that $f(x)le x$.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 13:48










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux (I think) I fixed it.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 14:50










          • $begingroup$
            Still digesting this but it seems really great. Thanks again! I was wondering, if we assume $V$ and $S$ are disjoint, does that change your answer to the question of uniqueness?
            $endgroup$
            – Nick Rioux
            Mar 31 '17 at 16:34










          • $begingroup$
            @NickRioux No. In fact this kind of condition will nearly never help. The problem is that you can make a perfect copy (i.e. an isomorphic structure) of $V$ that is disjoint from $V$. And since everything we said is just about the lattice structure, it will be preserved by isomorphism so replacing one of the two $V$s by a disjoint perfect copy won't affect the proof.
            $endgroup$
            – xavierm02
            Mar 31 '17 at 22:44















          $begingroup$
          Thanks for the answer! Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here, but it seems to me that to show $H$ is monotonous you actually need to show $s mapsto mu f_s$ and $v mapsto nu g_v$ are. I don't see how these follow from the fact that F and G are monotonous.
          $endgroup$
          – Nick Rioux
          Mar 31 '17 at 13:22




          $begingroup$
          Thanks for the answer! Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here, but it seems to me that to show $H$ is monotonous you actually need to show $s mapsto mu f_s$ and $v mapsto nu g_v$ are. I don't see how these follow from the fact that F and G are monotonous.
          $endgroup$
          – Nick Rioux
          Mar 31 '17 at 13:22












          $begingroup$
          Yes. I completely forgot to write that part... I'll expand the answer later. The idea is to use the fact that the smallest fixpoint is the inf of the elements $x$ so that $f(x)le x$.
          $endgroup$
          – xavierm02
          Mar 31 '17 at 13:48




          $begingroup$
          Yes. I completely forgot to write that part... I'll expand the answer later. The idea is to use the fact that the smallest fixpoint is the inf of the elements $x$ so that $f(x)le x$.
          $endgroup$
          – xavierm02
          Mar 31 '17 at 13:48












          $begingroup$
          @NickRioux (I think) I fixed it.
          $endgroup$
          – xavierm02
          Mar 31 '17 at 14:50




          $begingroup$
          @NickRioux (I think) I fixed it.
          $endgroup$
          – xavierm02
          Mar 31 '17 at 14:50












          $begingroup$
          Still digesting this but it seems really great. Thanks again! I was wondering, if we assume $V$ and $S$ are disjoint, does that change your answer to the question of uniqueness?
          $endgroup$
          – Nick Rioux
          Mar 31 '17 at 16:34




          $begingroup$
          Still digesting this but it seems really great. Thanks again! I was wondering, if we assume $V$ and $S$ are disjoint, does that change your answer to the question of uniqueness?
          $endgroup$
          – Nick Rioux
          Mar 31 '17 at 16:34












          $begingroup$
          @NickRioux No. In fact this kind of condition will nearly never help. The problem is that you can make a perfect copy (i.e. an isomorphic structure) of $V$ that is disjoint from $V$. And since everything we said is just about the lattice structure, it will be preserved by isomorphism so replacing one of the two $V$s by a disjoint perfect copy won't affect the proof.
          $endgroup$
          – xavierm02
          Mar 31 '17 at 22:44




          $begingroup$
          @NickRioux No. In fact this kind of condition will nearly never help. The problem is that you can make a perfect copy (i.e. an isomorphic structure) of $V$ that is disjoint from $V$. And since everything we said is just about the lattice structure, it will be preserved by isomorphism so replacing one of the two $V$s by a disjoint perfect copy won't affect the proof.
          $endgroup$
          – xavierm02
          Mar 31 '17 at 22:44

















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