Geometry proof problem (high school) [closed] The Next CEO of Stack OverflowTriangle geometry - synthetic proofGeometric proof with a isosceles triangleProof in Geometry. Is this solution correct?Proving $triangle DCA$ is isosceles if point $D$ satisfies $angle DCA=angle DBC=30^circ$ in right isosceles $triangle ABC$High School Trigonometry Problem (I'm ashamed)Deductive geometrySolution to a-concentric-circle-problemKiselev's geometry Problem 67: In an isosceles triangle, two medians/bisectors/altitudes are congruentA simple quadrilateral is a parallelogram if:Geometry problem (proving a relation between sides of a triangle)

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Geometry proof problem (high school) [closed]



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowTriangle geometry - synthetic proofGeometric proof with a isosceles triangleProof in Geometry. Is this solution correct?Proving $triangle DCA$ is isosceles if point $D$ satisfies $angle DCA=angle DBC=30^circ$ in right isosceles $triangle ABC$High School Trigonometry Problem (I'm ashamed)Deductive geometrySolution to a-concentric-circle-problemKiselev's geometry Problem 67: In an isosceles triangle, two medians/bisectors/altitudes are congruentA simple quadrilateral is a parallelogram if:Geometry problem (proving a relation between sides of a triangle)










0












$begingroup$


I have an upcoming chapter test and this was one of the practice problems. Can someone guide me?



Given: Isosceles $triangle ABC$ with $AB$ congruent to $AC$; $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$.
Prove: $AD$ does not bisect $angle A$.



My idea is to use proof by contradiction but I'm not sure if my thinking is right.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



closed as off-topic by Eevee Trainer, Lord Shark the Unknown, mrtaurho, Thomas Shelby, José Carlos Santos Mar 21 at 15:45


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Eevee Trainer, Lord Shark the Unknown, mrtaurho, Thomas Shelby, José Carlos Santos
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.















  • $begingroup$
    Is $D$ necessarily a point on $BC$?
    $endgroup$
    – Sp3000
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:09










  • $begingroup$
    yes it is Sp3000
    $endgroup$
    – Person
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:12















0












$begingroup$


I have an upcoming chapter test and this was one of the practice problems. Can someone guide me?



Given: Isosceles $triangle ABC$ with $AB$ congruent to $AC$; $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$.
Prove: $AD$ does not bisect $angle A$.



My idea is to use proof by contradiction but I'm not sure if my thinking is right.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



closed as off-topic by Eevee Trainer, Lord Shark the Unknown, mrtaurho, Thomas Shelby, José Carlos Santos Mar 21 at 15:45


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Eevee Trainer, Lord Shark the Unknown, mrtaurho, Thomas Shelby, José Carlos Santos
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.















  • $begingroup$
    Is $D$ necessarily a point on $BC$?
    $endgroup$
    – Sp3000
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:09










  • $begingroup$
    yes it is Sp3000
    $endgroup$
    – Person
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:12













0












0








0





$begingroup$


I have an upcoming chapter test and this was one of the practice problems. Can someone guide me?



Given: Isosceles $triangle ABC$ with $AB$ congruent to $AC$; $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$.
Prove: $AD$ does not bisect $angle A$.



My idea is to use proof by contradiction but I'm not sure if my thinking is right.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have an upcoming chapter test and this was one of the practice problems. Can someone guide me?



Given: Isosceles $triangle ABC$ with $AB$ congruent to $AC$; $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$.
Prove: $AD$ does not bisect $angle A$.



My idea is to use proof by contradiction but I'm not sure if my thinking is right.







geometry euclidean-geometry plane-geometry






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 20 at 1:00









Lee David Chung Lin

4,47841242




4,47841242










asked Mar 22 '13 at 23:00









PersonPerson

4731616




4731616




closed as off-topic by Eevee Trainer, Lord Shark the Unknown, mrtaurho, Thomas Shelby, José Carlos Santos Mar 21 at 15:45


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Eevee Trainer, Lord Shark the Unknown, mrtaurho, Thomas Shelby, José Carlos Santos
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







closed as off-topic by Eevee Trainer, Lord Shark the Unknown, mrtaurho, Thomas Shelby, José Carlos Santos Mar 21 at 15:45


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Eevee Trainer, Lord Shark the Unknown, mrtaurho, Thomas Shelby, José Carlos Santos
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.











  • $begingroup$
    Is $D$ necessarily a point on $BC$?
    $endgroup$
    – Sp3000
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:09










  • $begingroup$
    yes it is Sp3000
    $endgroup$
    – Person
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:12
















  • $begingroup$
    Is $D$ necessarily a point on $BC$?
    $endgroup$
    – Sp3000
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:09










  • $begingroup$
    yes it is Sp3000
    $endgroup$
    – Person
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:12















$begingroup$
Is $D$ necessarily a point on $BC$?
$endgroup$
– Sp3000
Mar 22 '13 at 23:09




$begingroup$
Is $D$ necessarily a point on $BC$?
$endgroup$
– Sp3000
Mar 22 '13 at 23:09












$begingroup$
yes it is Sp3000
$endgroup$
– Person
Mar 22 '13 at 23:12




$begingroup$
yes it is Sp3000
$endgroup$
– Person
Mar 22 '13 at 23:12










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

What you can do, and this might be what you meant, is to prove the contrapositive, which is kind of like a proof by contradiction, but is more direct. We take as given the isosceles triangle with $AB cong AC$, with $D$ on $BC$, prove that



Assume $AD$ bisects $angle A,$ then prove that AD is a median of $triangle ABC$.



If you can do this, you will have proven



(I) IF $AD$ bisects $angle A,$, THEN $AD$ is a median of $triangle ABC$.



Proving (I) is equivalent to proving, with the initial "givens", that



(II) if $AD$ is NOT a median of $triangle ABC$, then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



Do you think you can do this? (Think SAS).






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Note: The contrapositive of "IF P then Q" is "If NOT Q, then NOT P" and the two statements are logically equivalent.
    $endgroup$
    – Namaste
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:15










  • $begingroup$
    If I start out saying that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$ then I can show that $triangle ADB$ and $triangle ADC$ are congruent by SAS.But then I would need a contradiction that shows that the assumption is not compatible with the given. We are doing indirect proofs. I've never done a proof by contrapositive.
    $endgroup$
    – Person
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:16










  • $begingroup$
    Well then your assumption would be assuming BOTH that $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$, and assuming that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$. Then with your conclusions, you'll know BC = DC, (that D is the midpoint of BC), and you'll find a contradiction - something that is incompatible with "$AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$."
    $endgroup$
    – Namaste
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks I understand what you're saying
    $endgroup$
    – Person
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










  • $begingroup$
    You're welcome. Does this make sense. I think you know exactly what you need to do. So yes, your thinking/intuition was "spot on".
    $endgroup$
    – Namaste
    Mar 22 '13 at 23:29



















2












$begingroup$

I would prove it using the contrapositive.



You want to prove this: If AD is not a median of $triangle ABC$
(which is the same as D does not bisect BC),
then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



The contrapositive, which is logically equivalent is this:
If AD bisects $angle A$
then AD is a median of $triangle ABC$
(which is the same as D bisects BC).



This should be easy to prove
(SAS).






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    2












    $begingroup$

    If you want to proof by contradiction, then you can do this.



    Assume that $AD$ is not median and bisects $angle BAC$, as it's shown on the picture below



    triangle



    then, according to SAS ($AB = AC$ by statement of the problem, $angle BAD = angle DAC$ by assumption and $AD$ is common edge) $triangle BAD cong triangle ADC$ which means $BD = DC$ as well, which in turn means that $D$ is median. Contradiction.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



















      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3












      $begingroup$

      What you can do, and this might be what you meant, is to prove the contrapositive, which is kind of like a proof by contradiction, but is more direct. We take as given the isosceles triangle with $AB cong AC$, with $D$ on $BC$, prove that



      Assume $AD$ bisects $angle A,$ then prove that AD is a median of $triangle ABC$.



      If you can do this, you will have proven



      (I) IF $AD$ bisects $angle A,$, THEN $AD$ is a median of $triangle ABC$.



      Proving (I) is equivalent to proving, with the initial "givens", that



      (II) if $AD$ is NOT a median of $triangle ABC$, then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



      Do you think you can do this? (Think SAS).






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$












      • $begingroup$
        Note: The contrapositive of "IF P then Q" is "If NOT Q, then NOT P" and the two statements are logically equivalent.
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:15










      • $begingroup$
        If I start out saying that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$ then I can show that $triangle ADB$ and $triangle ADC$ are congruent by SAS.But then I would need a contradiction that shows that the assumption is not compatible with the given. We are doing indirect proofs. I've never done a proof by contrapositive.
        $endgroup$
        – Person
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:16










      • $begingroup$
        Well then your assumption would be assuming BOTH that $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$, and assuming that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$. Then with your conclusions, you'll know BC = DC, (that D is the midpoint of BC), and you'll find a contradiction - something that is incompatible with "$AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$."
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










      • $begingroup$
        Thanks I understand what you're saying
        $endgroup$
        – Person
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










      • $begingroup$
        You're welcome. Does this make sense. I think you know exactly what you need to do. So yes, your thinking/intuition was "spot on".
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:29
















      3












      $begingroup$

      What you can do, and this might be what you meant, is to prove the contrapositive, which is kind of like a proof by contradiction, but is more direct. We take as given the isosceles triangle with $AB cong AC$, with $D$ on $BC$, prove that



      Assume $AD$ bisects $angle A,$ then prove that AD is a median of $triangle ABC$.



      If you can do this, you will have proven



      (I) IF $AD$ bisects $angle A,$, THEN $AD$ is a median of $triangle ABC$.



      Proving (I) is equivalent to proving, with the initial "givens", that



      (II) if $AD$ is NOT a median of $triangle ABC$, then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



      Do you think you can do this? (Think SAS).






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$












      • $begingroup$
        Note: The contrapositive of "IF P then Q" is "If NOT Q, then NOT P" and the two statements are logically equivalent.
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:15










      • $begingroup$
        If I start out saying that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$ then I can show that $triangle ADB$ and $triangle ADC$ are congruent by SAS.But then I would need a contradiction that shows that the assumption is not compatible with the given. We are doing indirect proofs. I've never done a proof by contrapositive.
        $endgroup$
        – Person
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:16










      • $begingroup$
        Well then your assumption would be assuming BOTH that $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$, and assuming that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$. Then with your conclusions, you'll know BC = DC, (that D is the midpoint of BC), and you'll find a contradiction - something that is incompatible with "$AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$."
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










      • $begingroup$
        Thanks I understand what you're saying
        $endgroup$
        – Person
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










      • $begingroup$
        You're welcome. Does this make sense. I think you know exactly what you need to do. So yes, your thinking/intuition was "spot on".
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:29














      3












      3








      3





      $begingroup$

      What you can do, and this might be what you meant, is to prove the contrapositive, which is kind of like a proof by contradiction, but is more direct. We take as given the isosceles triangle with $AB cong AC$, with $D$ on $BC$, prove that



      Assume $AD$ bisects $angle A,$ then prove that AD is a median of $triangle ABC$.



      If you can do this, you will have proven



      (I) IF $AD$ bisects $angle A,$, THEN $AD$ is a median of $triangle ABC$.



      Proving (I) is equivalent to proving, with the initial "givens", that



      (II) if $AD$ is NOT a median of $triangle ABC$, then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



      Do you think you can do this? (Think SAS).






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      What you can do, and this might be what you meant, is to prove the contrapositive, which is kind of like a proof by contradiction, but is more direct. We take as given the isosceles triangle with $AB cong AC$, with $D$ on $BC$, prove that



      Assume $AD$ bisects $angle A,$ then prove that AD is a median of $triangle ABC$.



      If you can do this, you will have proven



      (I) IF $AD$ bisects $angle A,$, THEN $AD$ is a median of $triangle ABC$.



      Proving (I) is equivalent to proving, with the initial "givens", that



      (II) if $AD$ is NOT a median of $triangle ABC$, then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



      Do you think you can do this? (Think SAS).







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Mar 22 '13 at 23:09









      NamasteNamaste

      1




      1











      • $begingroup$
        Note: The contrapositive of "IF P then Q" is "If NOT Q, then NOT P" and the two statements are logically equivalent.
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:15










      • $begingroup$
        If I start out saying that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$ then I can show that $triangle ADB$ and $triangle ADC$ are congruent by SAS.But then I would need a contradiction that shows that the assumption is not compatible with the given. We are doing indirect proofs. I've never done a proof by contrapositive.
        $endgroup$
        – Person
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:16










      • $begingroup$
        Well then your assumption would be assuming BOTH that $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$, and assuming that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$. Then with your conclusions, you'll know BC = DC, (that D is the midpoint of BC), and you'll find a contradiction - something that is incompatible with "$AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$."
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










      • $begingroup$
        Thanks I understand what you're saying
        $endgroup$
        – Person
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










      • $begingroup$
        You're welcome. Does this make sense. I think you know exactly what you need to do. So yes, your thinking/intuition was "spot on".
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:29

















      • $begingroup$
        Note: The contrapositive of "IF P then Q" is "If NOT Q, then NOT P" and the two statements are logically equivalent.
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:15










      • $begingroup$
        If I start out saying that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$ then I can show that $triangle ADB$ and $triangle ADC$ are congruent by SAS.But then I would need a contradiction that shows that the assumption is not compatible with the given. We are doing indirect proofs. I've never done a proof by contrapositive.
        $endgroup$
        – Person
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:16










      • $begingroup$
        Well then your assumption would be assuming BOTH that $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$, and assuming that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$. Then with your conclusions, you'll know BC = DC, (that D is the midpoint of BC), and you'll find a contradiction - something that is incompatible with "$AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$."
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










      • $begingroup$
        Thanks I understand what you're saying
        $endgroup$
        – Person
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:20










      • $begingroup$
        You're welcome. Does this make sense. I think you know exactly what you need to do. So yes, your thinking/intuition was "spot on".
        $endgroup$
        – Namaste
        Mar 22 '13 at 23:29
















      $begingroup$
      Note: The contrapositive of "IF P then Q" is "If NOT Q, then NOT P" and the two statements are logically equivalent.
      $endgroup$
      – Namaste
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:15




      $begingroup$
      Note: The contrapositive of "IF P then Q" is "If NOT Q, then NOT P" and the two statements are logically equivalent.
      $endgroup$
      – Namaste
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:15












      $begingroup$
      If I start out saying that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$ then I can show that $triangle ADB$ and $triangle ADC$ are congruent by SAS.But then I would need a contradiction that shows that the assumption is not compatible with the given. We are doing indirect proofs. I've never done a proof by contrapositive.
      $endgroup$
      – Person
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:16




      $begingroup$
      If I start out saying that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$ then I can show that $triangle ADB$ and $triangle ADC$ are congruent by SAS.But then I would need a contradiction that shows that the assumption is not compatible with the given. We are doing indirect proofs. I've never done a proof by contrapositive.
      $endgroup$
      – Person
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:16












      $begingroup$
      Well then your assumption would be assuming BOTH that $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$, and assuming that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$. Then with your conclusions, you'll know BC = DC, (that D is the midpoint of BC), and you'll find a contradiction - something that is incompatible with "$AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$."
      $endgroup$
      – Namaste
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:20




      $begingroup$
      Well then your assumption would be assuming BOTH that $AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$, and assuming that $AD$ does bisect $angle A$. Then with your conclusions, you'll know BC = DC, (that D is the midpoint of BC), and you'll find a contradiction - something that is incompatible with "$AD$ is not a median of $triangle ABC$."
      $endgroup$
      – Namaste
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:20












      $begingroup$
      Thanks I understand what you're saying
      $endgroup$
      – Person
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:20




      $begingroup$
      Thanks I understand what you're saying
      $endgroup$
      – Person
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:20












      $begingroup$
      You're welcome. Does this make sense. I think you know exactly what you need to do. So yes, your thinking/intuition was "spot on".
      $endgroup$
      – Namaste
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:29





      $begingroup$
      You're welcome. Does this make sense. I think you know exactly what you need to do. So yes, your thinking/intuition was "spot on".
      $endgroup$
      – Namaste
      Mar 22 '13 at 23:29












      2












      $begingroup$

      I would prove it using the contrapositive.



      You want to prove this: If AD is not a median of $triangle ABC$
      (which is the same as D does not bisect BC),
      then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



      The contrapositive, which is logically equivalent is this:
      If AD bisects $angle A$
      then AD is a median of $triangle ABC$
      (which is the same as D bisects BC).



      This should be easy to prove
      (SAS).






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        2












        $begingroup$

        I would prove it using the contrapositive.



        You want to prove this: If AD is not a median of $triangle ABC$
        (which is the same as D does not bisect BC),
        then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



        The contrapositive, which is logically equivalent is this:
        If AD bisects $angle A$
        then AD is a median of $triangle ABC$
        (which is the same as D bisects BC).



        This should be easy to prove
        (SAS).






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          2












          2








          2





          $begingroup$

          I would prove it using the contrapositive.



          You want to prove this: If AD is not a median of $triangle ABC$
          (which is the same as D does not bisect BC),
          then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



          The contrapositive, which is logically equivalent is this:
          If AD bisects $angle A$
          then AD is a median of $triangle ABC$
          (which is the same as D bisects BC).



          This should be easy to prove
          (SAS).






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          I would prove it using the contrapositive.



          You want to prove this: If AD is not a median of $triangle ABC$
          (which is the same as D does not bisect BC),
          then AD does not bisect $angle A$.



          The contrapositive, which is logically equivalent is this:
          If AD bisects $angle A$
          then AD is a median of $triangle ABC$
          (which is the same as D bisects BC).



          This should be easy to prove
          (SAS).







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Mar 22 '13 at 23:12









          marty cohenmarty cohen

          74.9k549130




          74.9k549130





















              2












              $begingroup$

              If you want to proof by contradiction, then you can do this.



              Assume that $AD$ is not median and bisects $angle BAC$, as it's shown on the picture below



              triangle



              then, according to SAS ($AB = AC$ by statement of the problem, $angle BAD = angle DAC$ by assumption and $AD$ is common edge) $triangle BAD cong triangle ADC$ which means $BD = DC$ as well, which in turn means that $D$ is median. Contradiction.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                2












                $begingroup$

                If you want to proof by contradiction, then you can do this.



                Assume that $AD$ is not median and bisects $angle BAC$, as it's shown on the picture below



                triangle



                then, according to SAS ($AB = AC$ by statement of the problem, $angle BAD = angle DAC$ by assumption and $AD$ is common edge) $triangle BAD cong triangle ADC$ which means $BD = DC$ as well, which in turn means that $D$ is median. Contradiction.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  2












                  2








                  2





                  $begingroup$

                  If you want to proof by contradiction, then you can do this.



                  Assume that $AD$ is not median and bisects $angle BAC$, as it's shown on the picture below



                  triangle



                  then, according to SAS ($AB = AC$ by statement of the problem, $angle BAD = angle DAC$ by assumption and $AD$ is common edge) $triangle BAD cong triangle ADC$ which means $BD = DC$ as well, which in turn means that $D$ is median. Contradiction.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  If you want to proof by contradiction, then you can do this.



                  Assume that $AD$ is not median and bisects $angle BAC$, as it's shown on the picture below



                  triangle



                  then, according to SAS ($AB = AC$ by statement of the problem, $angle BAD = angle DAC$ by assumption and $AD$ is common edge) $triangle BAD cong triangle ADC$ which means $BD = DC$ as well, which in turn means that $D$ is median. Contradiction.







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                  answered Mar 22 '13 at 23:26









                  KasterKaster

                  9,08221730




                  9,08221730













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