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Factor of a product ring can not be free



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InTorsion-free module morphismThe quotient of product of ringsRank of Free Module over a Noncommutative RingProve that a ring R having the property that every finitely generated R-module is free is either a field or the zero ring.If $F_1$ and $F_2$ are free modules on the same set $A$, then $F_1 cong F_2$Given a ring homomorphism and a unital module, make another moduleFactor of the product of rings cannot be free module?Is the “basis” of a free module linearly independent?finite product of artinian rings is artinianEvery projective module is a submodule of a free module?










0












$begingroup$


I have seen the following property in my class note but I don´t know how to prove, could someone help me?



If we consider the product ring $R=R_1timesR_2$, then $R_1$ can not be a free right $R$-module



I think that it must have a simple proof, but I don't get it.



Thanks










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Do you want a proof that this is always the case, or simply that $R_1$ need not be a free $R$-module? If it is the latter, then a cardinality argument would work: suppose $R_1congBbbF_2$ and $R_2congBbbF_3.$ In this case, $# R = 6.$ As any [finite] free $R$-module $M$ satisfies $Mcong bigoplus_i = 1^n R$ for some $n,$ we have $# M = 6^n.$ But $2neq 6^n$ for any integer $n.$
    $endgroup$
    – Stahl
    Mar 23 at 20:47











  • $begingroup$
    Yes, I want to prove that in every product ring $R=R_1times R_2$ (with $R_1$ and $R_2$ non trivial) we have that $R_1$ is not free
    $endgroup$
    – mejopa
    Mar 23 at 22:16
















0












$begingroup$


I have seen the following property in my class note but I don´t know how to prove, could someone help me?



If we consider the product ring $R=R_1timesR_2$, then $R_1$ can not be a free right $R$-module



I think that it must have a simple proof, but I don't get it.



Thanks










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Do you want a proof that this is always the case, or simply that $R_1$ need not be a free $R$-module? If it is the latter, then a cardinality argument would work: suppose $R_1congBbbF_2$ and $R_2congBbbF_3.$ In this case, $# R = 6.$ As any [finite] free $R$-module $M$ satisfies $Mcong bigoplus_i = 1^n R$ for some $n,$ we have $# M = 6^n.$ But $2neq 6^n$ for any integer $n.$
    $endgroup$
    – Stahl
    Mar 23 at 20:47











  • $begingroup$
    Yes, I want to prove that in every product ring $R=R_1times R_2$ (with $R_1$ and $R_2$ non trivial) we have that $R_1$ is not free
    $endgroup$
    – mejopa
    Mar 23 at 22:16














0












0








0





$begingroup$


I have seen the following property in my class note but I don´t know how to prove, could someone help me?



If we consider the product ring $R=R_1timesR_2$, then $R_1$ can not be a free right $R$-module



I think that it must have a simple proof, but I don't get it.



Thanks










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




I have seen the following property in my class note but I don´t know how to prove, could someone help me?



If we consider the product ring $R=R_1timesR_2$, then $R_1$ can not be a free right $R$-module



I think that it must have a simple proof, but I don't get it.



Thanks







abstract-algebra ring-theory modules free-modules






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Mar 23 at 17:48









mejopamejopa

111




111











  • $begingroup$
    Do you want a proof that this is always the case, or simply that $R_1$ need not be a free $R$-module? If it is the latter, then a cardinality argument would work: suppose $R_1congBbbF_2$ and $R_2congBbbF_3.$ In this case, $# R = 6.$ As any [finite] free $R$-module $M$ satisfies $Mcong bigoplus_i = 1^n R$ for some $n,$ we have $# M = 6^n.$ But $2neq 6^n$ for any integer $n.$
    $endgroup$
    – Stahl
    Mar 23 at 20:47











  • $begingroup$
    Yes, I want to prove that in every product ring $R=R_1times R_2$ (with $R_1$ and $R_2$ non trivial) we have that $R_1$ is not free
    $endgroup$
    – mejopa
    Mar 23 at 22:16

















  • $begingroup$
    Do you want a proof that this is always the case, or simply that $R_1$ need not be a free $R$-module? If it is the latter, then a cardinality argument would work: suppose $R_1congBbbF_2$ and $R_2congBbbF_3.$ In this case, $# R = 6.$ As any [finite] free $R$-module $M$ satisfies $Mcong bigoplus_i = 1^n R$ for some $n,$ we have $# M = 6^n.$ But $2neq 6^n$ for any integer $n.$
    $endgroup$
    – Stahl
    Mar 23 at 20:47











  • $begingroup$
    Yes, I want to prove that in every product ring $R=R_1times R_2$ (with $R_1$ and $R_2$ non trivial) we have that $R_1$ is not free
    $endgroup$
    – mejopa
    Mar 23 at 22:16
















$begingroup$
Do you want a proof that this is always the case, or simply that $R_1$ need not be a free $R$-module? If it is the latter, then a cardinality argument would work: suppose $R_1congBbbF_2$ and $R_2congBbbF_3.$ In this case, $# R = 6.$ As any [finite] free $R$-module $M$ satisfies $Mcong bigoplus_i = 1^n R$ for some $n,$ we have $# M = 6^n.$ But $2neq 6^n$ for any integer $n.$
$endgroup$
– Stahl
Mar 23 at 20:47





$begingroup$
Do you want a proof that this is always the case, or simply that $R_1$ need not be a free $R$-module? If it is the latter, then a cardinality argument would work: suppose $R_1congBbbF_2$ and $R_2congBbbF_3.$ In this case, $# R = 6.$ As any [finite] free $R$-module $M$ satisfies $Mcong bigoplus_i = 1^n R$ for some $n,$ we have $# M = 6^n.$ But $2neq 6^n$ for any integer $n.$
$endgroup$
– Stahl
Mar 23 at 20:47













$begingroup$
Yes, I want to prove that in every product ring $R=R_1times R_2$ (with $R_1$ and $R_2$ non trivial) we have that $R_1$ is not free
$endgroup$
– mejopa
Mar 23 at 22:16





$begingroup$
Yes, I want to prove that in every product ring $R=R_1times R_2$ (with $R_1$ and $R_2$ non trivial) we have that $R_1$ is not free
$endgroup$
– mejopa
Mar 23 at 22:16











3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

Let $F$ be a nonzero free left $R$-module. Then $operatornameAnn_R(F)=rin R:rF=0=0$.



This is essentially obvious, because $F$ is a direct sum of copies of $R$.



Now note that, when $R=R_1times R_2$, $operatornameAnn_R(R_1times0)=0times R_2$. If neither $R_1$ nor $R_2$ is the trivial ring, we're done.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    0












    $begingroup$

    Let's assume that things are non-trivial, that is, both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring.



    Now, multiplication in the product ring $R_1 times R_2$ is coordinate-wise, that is, for an element $(a_1, a_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $a_1 in R_1$ and $a_2 in R_2$, and another element $(b_1, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $b_1 in R_1$ and $b_2 in R_2$, we have
    $$
    (a_1, a_2) cdot (b_1, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, b_1 cdot b_2).
    $$



    Moreover, we can identify the ring $R_1$ with the subring $R_1 times 0_R_2 subseteq R_1 times R_2$ where $0_R_2$ denotes the zero element of $R_2$. The identification map is
    $$
    iota_1 : R_1 rightarrow R_1 times R_2,quad a mapsto (a, 0_R_2).
    $$

    Now, $R_1 times 0_R_2$, being a subring of $R_1 times R_2$, is a right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module, where the module operation is given by ring multiplication. That is, if we have a "module element" $(a_1, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a "coefficiont ring element" $(a_2, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$, then the product is
    $$
    (a_1, 0_R_2) cdot (a_2, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, 0_R_2).
    $$

    Now, since both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring, we can pick $a_3 in R_1 setminus 0_R_1$ and $b_3 in R_2 setminus 0_R_2$. With these, we construct a nonzero "module element" $(a_3, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a nonzero "coefficient ring element" $(0_R_1, b_3) in in R_1 times R_2$. Their product is then
    $$
    (a_3, 0_R_2) cdot (0_R_1, b_3) = (0_R_1, 0_R_2).
    $$

    That is, the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is the zero module element.
    This does not happen in a free module.



    So we have shown that $R_1 times 0_R_2$ is not a free right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Suppose $R = BbbC[x]/(x^2).$ Then $M = R$ is certainly a free $R$-module, and $xin R$ is a nonzero ring (and module) element. However, $xcdot x = 0$ in $R.$ You need to ensure that the elements you choose are not only nonzero, but non-zero divisors (and of course, elements of the form $(0,r)$ and $(r,0)$ are always zero divisors in a product ring).
      $endgroup$
      – Stahl
      Mar 23 at 21:07











    • $begingroup$
      Another counterexample to the claim that "the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is never the zero module element in a free module" is the following: let $R$ be a nonzero ring, and consider the free rank one $Rtimes R$-module $M = Rtimes R.$ Then $(1,0)cdot(0,1) = (0,0),$ but $(1,0)$ and $(0,1)$ are nonzero ring/module elements.
      $endgroup$
      – Stahl
      Mar 23 at 21:13











    • $begingroup$
      So, is not this proof right?
      $endgroup$
      – mejopa
      Mar 23 at 22:17






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @mejopa no, this argument is incorrect - the same logic would imply that $R_1times R_2$ is not free over itself, which is absurd.
      $endgroup$
      – Stahl
      Mar 23 at 22:18


















    0












    $begingroup$

    Suppose $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, and consider $R_1 = M$ as a right $R = R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action
    beginalign*
    Mtimes R&to M\
    (m,(r,s))&mapsto mr.
    endalign*



    To show that $M$ is not free over $R,$ we must show that there is no basis of $M.$ Recall that a basis of $M$ is a subset $B = e_imid iin Isubseteq M$ such that the following two conditions hold:



    1. For any $min M,$ there exists a finite subset $Jsubseteq I$ and collection of elements $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq R$ such that $$m = sum_jin J e_j r_j,$$ and

    2. If $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq Isubseteq R$ is a finite collection of elements of $R$ such that $$sum_jin J e_j r_j = 0,$$ then $r_j = 0$ for all $j.$

    To that end, suppose such a basis $B = e_i_iin Isubseteq M$ exists (as $R_1$ is nontrivial, the set $B$ is necessarily nonempty). Let $r = (0,1),$ and choose any $ein B.$ Then we have
    $$
    er = e(0,1) = ecdot 0 = 0,
    $$

    but $(0,1)in R$ is not zero (as $R_2$ is not the trivial ring). This contradicts our assumption that $B$ was a basis. Therefore, assuming that both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, we have shown $R_1$ cannot be a free right $R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      1












      $begingroup$

      Let $F$ be a nonzero free left $R$-module. Then $operatornameAnn_R(F)=rin R:rF=0=0$.



      This is essentially obvious, because $F$ is a direct sum of copies of $R$.



      Now note that, when $R=R_1times R_2$, $operatornameAnn_R(R_1times0)=0times R_2$. If neither $R_1$ nor $R_2$ is the trivial ring, we're done.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        1












        $begingroup$

        Let $F$ be a nonzero free left $R$-module. Then $operatornameAnn_R(F)=rin R:rF=0=0$.



        This is essentially obvious, because $F$ is a direct sum of copies of $R$.



        Now note that, when $R=R_1times R_2$, $operatornameAnn_R(R_1times0)=0times R_2$. If neither $R_1$ nor $R_2$ is the trivial ring, we're done.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          Let $F$ be a nonzero free left $R$-module. Then $operatornameAnn_R(F)=rin R:rF=0=0$.



          This is essentially obvious, because $F$ is a direct sum of copies of $R$.



          Now note that, when $R=R_1times R_2$, $operatornameAnn_R(R_1times0)=0times R_2$. If neither $R_1$ nor $R_2$ is the trivial ring, we're done.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Let $F$ be a nonzero free left $R$-module. Then $operatornameAnn_R(F)=rin R:rF=0=0$.



          This is essentially obvious, because $F$ is a direct sum of copies of $R$.



          Now note that, when $R=R_1times R_2$, $operatornameAnn_R(R_1times0)=0times R_2$. If neither $R_1$ nor $R_2$ is the trivial ring, we're done.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Mar 23 at 23:35









          egregegreg

          185k1486208




          185k1486208





















              0












              $begingroup$

              Let's assume that things are non-trivial, that is, both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring.



              Now, multiplication in the product ring $R_1 times R_2$ is coordinate-wise, that is, for an element $(a_1, a_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $a_1 in R_1$ and $a_2 in R_2$, and another element $(b_1, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $b_1 in R_1$ and $b_2 in R_2$, we have
              $$
              (a_1, a_2) cdot (b_1, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, b_1 cdot b_2).
              $$



              Moreover, we can identify the ring $R_1$ with the subring $R_1 times 0_R_2 subseteq R_1 times R_2$ where $0_R_2$ denotes the zero element of $R_2$. The identification map is
              $$
              iota_1 : R_1 rightarrow R_1 times R_2,quad a mapsto (a, 0_R_2).
              $$

              Now, $R_1 times 0_R_2$, being a subring of $R_1 times R_2$, is a right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module, where the module operation is given by ring multiplication. That is, if we have a "module element" $(a_1, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a "coefficiont ring element" $(a_2, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$, then the product is
              $$
              (a_1, 0_R_2) cdot (a_2, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, 0_R_2).
              $$

              Now, since both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring, we can pick $a_3 in R_1 setminus 0_R_1$ and $b_3 in R_2 setminus 0_R_2$. With these, we construct a nonzero "module element" $(a_3, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a nonzero "coefficient ring element" $(0_R_1, b_3) in in R_1 times R_2$. Their product is then
              $$
              (a_3, 0_R_2) cdot (0_R_1, b_3) = (0_R_1, 0_R_2).
              $$

              That is, the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is the zero module element.
              This does not happen in a free module.



              So we have shown that $R_1 times 0_R_2$ is not a free right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                Suppose $R = BbbC[x]/(x^2).$ Then $M = R$ is certainly a free $R$-module, and $xin R$ is a nonzero ring (and module) element. However, $xcdot x = 0$ in $R.$ You need to ensure that the elements you choose are not only nonzero, but non-zero divisors (and of course, elements of the form $(0,r)$ and $(r,0)$ are always zero divisors in a product ring).
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 21:07











              • $begingroup$
                Another counterexample to the claim that "the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is never the zero module element in a free module" is the following: let $R$ be a nonzero ring, and consider the free rank one $Rtimes R$-module $M = Rtimes R.$ Then $(1,0)cdot(0,1) = (0,0),$ but $(1,0)$ and $(0,1)$ are nonzero ring/module elements.
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 21:13











              • $begingroup$
                So, is not this proof right?
                $endgroup$
                – mejopa
                Mar 23 at 22:17






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @mejopa no, this argument is incorrect - the same logic would imply that $R_1times R_2$ is not free over itself, which is absurd.
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 22:18















              0












              $begingroup$

              Let's assume that things are non-trivial, that is, both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring.



              Now, multiplication in the product ring $R_1 times R_2$ is coordinate-wise, that is, for an element $(a_1, a_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $a_1 in R_1$ and $a_2 in R_2$, and another element $(b_1, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $b_1 in R_1$ and $b_2 in R_2$, we have
              $$
              (a_1, a_2) cdot (b_1, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, b_1 cdot b_2).
              $$



              Moreover, we can identify the ring $R_1$ with the subring $R_1 times 0_R_2 subseteq R_1 times R_2$ where $0_R_2$ denotes the zero element of $R_2$. The identification map is
              $$
              iota_1 : R_1 rightarrow R_1 times R_2,quad a mapsto (a, 0_R_2).
              $$

              Now, $R_1 times 0_R_2$, being a subring of $R_1 times R_2$, is a right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module, where the module operation is given by ring multiplication. That is, if we have a "module element" $(a_1, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a "coefficiont ring element" $(a_2, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$, then the product is
              $$
              (a_1, 0_R_2) cdot (a_2, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, 0_R_2).
              $$

              Now, since both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring, we can pick $a_3 in R_1 setminus 0_R_1$ and $b_3 in R_2 setminus 0_R_2$. With these, we construct a nonzero "module element" $(a_3, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a nonzero "coefficient ring element" $(0_R_1, b_3) in in R_1 times R_2$. Their product is then
              $$
              (a_3, 0_R_2) cdot (0_R_1, b_3) = (0_R_1, 0_R_2).
              $$

              That is, the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is the zero module element.
              This does not happen in a free module.



              So we have shown that $R_1 times 0_R_2$ is not a free right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                Suppose $R = BbbC[x]/(x^2).$ Then $M = R$ is certainly a free $R$-module, and $xin R$ is a nonzero ring (and module) element. However, $xcdot x = 0$ in $R.$ You need to ensure that the elements you choose are not only nonzero, but non-zero divisors (and of course, elements of the form $(0,r)$ and $(r,0)$ are always zero divisors in a product ring).
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 21:07











              • $begingroup$
                Another counterexample to the claim that "the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is never the zero module element in a free module" is the following: let $R$ be a nonzero ring, and consider the free rank one $Rtimes R$-module $M = Rtimes R.$ Then $(1,0)cdot(0,1) = (0,0),$ but $(1,0)$ and $(0,1)$ are nonzero ring/module elements.
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 21:13











              • $begingroup$
                So, is not this proof right?
                $endgroup$
                – mejopa
                Mar 23 at 22:17






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @mejopa no, this argument is incorrect - the same logic would imply that $R_1times R_2$ is not free over itself, which is absurd.
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 22:18













              0












              0








              0





              $begingroup$

              Let's assume that things are non-trivial, that is, both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring.



              Now, multiplication in the product ring $R_1 times R_2$ is coordinate-wise, that is, for an element $(a_1, a_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $a_1 in R_1$ and $a_2 in R_2$, and another element $(b_1, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $b_1 in R_1$ and $b_2 in R_2$, we have
              $$
              (a_1, a_2) cdot (b_1, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, b_1 cdot b_2).
              $$



              Moreover, we can identify the ring $R_1$ with the subring $R_1 times 0_R_2 subseteq R_1 times R_2$ where $0_R_2$ denotes the zero element of $R_2$. The identification map is
              $$
              iota_1 : R_1 rightarrow R_1 times R_2,quad a mapsto (a, 0_R_2).
              $$

              Now, $R_1 times 0_R_2$, being a subring of $R_1 times R_2$, is a right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module, where the module operation is given by ring multiplication. That is, if we have a "module element" $(a_1, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a "coefficiont ring element" $(a_2, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$, then the product is
              $$
              (a_1, 0_R_2) cdot (a_2, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, 0_R_2).
              $$

              Now, since both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring, we can pick $a_3 in R_1 setminus 0_R_1$ and $b_3 in R_2 setminus 0_R_2$. With these, we construct a nonzero "module element" $(a_3, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a nonzero "coefficient ring element" $(0_R_1, b_3) in in R_1 times R_2$. Their product is then
              $$
              (a_3, 0_R_2) cdot (0_R_1, b_3) = (0_R_1, 0_R_2).
              $$

              That is, the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is the zero module element.
              This does not happen in a free module.



              So we have shown that $R_1 times 0_R_2$ is not a free right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              Let's assume that things are non-trivial, that is, both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring.



              Now, multiplication in the product ring $R_1 times R_2$ is coordinate-wise, that is, for an element $(a_1, a_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $a_1 in R_1$ and $a_2 in R_2$, and another element $(b_1, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$ with $b_1 in R_1$ and $b_2 in R_2$, we have
              $$
              (a_1, a_2) cdot (b_1, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, b_1 cdot b_2).
              $$



              Moreover, we can identify the ring $R_1$ with the subring $R_1 times 0_R_2 subseteq R_1 times R_2$ where $0_R_2$ denotes the zero element of $R_2$. The identification map is
              $$
              iota_1 : R_1 rightarrow R_1 times R_2,quad a mapsto (a, 0_R_2).
              $$

              Now, $R_1 times 0_R_2$, being a subring of $R_1 times R_2$, is a right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module, where the module operation is given by ring multiplication. That is, if we have a "module element" $(a_1, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a "coefficiont ring element" $(a_2, b_2) in R_1 times R_2$, then the product is
              $$
              (a_1, 0_R_2) cdot (a_2, b_2) = (a_1 cdot a_2, 0_R_2).
              $$

              Now, since both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are not the zero ring, we can pick $a_3 in R_1 setminus 0_R_1$ and $b_3 in R_2 setminus 0_R_2$. With these, we construct a nonzero "module element" $(a_3, 0_R_2) in R_1 times 0_R_2$ and a nonzero "coefficient ring element" $(0_R_1, b_3) in in R_1 times R_2$. Their product is then
              $$
              (a_3, 0_R_2) cdot (0_R_1, b_3) = (0_R_1, 0_R_2).
              $$

              That is, the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is the zero module element.
              This does not happen in a free module.



              So we have shown that $R_1 times 0_R_2$ is not a free right $(R_1 times R_2)$-module.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Mar 23 at 21:00









              jflippjflipp

              3,7511711




              3,7511711











              • $begingroup$
                Suppose $R = BbbC[x]/(x^2).$ Then $M = R$ is certainly a free $R$-module, and $xin R$ is a nonzero ring (and module) element. However, $xcdot x = 0$ in $R.$ You need to ensure that the elements you choose are not only nonzero, but non-zero divisors (and of course, elements of the form $(0,r)$ and $(r,0)$ are always zero divisors in a product ring).
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 21:07











              • $begingroup$
                Another counterexample to the claim that "the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is never the zero module element in a free module" is the following: let $R$ be a nonzero ring, and consider the free rank one $Rtimes R$-module $M = Rtimes R.$ Then $(1,0)cdot(0,1) = (0,0),$ but $(1,0)$ and $(0,1)$ are nonzero ring/module elements.
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 21:13











              • $begingroup$
                So, is not this proof right?
                $endgroup$
                – mejopa
                Mar 23 at 22:17






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @mejopa no, this argument is incorrect - the same logic would imply that $R_1times R_2$ is not free over itself, which is absurd.
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 22:18
















              • $begingroup$
                Suppose $R = BbbC[x]/(x^2).$ Then $M = R$ is certainly a free $R$-module, and $xin R$ is a nonzero ring (and module) element. However, $xcdot x = 0$ in $R.$ You need to ensure that the elements you choose are not only nonzero, but non-zero divisors (and of course, elements of the form $(0,r)$ and $(r,0)$ are always zero divisors in a product ring).
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 21:07











              • $begingroup$
                Another counterexample to the claim that "the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is never the zero module element in a free module" is the following: let $R$ be a nonzero ring, and consider the free rank one $Rtimes R$-module $M = Rtimes R.$ Then $(1,0)cdot(0,1) = (0,0),$ but $(1,0)$ and $(0,1)$ are nonzero ring/module elements.
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 21:13











              • $begingroup$
                So, is not this proof right?
                $endgroup$
                – mejopa
                Mar 23 at 22:17






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @mejopa no, this argument is incorrect - the same logic would imply that $R_1times R_2$ is not free over itself, which is absurd.
                $endgroup$
                – Stahl
                Mar 23 at 22:18















              $begingroup$
              Suppose $R = BbbC[x]/(x^2).$ Then $M = R$ is certainly a free $R$-module, and $xin R$ is a nonzero ring (and module) element. However, $xcdot x = 0$ in $R.$ You need to ensure that the elements you choose are not only nonzero, but non-zero divisors (and of course, elements of the form $(0,r)$ and $(r,0)$ are always zero divisors in a product ring).
              $endgroup$
              – Stahl
              Mar 23 at 21:07





              $begingroup$
              Suppose $R = BbbC[x]/(x^2).$ Then $M = R$ is certainly a free $R$-module, and $xin R$ is a nonzero ring (and module) element. However, $xcdot x = 0$ in $R.$ You need to ensure that the elements you choose are not only nonzero, but non-zero divisors (and of course, elements of the form $(0,r)$ and $(r,0)$ are always zero divisors in a product ring).
              $endgroup$
              – Stahl
              Mar 23 at 21:07













              $begingroup$
              Another counterexample to the claim that "the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is never the zero module element in a free module" is the following: let $R$ be a nonzero ring, and consider the free rank one $Rtimes R$-module $M = Rtimes R.$ Then $(1,0)cdot(0,1) = (0,0),$ but $(1,0)$ and $(0,1)$ are nonzero ring/module elements.
              $endgroup$
              – Stahl
              Mar 23 at 21:13





              $begingroup$
              Another counterexample to the claim that "the product of a nonzero module element and a nonzero coefficient ring element is never the zero module element in a free module" is the following: let $R$ be a nonzero ring, and consider the free rank one $Rtimes R$-module $M = Rtimes R.$ Then $(1,0)cdot(0,1) = (0,0),$ but $(1,0)$ and $(0,1)$ are nonzero ring/module elements.
              $endgroup$
              – Stahl
              Mar 23 at 21:13













              $begingroup$
              So, is not this proof right?
              $endgroup$
              – mejopa
              Mar 23 at 22:17




              $begingroup$
              So, is not this proof right?
              $endgroup$
              – mejopa
              Mar 23 at 22:17




              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              @mejopa no, this argument is incorrect - the same logic would imply that $R_1times R_2$ is not free over itself, which is absurd.
              $endgroup$
              – Stahl
              Mar 23 at 22:18




              $begingroup$
              @mejopa no, this argument is incorrect - the same logic would imply that $R_1times R_2$ is not free over itself, which is absurd.
              $endgroup$
              – Stahl
              Mar 23 at 22:18











              0












              $begingroup$

              Suppose $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, and consider $R_1 = M$ as a right $R = R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action
              beginalign*
              Mtimes R&to M\
              (m,(r,s))&mapsto mr.
              endalign*



              To show that $M$ is not free over $R,$ we must show that there is no basis of $M.$ Recall that a basis of $M$ is a subset $B = e_imid iin Isubseteq M$ such that the following two conditions hold:



              1. For any $min M,$ there exists a finite subset $Jsubseteq I$ and collection of elements $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq R$ such that $$m = sum_jin J e_j r_j,$$ and

              2. If $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq Isubseteq R$ is a finite collection of elements of $R$ such that $$sum_jin J e_j r_j = 0,$$ then $r_j = 0$ for all $j.$

              To that end, suppose such a basis $B = e_i_iin Isubseteq M$ exists (as $R_1$ is nontrivial, the set $B$ is necessarily nonempty). Let $r = (0,1),$ and choose any $ein B.$ Then we have
              $$
              er = e(0,1) = ecdot 0 = 0,
              $$

              but $(0,1)in R$ is not zero (as $R_2$ is not the trivial ring). This contradicts our assumption that $B$ was a basis. Therefore, assuming that both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, we have shown $R_1$ cannot be a free right $R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                0












                $begingroup$

                Suppose $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, and consider $R_1 = M$ as a right $R = R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action
                beginalign*
                Mtimes R&to M\
                (m,(r,s))&mapsto mr.
                endalign*



                To show that $M$ is not free over $R,$ we must show that there is no basis of $M.$ Recall that a basis of $M$ is a subset $B = e_imid iin Isubseteq M$ such that the following two conditions hold:



                1. For any $min M,$ there exists a finite subset $Jsubseteq I$ and collection of elements $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq R$ such that $$m = sum_jin J e_j r_j,$$ and

                2. If $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq Isubseteq R$ is a finite collection of elements of $R$ such that $$sum_jin J e_j r_j = 0,$$ then $r_j = 0$ for all $j.$

                To that end, suppose such a basis $B = e_i_iin Isubseteq M$ exists (as $R_1$ is nontrivial, the set $B$ is necessarily nonempty). Let $r = (0,1),$ and choose any $ein B.$ Then we have
                $$
                er = e(0,1) = ecdot 0 = 0,
                $$

                but $(0,1)in R$ is not zero (as $R_2$ is not the trivial ring). This contradicts our assumption that $B$ was a basis. Therefore, assuming that both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, we have shown $R_1$ cannot be a free right $R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  Suppose $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, and consider $R_1 = M$ as a right $R = R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action
                  beginalign*
                  Mtimes R&to M\
                  (m,(r,s))&mapsto mr.
                  endalign*



                  To show that $M$ is not free over $R,$ we must show that there is no basis of $M.$ Recall that a basis of $M$ is a subset $B = e_imid iin Isubseteq M$ such that the following two conditions hold:



                  1. For any $min M,$ there exists a finite subset $Jsubseteq I$ and collection of elements $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq R$ such that $$m = sum_jin J e_j r_j,$$ and

                  2. If $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq Isubseteq R$ is a finite collection of elements of $R$ such that $$sum_jin J e_j r_j = 0,$$ then $r_j = 0$ for all $j.$

                  To that end, suppose such a basis $B = e_i_iin Isubseteq M$ exists (as $R_1$ is nontrivial, the set $B$ is necessarily nonempty). Let $r = (0,1),$ and choose any $ein B.$ Then we have
                  $$
                  er = e(0,1) = ecdot 0 = 0,
                  $$

                  but $(0,1)in R$ is not zero (as $R_2$ is not the trivial ring). This contradicts our assumption that $B$ was a basis. Therefore, assuming that both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, we have shown $R_1$ cannot be a free right $R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Suppose $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, and consider $R_1 = M$ as a right $R = R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action
                  beginalign*
                  Mtimes R&to M\
                  (m,(r,s))&mapsto mr.
                  endalign*



                  To show that $M$ is not free over $R,$ we must show that there is no basis of $M.$ Recall that a basis of $M$ is a subset $B = e_imid iin Isubseteq M$ such that the following two conditions hold:



                  1. For any $min M,$ there exists a finite subset $Jsubseteq I$ and collection of elements $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq R$ such that $$m = sum_jin J e_j r_j,$$ and

                  2. If $r_jmid jin Jsubseteq Isubseteq R$ is a finite collection of elements of $R$ such that $$sum_jin J e_j r_j = 0,$$ then $r_j = 0$ for all $j.$

                  To that end, suppose such a basis $B = e_i_iin Isubseteq M$ exists (as $R_1$ is nontrivial, the set $B$ is necessarily nonempty). Let $r = (0,1),$ and choose any $ein B.$ Then we have
                  $$
                  er = e(0,1) = ecdot 0 = 0,
                  $$

                  but $(0,1)in R$ is not zero (as $R_2$ is not the trivial ring). This contradicts our assumption that $B$ was a basis. Therefore, assuming that both $R_1$ and $R_2$ are nontrivial, we have shown $R_1$ cannot be a free right $R_1times R_2$-module via the natural action.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Mar 23 at 22:41

























                  answered Mar 23 at 22:28









                  StahlStahl

                  16.8k43455




                  16.8k43455



























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