Define function and image of fat Cantor set Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Cantor set: Lebesgue measure and uncountabilityMeasure of the reciprocal of a Cantor setProof that the Fat Cantor set is not a zero setLebesgue measure of Cantor type set$1/5^n$ middle Cantor setRiemann integral of cantor set $1/5^n$Lebesgue Measure of Cantor SetMaking a dense set of full measure from Cantor like setsA restricted Cantor Set and Lebesgue measureMiddle Fifths Cantor Set is Borel and Has Measure =?

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Resolving to minmaj7



Define function and image of fat Cantor set



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Cantor set: Lebesgue measure and uncountabilityMeasure of the reciprocal of a Cantor setProof that the Fat Cantor set is not a zero setLebesgue measure of Cantor type set$1/5^n$ middle Cantor setRiemann integral of cantor set $1/5^n$Lebesgue Measure of Cantor SetMaking a dense set of full measure from Cantor like setsA restricted Cantor Set and Lebesgue measureMiddle Fifths Cantor Set is Borel and Has Measure =?










0












$begingroup$


This construction I found it paper published in $1965$ I think. Here is the way that defined. Let $I=[0,1]$ and define a Cantor set as follows.



$C_1$ obtained from $I$ by taking the open interval at the center $frac12$ with length $frac14$. In general $C_n$ is the union of $2^n$ closed intervals and $C_n+1$ is obtained from $C_n$ by taking out of each intervals of these $2^n$ intervals a concentric open interval of length $frac12^2n+2$. So, it is easy to see the Lebesgue measure for $C=bigcap_n=1^infty C_n$ is $frac12.$ Now define $f:Irightarrow I^2$ as follows $$ f(t)=(x(t),y(t))$$ where $x(t)=2m(Ccap [0,t])$ and $y(t)=2x(t)-t$ where $m$ is the Lebesgue measure. Let $M=f[I]$ and $K=f[C]$.



Here is my question why $K$ is obtained from $M$ by taking out all open vertical and these occur when abscissa is $frac12$,$frac14$,$frac34$,$frac18$,...



I did not see why this is case. Any help will be appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    @Andres Do you have any idea why this is true?
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 25 at 18:13










  • $begingroup$
    The term "Cantor set" itself refers specifically to Cantor's remove-the-middle-third construction. Sets such as this that remove less are called "Fat Cantor sets".
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 3:39















0












$begingroup$


This construction I found it paper published in $1965$ I think. Here is the way that defined. Let $I=[0,1]$ and define a Cantor set as follows.



$C_1$ obtained from $I$ by taking the open interval at the center $frac12$ with length $frac14$. In general $C_n$ is the union of $2^n$ closed intervals and $C_n+1$ is obtained from $C_n$ by taking out of each intervals of these $2^n$ intervals a concentric open interval of length $frac12^2n+2$. So, it is easy to see the Lebesgue measure for $C=bigcap_n=1^infty C_n$ is $frac12.$ Now define $f:Irightarrow I^2$ as follows $$ f(t)=(x(t),y(t))$$ where $x(t)=2m(Ccap [0,t])$ and $y(t)=2x(t)-t$ where $m$ is the Lebesgue measure. Let $M=f[I]$ and $K=f[C]$.



Here is my question why $K$ is obtained from $M$ by taking out all open vertical and these occur when abscissa is $frac12$,$frac14$,$frac34$,$frac18$,...



I did not see why this is case. Any help will be appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    @Andres Do you have any idea why this is true?
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 25 at 18:13










  • $begingroup$
    The term "Cantor set" itself refers specifically to Cantor's remove-the-middle-third construction. Sets such as this that remove less are called "Fat Cantor sets".
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 3:39













0












0








0





$begingroup$


This construction I found it paper published in $1965$ I think. Here is the way that defined. Let $I=[0,1]$ and define a Cantor set as follows.



$C_1$ obtained from $I$ by taking the open interval at the center $frac12$ with length $frac14$. In general $C_n$ is the union of $2^n$ closed intervals and $C_n+1$ is obtained from $C_n$ by taking out of each intervals of these $2^n$ intervals a concentric open interval of length $frac12^2n+2$. So, it is easy to see the Lebesgue measure for $C=bigcap_n=1^infty C_n$ is $frac12.$ Now define $f:Irightarrow I^2$ as follows $$ f(t)=(x(t),y(t))$$ where $x(t)=2m(Ccap [0,t])$ and $y(t)=2x(t)-t$ where $m$ is the Lebesgue measure. Let $M=f[I]$ and $K=f[C]$.



Here is my question why $K$ is obtained from $M$ by taking out all open vertical and these occur when abscissa is $frac12$,$frac14$,$frac34$,$frac18$,...



I did not see why this is case. Any help will be appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




This construction I found it paper published in $1965$ I think. Here is the way that defined. Let $I=[0,1]$ and define a Cantor set as follows.



$C_1$ obtained from $I$ by taking the open interval at the center $frac12$ with length $frac14$. In general $C_n$ is the union of $2^n$ closed intervals and $C_n+1$ is obtained from $C_n$ by taking out of each intervals of these $2^n$ intervals a concentric open interval of length $frac12^2n+2$. So, it is easy to see the Lebesgue measure for $C=bigcap_n=1^infty C_n$ is $frac12.$ Now define $f:Irightarrow I^2$ as follows $$ f(t)=(x(t),y(t))$$ where $x(t)=2m(Ccap [0,t])$ and $y(t)=2x(t)-t$ where $m$ is the Lebesgue measure. Let $M=f[I]$ and $K=f[C]$.



Here is my question why $K$ is obtained from $M$ by taking out all open vertical and these occur when abscissa is $frac12$,$frac14$,$frac34$,$frac18$,...



I did not see why this is case. Any help will be appreciated.







lebesgue-measure cantor-set






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 26 at 15:49







Gob

















asked Mar 25 at 17:20









GobGob

30328




30328











  • $begingroup$
    @Andres Do you have any idea why this is true?
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 25 at 18:13










  • $begingroup$
    The term "Cantor set" itself refers specifically to Cantor's remove-the-middle-third construction. Sets such as this that remove less are called "Fat Cantor sets".
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 3:39
















  • $begingroup$
    @Andres Do you have any idea why this is true?
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 25 at 18:13










  • $begingroup$
    The term "Cantor set" itself refers specifically to Cantor's remove-the-middle-third construction. Sets such as this that remove less are called "Fat Cantor sets".
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 3:39















$begingroup$
@Andres Do you have any idea why this is true?
$endgroup$
– Gob
Mar 25 at 18:13




$begingroup$
@Andres Do you have any idea why this is true?
$endgroup$
– Gob
Mar 25 at 18:13












$begingroup$
The term "Cantor set" itself refers specifically to Cantor's remove-the-middle-third construction. Sets such as this that remove less are called "Fat Cantor sets".
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 26 at 3:39




$begingroup$
The term "Cantor set" itself refers specifically to Cantor's remove-the-middle-third construction. Sets such as this that remove less are called "Fat Cantor sets".
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 26 at 3:39










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

Note that $x$ is continuous, increasing (but not strictly), and rises from $0$ to $1$. $y(t)$ is also continuous, but is strictly decreasing wherever $x$ is constant. As a result $f$ is one-to-one. Because $f$ is injective, $$M setminus K = f(I setminus C)$$
Now $I setminus C$ consists exactly of all the intervals removed in the construction of $C$. On each of these intervals, $x$ is constant, and $y$ decreases linearly. Thus $f(t)$ is a vertical line segment on these intervals.



When each of these intervals was removed from $C$, at that step, the two intervals left behind were still unbroken, after which they were treated exactly like $I$ itself. In particular, exactly half of their length is removed. Hence when $t$ is the lower endpoint of a removed interval, $x(t) = 2(frac t2) = t$. So determining the abcissa of these vertical line segments is just a matter of finding the left endpoints of all removed intervals in the construction of $C$.



Finally, one has to show that there are no other vertical line segments, other than when $t$ is in one of the removed intervals. Otherwise, removing vertical segments would remove points from $K$ as well. But the only way to have a vertical segment is for $y$ to change while $x$ is constant, which requires $y$ to change linearly, and therefore over some interval. So $x$ is constant over an interval, which means that the intersection of $C$ and this interval has measure $0$. But from the construction, the only intervals over which $C$ has measure $0$ are subsets of the removed intervals. Therefore no vertical open line segment of $f$ intersects $K$.



Thus $f(I setminus C)$ consists entirely of vertical open lines segments, and $K$ contains no vertical open line segments. So removing the vertical line segments ($f(Isetminus C) = M setminus K$) from $M$ leaves $K$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Sincclair,Thank you. Is construction of C as follows $C_1=[0,3/8]cup [5/8,1]$ from $C_2=[0,5/32]cap[7/32,3/8]cap[5/8,25/32]cap[7/32,1]$.So, from where you get $1/2$ is endpoints from one removable intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    @Gob. I don't. You produced that list of abcissas, not me. I find the abcissas to be exactly the lower endpoints of removed intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 17:07











  • $begingroup$
    actually, I just found it the paper as I said. but question is how $frac12$ will be endpoints of intervals because will be removed in the first step
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 17:32











  • $begingroup$
    I going to have to revise this. When $t$ is the lower end of an interval removed at step $n$, then $x(t) = m(C_n cap [0,t])$, that is, everything below $t$ and still remaining after the $n^th$ removal. So while $x(3/8) = 3/8$, we have $x(25/32) = 15/32$. not $25/32$ as I claimed.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 23:48











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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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oldest

votes









1












$begingroup$

Note that $x$ is continuous, increasing (but not strictly), and rises from $0$ to $1$. $y(t)$ is also continuous, but is strictly decreasing wherever $x$ is constant. As a result $f$ is one-to-one. Because $f$ is injective, $$M setminus K = f(I setminus C)$$
Now $I setminus C$ consists exactly of all the intervals removed in the construction of $C$. On each of these intervals, $x$ is constant, and $y$ decreases linearly. Thus $f(t)$ is a vertical line segment on these intervals.



When each of these intervals was removed from $C$, at that step, the two intervals left behind were still unbroken, after which they were treated exactly like $I$ itself. In particular, exactly half of their length is removed. Hence when $t$ is the lower endpoint of a removed interval, $x(t) = 2(frac t2) = t$. So determining the abcissa of these vertical line segments is just a matter of finding the left endpoints of all removed intervals in the construction of $C$.



Finally, one has to show that there are no other vertical line segments, other than when $t$ is in one of the removed intervals. Otherwise, removing vertical segments would remove points from $K$ as well. But the only way to have a vertical segment is for $y$ to change while $x$ is constant, which requires $y$ to change linearly, and therefore over some interval. So $x$ is constant over an interval, which means that the intersection of $C$ and this interval has measure $0$. But from the construction, the only intervals over which $C$ has measure $0$ are subsets of the removed intervals. Therefore no vertical open line segment of $f$ intersects $K$.



Thus $f(I setminus C)$ consists entirely of vertical open lines segments, and $K$ contains no vertical open line segments. So removing the vertical line segments ($f(Isetminus C) = M setminus K$) from $M$ leaves $K$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Sincclair,Thank you. Is construction of C as follows $C_1=[0,3/8]cup [5/8,1]$ from $C_2=[0,5/32]cap[7/32,3/8]cap[5/8,25/32]cap[7/32,1]$.So, from where you get $1/2$ is endpoints from one removable intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    @Gob. I don't. You produced that list of abcissas, not me. I find the abcissas to be exactly the lower endpoints of removed intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 17:07











  • $begingroup$
    actually, I just found it the paper as I said. but question is how $frac12$ will be endpoints of intervals because will be removed in the first step
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 17:32











  • $begingroup$
    I going to have to revise this. When $t$ is the lower end of an interval removed at step $n$, then $x(t) = m(C_n cap [0,t])$, that is, everything below $t$ and still remaining after the $n^th$ removal. So while $x(3/8) = 3/8$, we have $x(25/32) = 15/32$. not $25/32$ as I claimed.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 23:48















1












$begingroup$

Note that $x$ is continuous, increasing (but not strictly), and rises from $0$ to $1$. $y(t)$ is also continuous, but is strictly decreasing wherever $x$ is constant. As a result $f$ is one-to-one. Because $f$ is injective, $$M setminus K = f(I setminus C)$$
Now $I setminus C$ consists exactly of all the intervals removed in the construction of $C$. On each of these intervals, $x$ is constant, and $y$ decreases linearly. Thus $f(t)$ is a vertical line segment on these intervals.



When each of these intervals was removed from $C$, at that step, the two intervals left behind were still unbroken, after which they were treated exactly like $I$ itself. In particular, exactly half of their length is removed. Hence when $t$ is the lower endpoint of a removed interval, $x(t) = 2(frac t2) = t$. So determining the abcissa of these vertical line segments is just a matter of finding the left endpoints of all removed intervals in the construction of $C$.



Finally, one has to show that there are no other vertical line segments, other than when $t$ is in one of the removed intervals. Otherwise, removing vertical segments would remove points from $K$ as well. But the only way to have a vertical segment is for $y$ to change while $x$ is constant, which requires $y$ to change linearly, and therefore over some interval. So $x$ is constant over an interval, which means that the intersection of $C$ and this interval has measure $0$. But from the construction, the only intervals over which $C$ has measure $0$ are subsets of the removed intervals. Therefore no vertical open line segment of $f$ intersects $K$.



Thus $f(I setminus C)$ consists entirely of vertical open lines segments, and $K$ contains no vertical open line segments. So removing the vertical line segments ($f(Isetminus C) = M setminus K$) from $M$ leaves $K$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Sincclair,Thank you. Is construction of C as follows $C_1=[0,3/8]cup [5/8,1]$ from $C_2=[0,5/32]cap[7/32,3/8]cap[5/8,25/32]cap[7/32,1]$.So, from where you get $1/2$ is endpoints from one removable intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    @Gob. I don't. You produced that list of abcissas, not me. I find the abcissas to be exactly the lower endpoints of removed intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 17:07











  • $begingroup$
    actually, I just found it the paper as I said. but question is how $frac12$ will be endpoints of intervals because will be removed in the first step
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 17:32











  • $begingroup$
    I going to have to revise this. When $t$ is the lower end of an interval removed at step $n$, then $x(t) = m(C_n cap [0,t])$, that is, everything below $t$ and still remaining after the $n^th$ removal. So while $x(3/8) = 3/8$, we have $x(25/32) = 15/32$. not $25/32$ as I claimed.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 23:48













1












1








1





$begingroup$

Note that $x$ is continuous, increasing (but not strictly), and rises from $0$ to $1$. $y(t)$ is also continuous, but is strictly decreasing wherever $x$ is constant. As a result $f$ is one-to-one. Because $f$ is injective, $$M setminus K = f(I setminus C)$$
Now $I setminus C$ consists exactly of all the intervals removed in the construction of $C$. On each of these intervals, $x$ is constant, and $y$ decreases linearly. Thus $f(t)$ is a vertical line segment on these intervals.



When each of these intervals was removed from $C$, at that step, the two intervals left behind were still unbroken, after which they were treated exactly like $I$ itself. In particular, exactly half of their length is removed. Hence when $t$ is the lower endpoint of a removed interval, $x(t) = 2(frac t2) = t$. So determining the abcissa of these vertical line segments is just a matter of finding the left endpoints of all removed intervals in the construction of $C$.



Finally, one has to show that there are no other vertical line segments, other than when $t$ is in one of the removed intervals. Otherwise, removing vertical segments would remove points from $K$ as well. But the only way to have a vertical segment is for $y$ to change while $x$ is constant, which requires $y$ to change linearly, and therefore over some interval. So $x$ is constant over an interval, which means that the intersection of $C$ and this interval has measure $0$. But from the construction, the only intervals over which $C$ has measure $0$ are subsets of the removed intervals. Therefore no vertical open line segment of $f$ intersects $K$.



Thus $f(I setminus C)$ consists entirely of vertical open lines segments, and $K$ contains no vertical open line segments. So removing the vertical line segments ($f(Isetminus C) = M setminus K$) from $M$ leaves $K$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Note that $x$ is continuous, increasing (but not strictly), and rises from $0$ to $1$. $y(t)$ is also continuous, but is strictly decreasing wherever $x$ is constant. As a result $f$ is one-to-one. Because $f$ is injective, $$M setminus K = f(I setminus C)$$
Now $I setminus C$ consists exactly of all the intervals removed in the construction of $C$. On each of these intervals, $x$ is constant, and $y$ decreases linearly. Thus $f(t)$ is a vertical line segment on these intervals.



When each of these intervals was removed from $C$, at that step, the two intervals left behind were still unbroken, after which they were treated exactly like $I$ itself. In particular, exactly half of their length is removed. Hence when $t$ is the lower endpoint of a removed interval, $x(t) = 2(frac t2) = t$. So determining the abcissa of these vertical line segments is just a matter of finding the left endpoints of all removed intervals in the construction of $C$.



Finally, one has to show that there are no other vertical line segments, other than when $t$ is in one of the removed intervals. Otherwise, removing vertical segments would remove points from $K$ as well. But the only way to have a vertical segment is for $y$ to change while $x$ is constant, which requires $y$ to change linearly, and therefore over some interval. So $x$ is constant over an interval, which means that the intersection of $C$ and this interval has measure $0$. But from the construction, the only intervals over which $C$ has measure $0$ are subsets of the removed intervals. Therefore no vertical open line segment of $f$ intersects $K$.



Thus $f(I setminus C)$ consists entirely of vertical open lines segments, and $K$ contains no vertical open line segments. So removing the vertical line segments ($f(Isetminus C) = M setminus K$) from $M$ leaves $K$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Mar 26 at 23:49

























answered Mar 26 at 4:11









Paul SinclairPaul Sinclair

20.9k21543




20.9k21543











  • $begingroup$
    Sincclair,Thank you. Is construction of C as follows $C_1=[0,3/8]cup [5/8,1]$ from $C_2=[0,5/32]cap[7/32,3/8]cap[5/8,25/32]cap[7/32,1]$.So, from where you get $1/2$ is endpoints from one removable intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    @Gob. I don't. You produced that list of abcissas, not me. I find the abcissas to be exactly the lower endpoints of removed intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 17:07











  • $begingroup$
    actually, I just found it the paper as I said. but question is how $frac12$ will be endpoints of intervals because will be removed in the first step
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 17:32











  • $begingroup$
    I going to have to revise this. When $t$ is the lower end of an interval removed at step $n$, then $x(t) = m(C_n cap [0,t])$, that is, everything below $t$ and still remaining after the $n^th$ removal. So while $x(3/8) = 3/8$, we have $x(25/32) = 15/32$. not $25/32$ as I claimed.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 23:48
















  • $begingroup$
    Sincclair,Thank you. Is construction of C as follows $C_1=[0,3/8]cup [5/8,1]$ from $C_2=[0,5/32]cap[7/32,3/8]cap[5/8,25/32]cap[7/32,1]$.So, from where you get $1/2$ is endpoints from one removable intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    @Gob. I don't. You produced that list of abcissas, not me. I find the abcissas to be exactly the lower endpoints of removed intervals.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 17:07











  • $begingroup$
    actually, I just found it the paper as I said. but question is how $frac12$ will be endpoints of intervals because will be removed in the first step
    $endgroup$
    – Gob
    Mar 26 at 17:32











  • $begingroup$
    I going to have to revise this. When $t$ is the lower end of an interval removed at step $n$, then $x(t) = m(C_n cap [0,t])$, that is, everything below $t$ and still remaining after the $n^th$ removal. So while $x(3/8) = 3/8$, we have $x(25/32) = 15/32$. not $25/32$ as I claimed.
    $endgroup$
    – Paul Sinclair
    Mar 26 at 23:48















$begingroup$
Sincclair,Thank you. Is construction of C as follows $C_1=[0,3/8]cup [5/8,1]$ from $C_2=[0,5/32]cap[7/32,3/8]cap[5/8,25/32]cap[7/32,1]$.So, from where you get $1/2$ is endpoints from one removable intervals.
$endgroup$
– Gob
Mar 26 at 16:46




$begingroup$
Sincclair,Thank you. Is construction of C as follows $C_1=[0,3/8]cup [5/8,1]$ from $C_2=[0,5/32]cap[7/32,3/8]cap[5/8,25/32]cap[7/32,1]$.So, from where you get $1/2$ is endpoints from one removable intervals.
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– Gob
Mar 26 at 16:46












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@Gob. I don't. You produced that list of abcissas, not me. I find the abcissas to be exactly the lower endpoints of removed intervals.
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– Paul Sinclair
Mar 26 at 17:07





$begingroup$
@Gob. I don't. You produced that list of abcissas, not me. I find the abcissas to be exactly the lower endpoints of removed intervals.
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– Paul Sinclair
Mar 26 at 17:07













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actually, I just found it the paper as I said. but question is how $frac12$ will be endpoints of intervals because will be removed in the first step
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– Gob
Mar 26 at 17:32





$begingroup$
actually, I just found it the paper as I said. but question is how $frac12$ will be endpoints of intervals because will be removed in the first step
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– Gob
Mar 26 at 17:32













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I going to have to revise this. When $t$ is the lower end of an interval removed at step $n$, then $x(t) = m(C_n cap [0,t])$, that is, everything below $t$ and still remaining after the $n^th$ removal. So while $x(3/8) = 3/8$, we have $x(25/32) = 15/32$. not $25/32$ as I claimed.
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– Paul Sinclair
Mar 26 at 23:48




$begingroup$
I going to have to revise this. When $t$ is the lower end of an interval removed at step $n$, then $x(t) = m(C_n cap [0,t])$, that is, everything below $t$ and still remaining after the $n^th$ removal. So while $x(3/8) = 3/8$, we have $x(25/32) = 15/32$. not $25/32$ as I claimed.
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 26 at 23:48

















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