Pythagoras theorem in oblique coordinates The Next CEO of Stack OverflowDot product in coordinatesApproximation of difference of distances to a distant pointFind the value of $a$ for which two lines are perpendicularProving that the dot product is distributive?Prove the distributive property of the dot product using its geometric definition?Components of a vector onto nonorthogonal, nonunit basis vectorsCan one show that $fracvecucdot vecv$ is always on the range of $cos theta $?Angular Difference between two rotation matrices on XZ planeClarification on product rule for vectors in non-Cartesian coordinatesAngle between two non-coplanar vectors

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Pythagoras theorem in oblique coordinates



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowDot product in coordinatesApproximation of difference of distances to a distant pointFind the value of $a$ for which two lines are perpendicularProving that the dot product is distributive?Prove the distributive property of the dot product using its geometric definition?Components of a vector onto nonorthogonal, nonunit basis vectorsCan one show that $fracvecucdot vecvvecu$ is always on the range of $cos theta $?Angular Difference between two rotation matrices on XZ planeClarification on product rule for vectors in non-Cartesian coordinatesAngle between two non-coplanar vectors










0












$begingroup$


consider two oblique oblique basis vectors of unit length $vecr_1, vecr_2$



then any vector $vecv = pvecr_1+qvecr_2$



define the dot product between two vectors a and b as $|b|$ (ie length of b) * (the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b with angle same as that formed between $vecr_1, vecr_2$)



ie such that $vecr_1 cdot vecr_2 = 0$



this is in contrast to the project of a on b along a right angle as done with orthogonal basis where you can use the cosine.



It's easy to show that this definition of the dot product is indeed distributive.



from our definition of v



$vecv cdot vecv = p^2 + q^2 $



Then $|v|^2 = p^2 + q^2$



which geometrically isn't the case,because p and q are oblique components, not perpendicular ones, this should not give you the length of v.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    You just found out that in oblique coordinates $p^2+q^2$ is not the length. The Pythagoras' theorem only applies to right triangles.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 16:01










  • $begingroup$
    @YvesDaoust, well but v dot v has to be the square of the length of v by our definition (edited above)
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 18 at 16:08










  • $begingroup$
    No, it doesn't have to. In oblique coordinates, this is false.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 16:24











  • $begingroup$
    @YvesDaoust we define the dot product as length of one vector * oblique projection of length of other vector on that vector. Now if both vectors are same, don't we have the square of the length?
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 18 at 16:29










  • $begingroup$
    No, you get the scalar square of the vector.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 17:05















0












$begingroup$


consider two oblique oblique basis vectors of unit length $vecr_1, vecr_2$



then any vector $vecv = pvecr_1+qvecr_2$



define the dot product between two vectors a and b as $|b|$ (ie length of b) * (the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b with angle same as that formed between $vecr_1, vecr_2$)



ie such that $vecr_1 cdot vecr_2 = 0$



this is in contrast to the project of a on b along a right angle as done with orthogonal basis where you can use the cosine.



It's easy to show that this definition of the dot product is indeed distributive.



from our definition of v



$vecv cdot vecv = p^2 + q^2 $



Then $|v|^2 = p^2 + q^2$



which geometrically isn't the case,because p and q are oblique components, not perpendicular ones, this should not give you the length of v.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    You just found out that in oblique coordinates $p^2+q^2$ is not the length. The Pythagoras' theorem only applies to right triangles.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 16:01










  • $begingroup$
    @YvesDaoust, well but v dot v has to be the square of the length of v by our definition (edited above)
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 18 at 16:08










  • $begingroup$
    No, it doesn't have to. In oblique coordinates, this is false.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 16:24











  • $begingroup$
    @YvesDaoust we define the dot product as length of one vector * oblique projection of length of other vector on that vector. Now if both vectors are same, don't we have the square of the length?
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 18 at 16:29










  • $begingroup$
    No, you get the scalar square of the vector.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 17:05













0












0








0


0



$begingroup$


consider two oblique oblique basis vectors of unit length $vecr_1, vecr_2$



then any vector $vecv = pvecr_1+qvecr_2$



define the dot product between two vectors a and b as $|b|$ (ie length of b) * (the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b with angle same as that formed between $vecr_1, vecr_2$)



ie such that $vecr_1 cdot vecr_2 = 0$



this is in contrast to the project of a on b along a right angle as done with orthogonal basis where you can use the cosine.



It's easy to show that this definition of the dot product is indeed distributive.



from our definition of v



$vecv cdot vecv = p^2 + q^2 $



Then $|v|^2 = p^2 + q^2$



which geometrically isn't the case,because p and q are oblique components, not perpendicular ones, this should not give you the length of v.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




consider two oblique oblique basis vectors of unit length $vecr_1, vecr_2$



then any vector $vecv = pvecr_1+qvecr_2$



define the dot product between two vectors a and b as $|b|$ (ie length of b) * (the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b with angle same as that formed between $vecr_1, vecr_2$)



ie such that $vecr_1 cdot vecr_2 = 0$



this is in contrast to the project of a on b along a right angle as done with orthogonal basis where you can use the cosine.



It's easy to show that this definition of the dot product is indeed distributive.



from our definition of v



$vecv cdot vecv = p^2 + q^2 $



Then $|v|^2 = p^2 + q^2$



which geometrically isn't the case,because p and q are oblique components, not perpendicular ones, this should not give you the length of v.







geometry vectors






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 18 at 21:39









Jean Marie

31k42255




31k42255










asked Mar 18 at 15:47









VriskVrisk

12012




12012











  • $begingroup$
    You just found out that in oblique coordinates $p^2+q^2$ is not the length. The Pythagoras' theorem only applies to right triangles.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 16:01










  • $begingroup$
    @YvesDaoust, well but v dot v has to be the square of the length of v by our definition (edited above)
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 18 at 16:08










  • $begingroup$
    No, it doesn't have to. In oblique coordinates, this is false.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 16:24











  • $begingroup$
    @YvesDaoust we define the dot product as length of one vector * oblique projection of length of other vector on that vector. Now if both vectors are same, don't we have the square of the length?
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 18 at 16:29










  • $begingroup$
    No, you get the scalar square of the vector.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 17:05
















  • $begingroup$
    You just found out that in oblique coordinates $p^2+q^2$ is not the length. The Pythagoras' theorem only applies to right triangles.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 16:01










  • $begingroup$
    @YvesDaoust, well but v dot v has to be the square of the length of v by our definition (edited above)
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 18 at 16:08










  • $begingroup$
    No, it doesn't have to. In oblique coordinates, this is false.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 16:24











  • $begingroup$
    @YvesDaoust we define the dot product as length of one vector * oblique projection of length of other vector on that vector. Now if both vectors are same, don't we have the square of the length?
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 18 at 16:29










  • $begingroup$
    No, you get the scalar square of the vector.
    $endgroup$
    – Yves Daoust
    Mar 18 at 17:05















$begingroup$
You just found out that in oblique coordinates $p^2+q^2$ is not the length. The Pythagoras' theorem only applies to right triangles.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
Mar 18 at 16:01




$begingroup$
You just found out that in oblique coordinates $p^2+q^2$ is not the length. The Pythagoras' theorem only applies to right triangles.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
Mar 18 at 16:01












$begingroup$
@YvesDaoust, well but v dot v has to be the square of the length of v by our definition (edited above)
$endgroup$
– Vrisk
Mar 18 at 16:08




$begingroup$
@YvesDaoust, well but v dot v has to be the square of the length of v by our definition (edited above)
$endgroup$
– Vrisk
Mar 18 at 16:08












$begingroup$
No, it doesn't have to. In oblique coordinates, this is false.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
Mar 18 at 16:24





$begingroup$
No, it doesn't have to. In oblique coordinates, this is false.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
Mar 18 at 16:24













$begingroup$
@YvesDaoust we define the dot product as length of one vector * oblique projection of length of other vector on that vector. Now if both vectors are same, don't we have the square of the length?
$endgroup$
– Vrisk
Mar 18 at 16:29




$begingroup$
@YvesDaoust we define the dot product as length of one vector * oblique projection of length of other vector on that vector. Now if both vectors are same, don't we have the square of the length?
$endgroup$
– Vrisk
Mar 18 at 16:29












$begingroup$
No, you get the scalar square of the vector.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
Mar 18 at 17:05




$begingroup$
No, you get the scalar square of the vector.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
Mar 18 at 17:05










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

Let me expand on what Yves Daust is saying with a specific example.



Let $vec r_1 = (1,0)$ and $vec r_2 =left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$ and suppose we consider the vector $vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2$.



By the definition of your inner product, $|vec v|^2 = 1^2 + 1^2 = 2$.



Now if we express $vec v$ in terms of canonical coordinates, it is $$vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2 = (1, 0) + left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right) = left(1+frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$$



And therefore its Euclidean norm is given by $$|vec v|^2 = left(1+frac sqrt 22right)^2 + left(fracsqrt 22right)^2 = left(1 + sqrt 2 + frac 12right) + frac12 = 2 + sqrt 2$$



So very clearly, $|vec v| ne |vec v|$.



$|vec v|$ is a norm. It satisfies all the properties necessary to be a norm. But the key word here is "a". There are many, many, norms that can be placed on $Bbb R^2$, so simply being a norm does not make it equal to that other more famous norm.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Okay, I see. Clearly something is off here, I'm not able to pinpoint where however. By my defination a.b = length of b*(the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b ), then if v= a = b, then length of v = length of projection of v on v . therefore |v|^2 = square of length of v ?
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 19 at 14:37











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1 Answer
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active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









0












$begingroup$

Let me expand on what Yves Daust is saying with a specific example.



Let $vec r_1 = (1,0)$ and $vec r_2 =left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$ and suppose we consider the vector $vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2$.



By the definition of your inner product, $|vec v|^2 = 1^2 + 1^2 = 2$.



Now if we express $vec v$ in terms of canonical coordinates, it is $$vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2 = (1, 0) + left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right) = left(1+frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$$



And therefore its Euclidean norm is given by $$|vec v|^2 = left(1+frac sqrt 22right)^2 + left(fracsqrt 22right)^2 = left(1 + sqrt 2 + frac 12right) + frac12 = 2 + sqrt 2$$



So very clearly, $|vec v| ne |vec v|$.



$|vec v|$ is a norm. It satisfies all the properties necessary to be a norm. But the key word here is "a". There are many, many, norms that can be placed on $Bbb R^2$, so simply being a norm does not make it equal to that other more famous norm.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Okay, I see. Clearly something is off here, I'm not able to pinpoint where however. By my defination a.b = length of b*(the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b ), then if v= a = b, then length of v = length of projection of v on v . therefore |v|^2 = square of length of v ?
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 19 at 14:37















0












$begingroup$

Let me expand on what Yves Daust is saying with a specific example.



Let $vec r_1 = (1,0)$ and $vec r_2 =left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$ and suppose we consider the vector $vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2$.



By the definition of your inner product, $|vec v|^2 = 1^2 + 1^2 = 2$.



Now if we express $vec v$ in terms of canonical coordinates, it is $$vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2 = (1, 0) + left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right) = left(1+frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$$



And therefore its Euclidean norm is given by $$|vec v|^2 = left(1+frac sqrt 22right)^2 + left(fracsqrt 22right)^2 = left(1 + sqrt 2 + frac 12right) + frac12 = 2 + sqrt 2$$



So very clearly, $|vec v| ne |vec v|$.



$|vec v|$ is a norm. It satisfies all the properties necessary to be a norm. But the key word here is "a". There are many, many, norms that can be placed on $Bbb R^2$, so simply being a norm does not make it equal to that other more famous norm.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Okay, I see. Clearly something is off here, I'm not able to pinpoint where however. By my defination a.b = length of b*(the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b ), then if v= a = b, then length of v = length of projection of v on v . therefore |v|^2 = square of length of v ?
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 19 at 14:37













0












0








0





$begingroup$

Let me expand on what Yves Daust is saying with a specific example.



Let $vec r_1 = (1,0)$ and $vec r_2 =left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$ and suppose we consider the vector $vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2$.



By the definition of your inner product, $|vec v|^2 = 1^2 + 1^2 = 2$.



Now if we express $vec v$ in terms of canonical coordinates, it is $$vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2 = (1, 0) + left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right) = left(1+frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$$



And therefore its Euclidean norm is given by $$|vec v|^2 = left(1+frac sqrt 22right)^2 + left(fracsqrt 22right)^2 = left(1 + sqrt 2 + frac 12right) + frac12 = 2 + sqrt 2$$



So very clearly, $|vec v| ne |vec v|$.



$|vec v|$ is a norm. It satisfies all the properties necessary to be a norm. But the key word here is "a". There are many, many, norms that can be placed on $Bbb R^2$, so simply being a norm does not make it equal to that other more famous norm.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Let me expand on what Yves Daust is saying with a specific example.



Let $vec r_1 = (1,0)$ and $vec r_2 =left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$ and suppose we consider the vector $vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2$.



By the definition of your inner product, $|vec v|^2 = 1^2 + 1^2 = 2$.



Now if we express $vec v$ in terms of canonical coordinates, it is $$vec v = vec r_1 + vec r_2 = (1, 0) + left(frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right) = left(1+frac sqrt 22, frac sqrt 22right)$$



And therefore its Euclidean norm is given by $$|vec v|^2 = left(1+frac sqrt 22right)^2 + left(fracsqrt 22right)^2 = left(1 + sqrt 2 + frac 12right) + frac12 = 2 + sqrt 2$$



So very clearly, $|vec v| ne |vec v|$.



$|vec v|$ is a norm. It satisfies all the properties necessary to be a norm. But the key word here is "a". There are many, many, norms that can be placed on $Bbb R^2$, so simply being a norm does not make it equal to that other more famous norm.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Mar 18 at 23:23









Paul SinclairPaul Sinclair

20.7k21543




20.7k21543











  • $begingroup$
    Okay, I see. Clearly something is off here, I'm not able to pinpoint where however. By my defination a.b = length of b*(the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b ), then if v= a = b, then length of v = length of projection of v on v . therefore |v|^2 = square of length of v ?
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 19 at 14:37
















  • $begingroup$
    Okay, I see. Clearly something is off here, I'm not able to pinpoint where however. By my defination a.b = length of b*(the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b ), then if v= a = b, then length of v = length of projection of v on v . therefore |v|^2 = square of length of v ?
    $endgroup$
    – Vrisk
    Mar 19 at 14:37















$begingroup$
Okay, I see. Clearly something is off here, I'm not able to pinpoint where however. By my defination a.b = length of b*(the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b ), then if v= a = b, then length of v = length of projection of v on v . therefore |v|^2 = square of length of v ?
$endgroup$
– Vrisk
Mar 19 at 14:37




$begingroup$
Okay, I see. Clearly something is off here, I'm not able to pinpoint where however. By my defination a.b = length of b*(the length projection of(say) a on b made by an oblique line from a on b ), then if v= a = b, then length of v = length of projection of v on v . therefore |v|^2 = square of length of v ?
$endgroup$
– Vrisk
Mar 19 at 14:37

















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Kathakali Contents Etymology and nomenclature History Repertoire Songs and musical instruments Traditional plays Styles: Sampradayam Training centers and awards Relationship to other dance forms See also Notes References External links Navigation menueThe Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-MSouth Asian Folklore: An EncyclopediaRoutledge International Encyclopedia of Women: Global Women's Issues and KnowledgeKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlayKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlayKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play10.1353/atj.2005.0004The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-MEncyclopedia of HinduismKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlaySonic Liturgy: Ritual and Music in Hindu Tradition"The Mirror of Gesture"Kathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play"Kathakali"Indian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceMedieval Indian Literature: An AnthologyThe Oxford Companion to Indian TheatreSouth Asian Folklore: An Encyclopedia : Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri LankaThe Rise of Performance Studies: Rethinking Richard Schechner's Broad SpectrumIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceModern Asian Theatre and Performance 1900-2000Critical Theory and PerformanceBetween Theater and AnthropologyKathakali603847011Indian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceBetween Theater and AnthropologyBetween Theater and AnthropologyNambeesan Smaraka AwardsArchivedThe Cambridge Guide to TheatreRoutledge International Encyclopedia of Women: Global Women's Issues and KnowledgeThe Garland Encyclopedia of World Music: South Asia : the Indian subcontinentThe Ethos of Noh: Actors and Their Art10.2307/1145740By Means of Performance: Intercultural Studies of Theatre and Ritual10.1017/s204912550000100xReconceiving the Renaissance: A Critical ReaderPerformance TheoryListening to Theatre: The Aural Dimension of Beijing Opera10.2307/1146013Kathakali: The Art of the Non-WorldlyOn KathakaliKathakali, the dance theatreThe Kathakali Complex: Performance & StructureKathakali Dance-Drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play10.1093/obo/9780195399318-0071Drama and Ritual of Early Hinduism"In the Shadow of Hollywood Orientalism: Authentic East Indian Dancing"10.1080/08949460490274013Sanskrit Play Production in Ancient IndiaIndian Music: History and StructureBharata, the Nāṭyaśāstra233639306Table of Contents2238067286469807Dance In Indian Painting10.2307/32047833204783Kathakali Dance-Theatre: A Visual Narrative of Sacred Indian MimeIndian Classical Dance: The Renaissance and BeyondKathakali: an indigenous art-form of Keralaeee

Method to test if a number is a perfect power? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Detecting perfect squares faster than by extracting square rooteffective way to get the integer sequence A181392 from oeisA rarely mentioned fact about perfect powersHow many numbers such $n$ are there that $n<100,lfloorsqrtn rfloor mid n$Check perfect squareness by modulo division against multiple basesFor what pair of integers $(a,b)$ is $3^a + 7^b$ a perfect square.Do there exist any positive integers $n$ such that $lfloore^nrfloor$ is a perfect power? What is the probability that one exists?finding perfect power factors of an integerProve that the sequence contains a perfect square for any natural number $m $ in the domain of $f$ .Counting Perfect Powers