Is there a logarithm base for which the logarithm becomes an identity function?Why must the base of a logarithm be a positive real number not equal to 1?How to determine periodicity of complex log in different bases?Problems simplifying logarithmic expressionsLogarithm base transformationIs the natural logarithm actually unique as a multiplier?Integral of $b[x]^l[x] = p[x]$Intuition behind logarithm change of baseThe base of a logarithmUnderlying Reason For Taking Log Base 10Logarithm IdentityGeometric interpretation of the Logarithm (in $mathbbR$)

Smooth vector fields on a surface modulo diffeomorphisms

Are small insurances worth it?

What is the "determinant" of two vectors?

Why is it common in European airports not to display the gate for flights until around 45-90 minutes before departure, unlike other places?

Why is there an extra space when I type "ls" on the Desktop?

Under what conditions can the right to remain silent be revoked in the USA?

Is divide-by-zero a security vulnerability?

Is this Paypal Github SDK reference really a dangerous site?

What is this tube in a jet engine's air intake?

Origin of the word “pushka”

What do you call someone who likes to pick fights?

If nine coins are tossed, what is the probability that the number of heads is even?

If sound is a longitudinal wave, why can we hear it if our ears aren't aligned with the propagation direction?

I am the person who abides by rules, but breaks the rules. Who am I?

Would those living in a "perfect society" not understand satire

Professor forcing me to attend a conference, I can't afford even with 50% funding

Locked Away- What am I?

Giving a career talk in my old university, how prominently should I tell students my salary?

Did Amazon pay $0 in taxes last year?

Does an unused member variable take up memory?

Why do phishing e-mails use faked e-mail addresses instead of the real one?

Do Cubics always have one real root?

What should I do when a paper is published similar to my PhD thesis without citation?

I reported the illegal activity of my boss to his boss. My boss found out. Now I am being punished. What should I do?



Is there a logarithm base for which the logarithm becomes an identity function?


Why must the base of a logarithm be a positive real number not equal to 1?How to determine periodicity of complex log in different bases?Problems simplifying logarithmic expressionsLogarithm base transformationIs the natural logarithm actually unique as a multiplier?Integral of $b[x]^l[x] = p[x]$Intuition behind logarithm change of baseThe base of a logarithmUnderlying Reason For Taking Log Base 10Logarithm IdentityGeometric interpretation of the Logarithm (in $mathbbR$)













8












$begingroup$


Is there a base $b$ such that:



$$log_b x = x $$



(The only one that comes to mind would be the invalid case of $log_1 1 = 1 $.)



I'm fairly certain the answer is no, but I can't find a clear justification for it.



(I don't have a strong mathematical background so an answer with the intuition would be much more helpful than any complex theorem proof.)










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
    $endgroup$
    – Nij
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – schomatis
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
    $endgroup$
    – user76284
    5 hours ago















8












$begingroup$


Is there a base $b$ such that:



$$log_b x = x $$



(The only one that comes to mind would be the invalid case of $log_1 1 = 1 $.)



I'm fairly certain the answer is no, but I can't find a clear justification for it.



(I don't have a strong mathematical background so an answer with the intuition would be much more helpful than any complex theorem proof.)










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
    $endgroup$
    – Nij
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – schomatis
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
    $endgroup$
    – user76284
    5 hours ago













8












8








8


2



$begingroup$


Is there a base $b$ such that:



$$log_b x = x $$



(The only one that comes to mind would be the invalid case of $log_1 1 = 1 $.)



I'm fairly certain the answer is no, but I can't find a clear justification for it.



(I don't have a strong mathematical background so an answer with the intuition would be much more helpful than any complex theorem proof.)










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Is there a base $b$ such that:



$$log_b x = x $$



(The only one that comes to mind would be the invalid case of $log_1 1 = 1 $.)



I'm fairly certain the answer is no, but I can't find a clear justification for it.



(I don't have a strong mathematical background so an answer with the intuition would be much more helpful than any complex theorem proof.)







logarithms






share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited yesterday







schomatis













New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked yesterday









schomatisschomatis

857




857




New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
    $endgroup$
    – Nij
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – schomatis
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
    $endgroup$
    – user76284
    5 hours ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
    $endgroup$
    – Nij
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – schomatis
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
    $endgroup$
    – user76284
    5 hours ago







2




2




$begingroup$
The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
$endgroup$
– Nij
yesterday




$begingroup$
The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
$endgroup$
– Nij
yesterday












$begingroup$
Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
$endgroup$
– schomatis
yesterday




$begingroup$
Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
$endgroup$
– schomatis
yesterday












$begingroup$
Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
$endgroup$
– user76284
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
$endgroup$
– user76284
5 hours ago










7 Answers
7






active

oldest

votes


















37












$begingroup$

For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
$log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    14












    $begingroup$

    Note that
    $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]x.$$
    Since $sqrt[x]x$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



    But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt2$ and we have
    $$log_sqrt22=2.$$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$




















      7












      $begingroup$

      No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
      $$
      log_b x = C ln x
      $$

      If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$












      • $begingroup$
        If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
        $endgroup$
        – Adam
        15 hours ago







      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
        $endgroup$
        – R..
        9 hours ago


















      5












      $begingroup$

      If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



      $(b^k)^m = b^km= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



      ....



      Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



      Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$




















        4












        $begingroup$

        In general
        $$log_b a=c$$
        is the same as
        $$b^c=a$$
        so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
        $$b^x=x$$






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$




















          3












          $begingroup$

          I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



          First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



          $$ b^x=x $$



          In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



          An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



          $$ b^x+1 = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



          so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



          I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



          As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.






          share|cite|improve this answer








          New contributor




          schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$




















            1












            $begingroup$

            Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



            Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=fraclog_b x_2-log_b x_1x_2-x_1=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b fracx_2x_1 rightarrow fracx_2x_1=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac43=b, frac54=b$).






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
              $endgroup$
              – Henning Makholm
              yesterday






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
              $endgroup$
              – Vasya
              yesterday










            • $begingroup$
              $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
              $endgroup$
              – Henning Makholm
              yesterday







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
              $endgroup$
              – Vasya
              yesterday






            • 2




              $begingroup$
              The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
              $endgroup$
              – Henning Makholm
              21 hours ago











            Your Answer





            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
            );
            );
            , "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "69"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );






            schomatis is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3140581%2fis-there-a-logarithm-base-for-which-the-logarithm-becomes-an-identity-function%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            7 Answers
            7






            active

            oldest

            votes








            7 Answers
            7






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            37












            $begingroup$

            For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
            $log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
            If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$

















              37












              $begingroup$

              For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
              $log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
              If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$















                37












                37








                37





                $begingroup$

                For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
                $log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
                If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
                $log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
                If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered yesterday









                FredHFredH

                1,473713




                1,473713





















                    14












                    $begingroup$

                    Note that
                    $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]x.$$
                    Since $sqrt[x]x$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



                    But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt2$ and we have
                    $$log_sqrt22=2.$$






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$

















                      14












                      $begingroup$

                      Note that
                      $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]x.$$
                      Since $sqrt[x]x$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



                      But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt2$ and we have
                      $$log_sqrt22=2.$$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$















                        14












                        14








                        14





                        $begingroup$

                        Note that
                        $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]x.$$
                        Since $sqrt[x]x$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



                        But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt2$ and we have
                        $$log_sqrt22=2.$$






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$



                        Note that
                        $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]x.$$
                        Since $sqrt[x]x$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



                        But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt2$ and we have
                        $$log_sqrt22=2.$$







                        share|cite|improve this answer












                        share|cite|improve this answer



                        share|cite|improve this answer










                        answered yesterday









                        Eclipse SunEclipse Sun

                        7,8101438




                        7,8101438





















                            7












                            $begingroup$

                            No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
                            $$
                            log_b x = C ln x
                            $$

                            If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$












                            • $begingroup$
                              If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                              $endgroup$
                              – Adam
                              15 hours ago







                            • 1




                              $begingroup$
                              Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – R..
                              9 hours ago















                            7












                            $begingroup$

                            No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
                            $$
                            log_b x = C ln x
                            $$

                            If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$












                            • $begingroup$
                              If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                              $endgroup$
                              – Adam
                              15 hours ago







                            • 1




                              $begingroup$
                              Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – R..
                              9 hours ago













                            7












                            7








                            7





                            $begingroup$

                            No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
                            $$
                            log_b x = C ln x
                            $$

                            If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
                            $$
                            log_b x = C ln x
                            $$

                            If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.







                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            edited 15 hours ago

























                            answered yesterday









                            enedilenedil

                            1,444620




                            1,444620











                            • $begingroup$
                              If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                              $endgroup$
                              – Adam
                              15 hours ago







                            • 1




                              $begingroup$
                              Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – R..
                              9 hours ago
















                            • $begingroup$
                              If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                              $endgroup$
                              – Adam
                              15 hours ago







                            • 1




                              $begingroup$
                              Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – R..
                              9 hours ago















                            $begingroup$
                            If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                            $endgroup$
                            – Adam
                            15 hours ago





                            $begingroup$
                            If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                            $endgroup$
                            – Adam
                            15 hours ago





                            1




                            1




                            $begingroup$
                            Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                            $endgroup$
                            – R..
                            9 hours ago




                            $begingroup$
                            Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                            $endgroup$
                            – R..
                            9 hours ago











                            5












                            $begingroup$

                            If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



                            $(b^k)^m = b^km= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



                            ....



                            Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



                            Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$

















                              5












                              $begingroup$

                              If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



                              $(b^k)^m = b^km= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



                              ....



                              Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



                              Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$






                              share|cite|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$















                                5












                                5








                                5





                                $begingroup$

                                If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



                                $(b^k)^m = b^km= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



                                ....



                                Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



                                Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$






                                share|cite|improve this answer











                                $endgroup$



                                If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



                                $(b^k)^m = b^km= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



                                ....



                                Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



                                Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$







                                share|cite|improve this answer














                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                edited yesterday

























                                answered yesterday









                                fleabloodfleablood

                                72k22687




                                72k22687





















                                    4












                                    $begingroup$

                                    In general
                                    $$log_b a=c$$
                                    is the same as
                                    $$b^c=a$$
                                    so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
                                    $$b^x=x$$






                                    share|cite|improve this answer









                                    $endgroup$

















                                      4












                                      $begingroup$

                                      In general
                                      $$log_b a=c$$
                                      is the same as
                                      $$b^c=a$$
                                      so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
                                      $$b^x=x$$






                                      share|cite|improve this answer









                                      $endgroup$















                                        4












                                        4








                                        4





                                        $begingroup$

                                        In general
                                        $$log_b a=c$$
                                        is the same as
                                        $$b^c=a$$
                                        so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
                                        $$b^x=x$$






                                        share|cite|improve this answer









                                        $endgroup$



                                        In general
                                        $$log_b a=c$$
                                        is the same as
                                        $$b^c=a$$
                                        so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
                                        $$b^x=x$$







                                        share|cite|improve this answer












                                        share|cite|improve this answer



                                        share|cite|improve this answer










                                        answered yesterday









                                        Martin HansenMartin Hansen

                                        22313




                                        22313





















                                            3












                                            $begingroup$

                                            I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



                                            First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



                                            $$ b^x=x $$



                                            In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



                                            An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



                                            $$ b^x+1 = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



                                            so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



                                            I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



                                            As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.






                                            share|cite|improve this answer








                                            New contributor




                                            schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                            Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                            $endgroup$

















                                              3












                                              $begingroup$

                                              I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



                                              First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



                                              $$ b^x=x $$



                                              In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



                                              An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



                                              $$ b^x+1 = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



                                              so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



                                              I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



                                              As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.






                                              share|cite|improve this answer








                                              New contributor




                                              schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                              $endgroup$















                                                3












                                                3








                                                3





                                                $begingroup$

                                                I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



                                                First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



                                                $$ b^x=x $$



                                                In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



                                                An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



                                                $$ b^x+1 = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



                                                so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



                                                I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



                                                As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.






                                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                                New contributor




                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                                $endgroup$



                                                I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



                                                First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



                                                $$ b^x=x $$



                                                In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



                                                An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



                                                $$ b^x+1 = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



                                                so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



                                                I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



                                                As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.







                                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                                New contributor




                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                                share|cite|improve this answer






                                                New contributor




                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                                answered yesterday









                                                schomatisschomatis

                                                857




                                                857




                                                New contributor




                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                                New contributor





                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                                                    1












                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



                                                    Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=fraclog_b x_2-log_b x_1x_2-x_1=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b fracx_2x_1 rightarrow fracx_2x_1=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac43=b, frac54=b$).






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                                    $endgroup$








                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 1




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday










                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday







                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      21 hours ago
















                                                    1












                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



                                                    Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=fraclog_b x_2-log_b x_1x_2-x_1=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b fracx_2x_1 rightarrow fracx_2x_1=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac43=b, frac54=b$).






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                                    $endgroup$








                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 1




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday










                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday







                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      21 hours ago














                                                    1












                                                    1








                                                    1





                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



                                                    Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=fraclog_b x_2-log_b x_1x_2-x_1=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b fracx_2x_1 rightarrow fracx_2x_1=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac43=b, frac54=b$).






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                                    $endgroup$



                                                    Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



                                                    Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=fraclog_b x_2-log_b x_1x_2-x_1=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b fracx_2x_1 rightarrow fracx_2x_1=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac43=b, frac54=b$).







                                                    share|cite|improve this answer














                                                    share|cite|improve this answer



                                                    share|cite|improve this answer








                                                    edited 17 hours ago

























                                                    answered yesterday









                                                    VasyaVasya

                                                    4,0381618




                                                    4,0381618







                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 1




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday










                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday







                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      21 hours ago













                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 1




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday










                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday







                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      21 hours ago








                                                    2




                                                    2




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    yesterday




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    yesterday




                                                    1




                                                    1




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Vasya
                                                    yesterday




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Vasya
                                                    yesterday












                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    yesterday





                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    yesterday





                                                    2




                                                    2




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Vasya
                                                    yesterday




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Vasya
                                                    yesterday




                                                    2




                                                    2




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    21 hours ago





                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    21 hours ago











                                                    schomatis is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                                                    draft saved

                                                    draft discarded


















                                                    schomatis is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                                                    schomatis is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                                                    schomatis is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                                                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                                                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                                    But avoid


                                                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                                    draft saved


                                                    draft discarded














                                                    StackExchange.ready(
                                                    function ()
                                                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3140581%2fis-there-a-logarithm-base-for-which-the-logarithm-becomes-an-identity-function%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                                    );

                                                    Post as a guest















                                                    Required, but never shown





















































                                                    Required, but never shown














                                                    Required, but never shown












                                                    Required, but never shown







                                                    Required, but never shown

































                                                    Required, but never shown














                                                    Required, but never shown












                                                    Required, but never shown







                                                    Required, but never shown







                                                    Popular posts from this blog

                                                    Lowndes Grove History Architecture References Navigation menu32°48′6″N 79°57′58″W / 32.80167°N 79.96611°W / 32.80167; -79.9661132°48′6″N 79°57′58″W / 32.80167°N 79.96611°W / 32.80167; -79.9661178002500"National Register Information System"Historic houses of South Carolina"Lowndes Grove""+32° 48' 6.00", −79° 57' 58.00""Lowndes Grove, Charleston County (260 St. Margaret St., Charleston)""Lowndes Grove"The Charleston ExpositionIt Happened in South Carolina"Lowndes Grove (House), Saint Margaret Street & Sixth Avenue, Charleston, Charleston County, SC(Photographs)"Plantations of the Carolina Low Countrye

                                                    random experiment with two different functions on unit interval Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Random variable and probability space notionsRandom Walk with EdgesFinding functions where the increase over a random interval is Poisson distributedNumber of days until dayCan an observed event in fact be of zero probability?Unit random processmodels of coins and uniform distributionHow to get the number of successes given $n$ trials , probability $P$ and a random variable $X$Absorbing Markov chain in a computer. Is “almost every” turned into always convergence in computer executions?Stopped random walk is not uniformly integrable

                                                    How should I support this large drywall patch? Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?How do I cover large gaps in drywall?How do I keep drywall around a patch from crumbling?Can I glue a second layer of drywall?How to patch long strip on drywall?Large drywall patch: how to avoid bulging seams?Drywall Mesh Patch vs. Bulge? To remove or not to remove?How to fix this drywall job?Prep drywall before backsplashWhat's the best way to fix this horrible drywall patch job?Drywall patching using 3M Patch Plus Primer