How to calculate the envelope of the trajectory of a double pendulum?Double pendulum probability distributionLagrangian equations on Double Pendulum (Potential and kinetic Energy of double pendulum)Calculating a double pendulumIs this divergence-free? (Double Pendulum)Double Pendulum CuspinessHow does one calculate a re-bounce sling shot trajectory such a Juno?Finding the Equations of Motion in a Classical Mechanics ProblemArnold DiffusionDouble pendulum lagrangianIs there a proof that the double pendulum path reaches every point in a closed region eventually?Periodic solutions of the double pendulum
How to educate team mate to take screenshots for bugs with out unwanted stuff
Converting from "matrix" data into "coordinate" data
Are these two graphs isomorphic? Why/Why not?
Will expression retain the same definition if particle is changed?
Professor forcing me to attend a conference, I can't afford even with 50% funding
Too soon for a plot twist?
Strange opamp's output impedance in spice
How to install round brake pads
How do you make a gun that shoots melee weapons and/or swords?
Giving a career talk in my old university, how prominently should I tell students my salary?
Under what conditions can the right to remain silent be revoked in the USA?
What should I do when a paper is published similar to my PhD thesis without citation?
Use Mercury as quenching liquid for swords?
Which country has more?
Why restrict private health insurance?
If sound is a longitudinal wave, why can we hear it if our ears aren't aligned with the propagation direction?
When an outsider describes family relationships, which point of view are they using?
What does *dead* mean in *What do you mean, dead?*?
Translation of 答えを知っている人はいませんでした
Can one live in the U.S. and not use a credit card?
Why aren't there more Gauls like Obelix?
Traveling to heavily polluted city, what practical measures can I take to minimize impact?
What is this tube in a jet engine's air intake?
Are small insurances worth it?
How to calculate the envelope of the trajectory of a double pendulum?
Double pendulum probability distributionLagrangian equations on Double Pendulum (Potential and kinetic Energy of double pendulum)Calculating a double pendulumIs this divergence-free? (Double Pendulum)Double Pendulum CuspinessHow does one calculate a re-bounce sling shot trajectory such a Juno?Finding the Equations of Motion in a Classical Mechanics ProblemArnold DiffusionDouble pendulum lagrangianIs there a proof that the double pendulum path reaches every point in a closed region eventually?Periodic solutions of the double pendulum
$begingroup$
Consider a double pendulum:
Background
For the angles $varphi_i$ and the momenta $p_i$ we have (with equal lengths $l=1$, masses $m=1$ and gravitational constant $g=1$):
$dotvarphi_1 = 6frac2p_1 - 3p_2cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)16 - 9cos^2(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$dotvarphi_2 = 6frac8p_2 - 3p_1cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)16 - 9cos^2(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$dotp_1 = -frac12big( dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2 sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2) +3sin(varphi_1) big)$
$dotp_2 = -frac12big( -dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2 sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2) +sin(varphi_1) big)$
To see the relations more clearly:
$dotvarphi_1 = B(2p_1 + Ap_2)$
$dotvarphi_2 = B(8p_2 + Ap_1)$
$dotp_1 = -C + 3D$
$dotp_2 = +C + D $
with
$A = -3cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$B = 6/(16 - A^2)$
$C = dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2)/2$
$D = -sin(varphi_1)/2$
Observations
With initial angles $varphi_1^0 = varphi_2^0 = 0$ and different combinations of small values for $p_1^0$, $p_2^0$ a number of intriguiung patterns can be observed when plotting the tractory of the tip of the pendulum:
$p_1^0 = 1$, $p_2^0 = 1$
- $p_1^0 = 1, p_2^0 = -1$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 1$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 2$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 3$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 3.7$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 4$
What these patterns have in common: The tip of the pendulum draws a curve which more or less slowly "fills" an area enclosed by a specific envelope, intermediately exhibiting seemingly regular patterns which inevitably eventually vanish.
Questions
Can the envelope be given in closed form, depending only on the two parameters $p_1^0, p_2^0$?
Can the positions of the two inner cusps which can be seen clearly for $p_1=0$, $p_2=2,3$ be given in closed form, depending only on the two parameters $p_1^0, p_2^0$?
[The envelope for $p_1^0=0, p_2^0 = 1,2,dots$ looks like a canoe whose bow and stern bend to each other, eventually amalgamating. Can anyone guess what's the explicit formula for this shape?]
ordinary-differential-equations mathematical-physics classical-mechanics ergodic-theory chaos-theory
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider a double pendulum:
Background
For the angles $varphi_i$ and the momenta $p_i$ we have (with equal lengths $l=1$, masses $m=1$ and gravitational constant $g=1$):
$dotvarphi_1 = 6frac2p_1 - 3p_2cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)16 - 9cos^2(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$dotvarphi_2 = 6frac8p_2 - 3p_1cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)16 - 9cos^2(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$dotp_1 = -frac12big( dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2 sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2) +3sin(varphi_1) big)$
$dotp_2 = -frac12big( -dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2 sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2) +sin(varphi_1) big)$
To see the relations more clearly:
$dotvarphi_1 = B(2p_1 + Ap_2)$
$dotvarphi_2 = B(8p_2 + Ap_1)$
$dotp_1 = -C + 3D$
$dotp_2 = +C + D $
with
$A = -3cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$B = 6/(16 - A^2)$
$C = dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2)/2$
$D = -sin(varphi_1)/2$
Observations
With initial angles $varphi_1^0 = varphi_2^0 = 0$ and different combinations of small values for $p_1^0$, $p_2^0$ a number of intriguiung patterns can be observed when plotting the tractory of the tip of the pendulum:
$p_1^0 = 1$, $p_2^0 = 1$
- $p_1^0 = 1, p_2^0 = -1$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 1$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 2$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 3$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 3.7$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 4$
What these patterns have in common: The tip of the pendulum draws a curve which more or less slowly "fills" an area enclosed by a specific envelope, intermediately exhibiting seemingly regular patterns which inevitably eventually vanish.
Questions
Can the envelope be given in closed form, depending only on the two parameters $p_1^0, p_2^0$?
Can the positions of the two inner cusps which can be seen clearly for $p_1=0$, $p_2=2,3$ be given in closed form, depending only on the two parameters $p_1^0, p_2^0$?
[The envelope for $p_1^0=0, p_2^0 = 1,2,dots$ looks like a canoe whose bow and stern bend to each other, eventually amalgamating. Can anyone guess what's the explicit formula for this shape?]
ordinary-differential-equations mathematical-physics classical-mechanics ergodic-theory chaos-theory
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Upvoted just for the animations - how did you do them? Also, the paths have cusps at the ends so they are not smooth everywhere.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
Oct 25 '18 at 13:34
1
$begingroup$
I should give credit to travisdoesmath who uses d3.js and Runge-Kutta.
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 13:39
1
$begingroup$
The phase space $(phi_1,phi_2,p_1,p_2)$ is 4-dimensional, and the total energy and the angular momentum about the fixed pivot are conserved over time. These two constraints determine a 2-dimensional slice of the phase space for any given set of initial conditions. Presumably, the projection of this abstract 2-dimensional set of states to physical space gives the desired envelope.
$endgroup$
– Rahul
Oct 25 '18 at 13:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider a double pendulum:
Background
For the angles $varphi_i$ and the momenta $p_i$ we have (with equal lengths $l=1$, masses $m=1$ and gravitational constant $g=1$):
$dotvarphi_1 = 6frac2p_1 - 3p_2cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)16 - 9cos^2(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$dotvarphi_2 = 6frac8p_2 - 3p_1cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)16 - 9cos^2(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$dotp_1 = -frac12big( dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2 sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2) +3sin(varphi_1) big)$
$dotp_2 = -frac12big( -dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2 sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2) +sin(varphi_1) big)$
To see the relations more clearly:
$dotvarphi_1 = B(2p_1 + Ap_2)$
$dotvarphi_2 = B(8p_2 + Ap_1)$
$dotp_1 = -C + 3D$
$dotp_2 = +C + D $
with
$A = -3cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$B = 6/(16 - A^2)$
$C = dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2)/2$
$D = -sin(varphi_1)/2$
Observations
With initial angles $varphi_1^0 = varphi_2^0 = 0$ and different combinations of small values for $p_1^0$, $p_2^0$ a number of intriguiung patterns can be observed when plotting the tractory of the tip of the pendulum:
$p_1^0 = 1$, $p_2^0 = 1$
- $p_1^0 = 1, p_2^0 = -1$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 1$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 2$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 3$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 3.7$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 4$
What these patterns have in common: The tip of the pendulum draws a curve which more or less slowly "fills" an area enclosed by a specific envelope, intermediately exhibiting seemingly regular patterns which inevitably eventually vanish.
Questions
Can the envelope be given in closed form, depending only on the two parameters $p_1^0, p_2^0$?
Can the positions of the two inner cusps which can be seen clearly for $p_1=0$, $p_2=2,3$ be given in closed form, depending only on the two parameters $p_1^0, p_2^0$?
[The envelope for $p_1^0=0, p_2^0 = 1,2,dots$ looks like a canoe whose bow and stern bend to each other, eventually amalgamating. Can anyone guess what's the explicit formula for this shape?]
ordinary-differential-equations mathematical-physics classical-mechanics ergodic-theory chaos-theory
$endgroup$
Consider a double pendulum:
Background
For the angles $varphi_i$ and the momenta $p_i$ we have (with equal lengths $l=1$, masses $m=1$ and gravitational constant $g=1$):
$dotvarphi_1 = 6frac2p_1 - 3p_2cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)16 - 9cos^2(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$dotvarphi_2 = 6frac8p_2 - 3p_1cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)16 - 9cos^2(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$dotp_1 = -frac12big( dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2 sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2) +3sin(varphi_1) big)$
$dotp_2 = -frac12big( -dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2 sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2) +sin(varphi_1) big)$
To see the relations more clearly:
$dotvarphi_1 = B(2p_1 + Ap_2)$
$dotvarphi_2 = B(8p_2 + Ap_1)$
$dotp_1 = -C + 3D$
$dotp_2 = +C + D $
with
$A = -3cos(varphi_1 - varphi_2)$
$B = 6/(16 - A^2)$
$C = dotvarphi_1dotvarphi_2sin(varphi_1 - varphi_2)/2$
$D = -sin(varphi_1)/2$
Observations
With initial angles $varphi_1^0 = varphi_2^0 = 0$ and different combinations of small values for $p_1^0$, $p_2^0$ a number of intriguiung patterns can be observed when plotting the tractory of the tip of the pendulum:
$p_1^0 = 1$, $p_2^0 = 1$
- $p_1^0 = 1, p_2^0 = -1$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 1$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 2$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 3$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 3.7$
$p_1^0 = 0$, $p_2^0 = 4$
What these patterns have in common: The tip of the pendulum draws a curve which more or less slowly "fills" an area enclosed by a specific envelope, intermediately exhibiting seemingly regular patterns which inevitably eventually vanish.
Questions
Can the envelope be given in closed form, depending only on the two parameters $p_1^0, p_2^0$?
Can the positions of the two inner cusps which can be seen clearly for $p_1=0$, $p_2=2,3$ be given in closed form, depending only on the two parameters $p_1^0, p_2^0$?
[The envelope for $p_1^0=0, p_2^0 = 1,2,dots$ looks like a canoe whose bow and stern bend to each other, eventually amalgamating. Can anyone guess what's the explicit formula for this shape?]
ordinary-differential-equations mathematical-physics classical-mechanics ergodic-theory chaos-theory
ordinary-differential-equations mathematical-physics classical-mechanics ergodic-theory chaos-theory
edited yesterday
Andrews
1,2641320
1,2641320
asked Oct 25 '18 at 13:14
Hans StrickerHans Stricker
6,47943994
6,47943994
$begingroup$
Upvoted just for the animations - how did you do them? Also, the paths have cusps at the ends so they are not smooth everywhere.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
Oct 25 '18 at 13:34
1
$begingroup$
I should give credit to travisdoesmath who uses d3.js and Runge-Kutta.
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 13:39
1
$begingroup$
The phase space $(phi_1,phi_2,p_1,p_2)$ is 4-dimensional, and the total energy and the angular momentum about the fixed pivot are conserved over time. These two constraints determine a 2-dimensional slice of the phase space for any given set of initial conditions. Presumably, the projection of this abstract 2-dimensional set of states to physical space gives the desired envelope.
$endgroup$
– Rahul
Oct 25 '18 at 13:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Upvoted just for the animations - how did you do them? Also, the paths have cusps at the ends so they are not smooth everywhere.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
Oct 25 '18 at 13:34
1
$begingroup$
I should give credit to travisdoesmath who uses d3.js and Runge-Kutta.
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 13:39
1
$begingroup$
The phase space $(phi_1,phi_2,p_1,p_2)$ is 4-dimensional, and the total energy and the angular momentum about the fixed pivot are conserved over time. These two constraints determine a 2-dimensional slice of the phase space for any given set of initial conditions. Presumably, the projection of this abstract 2-dimensional set of states to physical space gives the desired envelope.
$endgroup$
– Rahul
Oct 25 '18 at 13:45
$begingroup$
Upvoted just for the animations - how did you do them? Also, the paths have cusps at the ends so they are not smooth everywhere.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
Oct 25 '18 at 13:34
$begingroup$
Upvoted just for the animations - how did you do them? Also, the paths have cusps at the ends so they are not smooth everywhere.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
Oct 25 '18 at 13:34
1
1
$begingroup$
I should give credit to travisdoesmath who uses d3.js and Runge-Kutta.
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 13:39
$begingroup$
I should give credit to travisdoesmath who uses d3.js and Runge-Kutta.
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 13:39
1
1
$begingroup$
The phase space $(phi_1,phi_2,p_1,p_2)$ is 4-dimensional, and the total energy and the angular momentum about the fixed pivot are conserved over time. These two constraints determine a 2-dimensional slice of the phase space for any given set of initial conditions. Presumably, the projection of this abstract 2-dimensional set of states to physical space gives the desired envelope.
$endgroup$
– Rahul
Oct 25 '18 at 13:45
$begingroup$
The phase space $(phi_1,phi_2,p_1,p_2)$ is 4-dimensional, and the total energy and the angular momentum about the fixed pivot are conserved over time. These two constraints determine a 2-dimensional slice of the phase space for any given set of initial conditions. Presumably, the projection of this abstract 2-dimensional set of states to physical space gives the desired envelope.
$endgroup$
– Rahul
Oct 25 '18 at 13:45
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
This is not a complete or rigorous answer, but it should point you in the right direction.
The double pendulum is a Hamiltonian system; energy is conserved. The most extreme points of the trajectory occur when both legs are at standstill ($p_1=p_2=0$) as all the energy is positional. The points where this is the case can be computed as parametrised curves as follows.
- The parameter of your curve is the angle of excitation of the first pendulum ($φ_1$).
- For each $φ_1$, you can calculate the two angles of the inner pendulum ($φ_2$) such that the potential energy of the system corresponds to your total energy.
- From both angles ($φ_1$ and $φ_2$) obtain the position of the inner pendulums end as the point of your curve.
I would conjecture that the outermost of the two curves is the envelope in case of a chaotic dynamics such as your last example.
If the double pendulum is ergodic, the above follows, as all points on the proposed envelope have the same energy and thus have to be visited.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks! Do you think this approach will eventually give rise to a closed formula for the envelope with $p_1^0$ and $p_2^0$ as parameters?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 14:42
$begingroup$
@HansStricker: I consider it likely. It certainly can’t hurt to calculate the proposed curve and compare it with your simulation results.
$endgroup$
– Wrzlprmft
Oct 26 '18 at 6:03
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2970573%2fhow-to-calculate-the-envelope-of-the-trajectory-of-a-double-pendulum%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
This is not a complete or rigorous answer, but it should point you in the right direction.
The double pendulum is a Hamiltonian system; energy is conserved. The most extreme points of the trajectory occur when both legs are at standstill ($p_1=p_2=0$) as all the energy is positional. The points where this is the case can be computed as parametrised curves as follows.
- The parameter of your curve is the angle of excitation of the first pendulum ($φ_1$).
- For each $φ_1$, you can calculate the two angles of the inner pendulum ($φ_2$) such that the potential energy of the system corresponds to your total energy.
- From both angles ($φ_1$ and $φ_2$) obtain the position of the inner pendulums end as the point of your curve.
I would conjecture that the outermost of the two curves is the envelope in case of a chaotic dynamics such as your last example.
If the double pendulum is ergodic, the above follows, as all points on the proposed envelope have the same energy and thus have to be visited.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks! Do you think this approach will eventually give rise to a closed formula for the envelope with $p_1^0$ and $p_2^0$ as parameters?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 14:42
$begingroup$
@HansStricker: I consider it likely. It certainly can’t hurt to calculate the proposed curve and compare it with your simulation results.
$endgroup$
– Wrzlprmft
Oct 26 '18 at 6:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is not a complete or rigorous answer, but it should point you in the right direction.
The double pendulum is a Hamiltonian system; energy is conserved. The most extreme points of the trajectory occur when both legs are at standstill ($p_1=p_2=0$) as all the energy is positional. The points where this is the case can be computed as parametrised curves as follows.
- The parameter of your curve is the angle of excitation of the first pendulum ($φ_1$).
- For each $φ_1$, you can calculate the two angles of the inner pendulum ($φ_2$) such that the potential energy of the system corresponds to your total energy.
- From both angles ($φ_1$ and $φ_2$) obtain the position of the inner pendulums end as the point of your curve.
I would conjecture that the outermost of the two curves is the envelope in case of a chaotic dynamics such as your last example.
If the double pendulum is ergodic, the above follows, as all points on the proposed envelope have the same energy and thus have to be visited.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks! Do you think this approach will eventually give rise to a closed formula for the envelope with $p_1^0$ and $p_2^0$ as parameters?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 14:42
$begingroup$
@HansStricker: I consider it likely. It certainly can’t hurt to calculate the proposed curve and compare it with your simulation results.
$endgroup$
– Wrzlprmft
Oct 26 '18 at 6:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is not a complete or rigorous answer, but it should point you in the right direction.
The double pendulum is a Hamiltonian system; energy is conserved. The most extreme points of the trajectory occur when both legs are at standstill ($p_1=p_2=0$) as all the energy is positional. The points where this is the case can be computed as parametrised curves as follows.
- The parameter of your curve is the angle of excitation of the first pendulum ($φ_1$).
- For each $φ_1$, you can calculate the two angles of the inner pendulum ($φ_2$) such that the potential energy of the system corresponds to your total energy.
- From both angles ($φ_1$ and $φ_2$) obtain the position of the inner pendulums end as the point of your curve.
I would conjecture that the outermost of the two curves is the envelope in case of a chaotic dynamics such as your last example.
If the double pendulum is ergodic, the above follows, as all points on the proposed envelope have the same energy and thus have to be visited.
$endgroup$
This is not a complete or rigorous answer, but it should point you in the right direction.
The double pendulum is a Hamiltonian system; energy is conserved. The most extreme points of the trajectory occur when both legs are at standstill ($p_1=p_2=0$) as all the energy is positional. The points where this is the case can be computed as parametrised curves as follows.
- The parameter of your curve is the angle of excitation of the first pendulum ($φ_1$).
- For each $φ_1$, you can calculate the two angles of the inner pendulum ($φ_2$) such that the potential energy of the system corresponds to your total energy.
- From both angles ($φ_1$ and $φ_2$) obtain the position of the inner pendulums end as the point of your curve.
I would conjecture that the outermost of the two curves is the envelope in case of a chaotic dynamics such as your last example.
If the double pendulum is ergodic, the above follows, as all points on the proposed envelope have the same energy and thus have to be visited.
answered Oct 25 '18 at 13:57
WrzlprmftWrzlprmft
3,14111335
3,14111335
$begingroup$
Thanks! Do you think this approach will eventually give rise to a closed formula for the envelope with $p_1^0$ and $p_2^0$ as parameters?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 14:42
$begingroup$
@HansStricker: I consider it likely. It certainly can’t hurt to calculate the proposed curve and compare it with your simulation results.
$endgroup$
– Wrzlprmft
Oct 26 '18 at 6:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks! Do you think this approach will eventually give rise to a closed formula for the envelope with $p_1^0$ and $p_2^0$ as parameters?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 14:42
$begingroup$
@HansStricker: I consider it likely. It certainly can’t hurt to calculate the proposed curve and compare it with your simulation results.
$endgroup$
– Wrzlprmft
Oct 26 '18 at 6:03
$begingroup$
Thanks! Do you think this approach will eventually give rise to a closed formula for the envelope with $p_1^0$ and $p_2^0$ as parameters?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 14:42
$begingroup$
Thanks! Do you think this approach will eventually give rise to a closed formula for the envelope with $p_1^0$ and $p_2^0$ as parameters?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 14:42
$begingroup$
@HansStricker: I consider it likely. It certainly can’t hurt to calculate the proposed curve and compare it with your simulation results.
$endgroup$
– Wrzlprmft
Oct 26 '18 at 6:03
$begingroup$
@HansStricker: I consider it likely. It certainly can’t hurt to calculate the proposed curve and compare it with your simulation results.
$endgroup$
– Wrzlprmft
Oct 26 '18 at 6:03
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2970573%2fhow-to-calculate-the-envelope-of-the-trajectory-of-a-double-pendulum%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
Upvoted just for the animations - how did you do them? Also, the paths have cusps at the ends so they are not smooth everywhere.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
Oct 25 '18 at 13:34
1
$begingroup$
I should give credit to travisdoesmath who uses d3.js and Runge-Kutta.
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
Oct 25 '18 at 13:39
1
$begingroup$
The phase space $(phi_1,phi_2,p_1,p_2)$ is 4-dimensional, and the total energy and the angular momentum about the fixed pivot are conserved over time. These two constraints determine a 2-dimensional slice of the phase space for any given set of initial conditions. Presumably, the projection of this abstract 2-dimensional set of states to physical space gives the desired envelope.
$endgroup$
– Rahul
Oct 25 '18 at 13:45