For $mathcalMsubseteq B$ and $pin S(mathcalM)$, there exists $qin S(B)$ an heir of $p$. Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Models of $T_forallexists$ embed in a existentially closed extension model of $T$.If T is forall/exists-axiomatizable and M,N satisfies T, then there is exists/forall sentence $psi$ so that If M sat $psi$, then N sat $psi$For a compact logic, strong completeness follows from weak completenessCompactness theoremClass $K^infty$ is elementary provided that $K$ is.Counterexamples to Th$(K_1 cap K_2) subseteq$Th$(K_1)cup$Th$(K_2)$ and Mod$(Gamma cap Delta) subseteq$Mod$(Gamma) cup$Mod$(Delta)$Show that the sentence or the negation of a sentence is provable from the theory of discrete total ordersPreservation of $exists forall $-sentence of infinite algebraic extension fields$CB(varphi)=alpha$ iff $pin S_n (T) $ is nomempty finiteAn exercise in model theory about positive homomorphisms

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For $mathcalMsubseteq B$ and $pin S(mathcalM)$, there exists $qin S(B)$ an heir of $p$.



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Models of $T_forallexists$ embed in a existentially closed extension model of $T$.If T is forall/exists-axiomatizable and M,N satisfies T, then there is exists/forall sentence $psi$ so that If M sat $psi$, then N sat $psi$For a compact logic, strong completeness follows from weak completenessCompactness theoremClass $K^infty$ is elementary provided that $K$ is.Counterexamples to Th$(K_1 cap K_2) subseteq$Th$(K_1)cup$Th$(K_2)$ and Mod$(Gamma cap Delta) subseteq$Mod$(Gamma) cup$Mod$(Delta)$Show that the sentence or the negation of a sentence is provable from the theory of discrete total ordersPreservation of $exists forall $-sentence of infinite algebraic extension fields$CB(varphi)=alpha$ iff $ varphiin pwedge CB(p)geqalpha$ is nomempty finiteAn exercise in model theory about positive homomorphisms










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$begingroup$


let $Asubseteq BsubseteqmathcalM$ (where $subseteq$ is just the subset symbol). $q=mathrmtp(a/B)$ is an heir of $p=mathrmtp(a/A)$ iff for any $varphi(x;y)inmathcalL_A$, $varphi(x;b)in q$ for some $bin B$ implies $varphi(x;a)in p$ for some $ain A$.



I'm trying to prove when $mathcalMsubseteq B$ (possibly $B$ subset of some $mathcalN>mathcalM$ where $mathcalN$ is $|B|^+$-saturated) and $pin S(mathcalM)$, there exists $qin S(B)$ an heir of $p$.



I wanted to find $q$ contradicting "there exists $varphi(x;b)in q$ with $forall ainmathcalM, varphi(x;a)notin p$." So letting $p=mathrmtp(c/ mathcalM)$, I set $Sigma:=varphi(x;b)inmathcalL_Bmid mathcalNmodelsvarphi(c;b)wedge forall ainmathcalM,mathcalNmodelsvarphi(c;a) $. I could prove $Sigma cup p$ is consistent so I took a completion $q$ of this set in $mathcalL_B$. I assumed $q$ is not an heir of $p$ but failed to derive a contradiction. I tried to construct another set but I couldn't find an appropriate one.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    1












    $begingroup$


    let $Asubseteq BsubseteqmathcalM$ (where $subseteq$ is just the subset symbol). $q=mathrmtp(a/B)$ is an heir of $p=mathrmtp(a/A)$ iff for any $varphi(x;y)inmathcalL_A$, $varphi(x;b)in q$ for some $bin B$ implies $varphi(x;a)in p$ for some $ain A$.



    I'm trying to prove when $mathcalMsubseteq B$ (possibly $B$ subset of some $mathcalN>mathcalM$ where $mathcalN$ is $|B|^+$-saturated) and $pin S(mathcalM)$, there exists $qin S(B)$ an heir of $p$.



    I wanted to find $q$ contradicting "there exists $varphi(x;b)in q$ with $forall ainmathcalM, varphi(x;a)notin p$." So letting $p=mathrmtp(c/ mathcalM)$, I set $Sigma:=varphi(x;b)inmathcalL_Bmid mathcalNmodelsvarphi(c;b)wedge forall ainmathcalM,mathcalNmodelsvarphi(c;a) $. I could prove $Sigma cup p$ is consistent so I took a completion $q$ of this set in $mathcalL_B$. I assumed $q$ is not an heir of $p$ but failed to derive a contradiction. I tried to construct another set but I couldn't find an appropriate one.










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      let $Asubseteq BsubseteqmathcalM$ (where $subseteq$ is just the subset symbol). $q=mathrmtp(a/B)$ is an heir of $p=mathrmtp(a/A)$ iff for any $varphi(x;y)inmathcalL_A$, $varphi(x;b)in q$ for some $bin B$ implies $varphi(x;a)in p$ for some $ain A$.



      I'm trying to prove when $mathcalMsubseteq B$ (possibly $B$ subset of some $mathcalN>mathcalM$ where $mathcalN$ is $|B|^+$-saturated) and $pin S(mathcalM)$, there exists $qin S(B)$ an heir of $p$.



      I wanted to find $q$ contradicting "there exists $varphi(x;b)in q$ with $forall ainmathcalM, varphi(x;a)notin p$." So letting $p=mathrmtp(c/ mathcalM)$, I set $Sigma:=varphi(x;b)inmathcalL_Bmid mathcalNmodelsvarphi(c;b)wedge forall ainmathcalM,mathcalNmodelsvarphi(c;a) $. I could prove $Sigma cup p$ is consistent so I took a completion $q$ of this set in $mathcalL_B$. I assumed $q$ is not an heir of $p$ but failed to derive a contradiction. I tried to construct another set but I couldn't find an appropriate one.










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      let $Asubseteq BsubseteqmathcalM$ (where $subseteq$ is just the subset symbol). $q=mathrmtp(a/B)$ is an heir of $p=mathrmtp(a/A)$ iff for any $varphi(x;y)inmathcalL_A$, $varphi(x;b)in q$ for some $bin B$ implies $varphi(x;a)in p$ for some $ain A$.



      I'm trying to prove when $mathcalMsubseteq B$ (possibly $B$ subset of some $mathcalN>mathcalM$ where $mathcalN$ is $|B|^+$-saturated) and $pin S(mathcalM)$, there exists $qin S(B)$ an heir of $p$.



      I wanted to find $q$ contradicting "there exists $varphi(x;b)in q$ with $forall ainmathcalM, varphi(x;a)notin p$." So letting $p=mathrmtp(c/ mathcalM)$, I set $Sigma:=varphi(x;b)inmathcalL_Bmid mathcalNmodelsvarphi(c;b)wedge forall ainmathcalM,mathcalNmodelsvarphi(c;a) $. I could prove $Sigma cup p$ is consistent so I took a completion $q$ of this set in $mathcalL_B$. I assumed $q$ is not an heir of $p$ but failed to derive a contradiction. I tried to construct another set but I couldn't find an appropriate one.







      model-theory






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Mar 27 at 13:57









      Alex Kruckman

      28.7k32758




      28.7k32758










      asked Mar 27 at 7:21









      fbgfbg

      492311




      492311




















          1 Answer
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          1












          $begingroup$

          In the definition of heir, you forgot the condition that $psubseteq q$.



          Hint: You almost chose the right set $Sigma$, but not quite. Instead, look a: $$Sigma = pcup varphi(x;b)mid varphi(x;y)in mathcalL_A, bin B,textand forall ain mathcalM, varphi(x;a)in p.$$



          Showing this $Sigma$ is consistent will allow you to conclude, since if $q$ is any consistent completion of $Sigma$, and if we assume for contradiction that $varphi(x;b)in q$ but $varphi(x;a)notin p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, then $lnot varphi(x;a)in p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, so $lnot varphi(x;b)in Sigmasubseteq q$, contradicting consistency of $q$.



          This argument won't work with your choice of $Sigma$, since we don't necessarily have $mathcalNmodels lnot varphi(c;b)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for your answer
            $endgroup$
            – fbg
            Mar 28 at 4:42











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          $begingroup$

          In the definition of heir, you forgot the condition that $psubseteq q$.



          Hint: You almost chose the right set $Sigma$, but not quite. Instead, look a: $$Sigma = pcup varphi(x;b)mid varphi(x;y)in mathcalL_A, bin B,textand forall ain mathcalM, varphi(x;a)in p.$$



          Showing this $Sigma$ is consistent will allow you to conclude, since if $q$ is any consistent completion of $Sigma$, and if we assume for contradiction that $varphi(x;b)in q$ but $varphi(x;a)notin p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, then $lnot varphi(x;a)in p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, so $lnot varphi(x;b)in Sigmasubseteq q$, contradicting consistency of $q$.



          This argument won't work with your choice of $Sigma$, since we don't necessarily have $mathcalNmodels lnot varphi(c;b)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for your answer
            $endgroup$
            – fbg
            Mar 28 at 4:42















          1












          $begingroup$

          In the definition of heir, you forgot the condition that $psubseteq q$.



          Hint: You almost chose the right set $Sigma$, but not quite. Instead, look a: $$Sigma = pcup varphi(x;b)mid varphi(x;y)in mathcalL_A, bin B,textand forall ain mathcalM, varphi(x;a)in p.$$



          Showing this $Sigma$ is consistent will allow you to conclude, since if $q$ is any consistent completion of $Sigma$, and if we assume for contradiction that $varphi(x;b)in q$ but $varphi(x;a)notin p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, then $lnot varphi(x;a)in p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, so $lnot varphi(x;b)in Sigmasubseteq q$, contradicting consistency of $q$.



          This argument won't work with your choice of $Sigma$, since we don't necessarily have $mathcalNmodels lnot varphi(c;b)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for your answer
            $endgroup$
            – fbg
            Mar 28 at 4:42













          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          In the definition of heir, you forgot the condition that $psubseteq q$.



          Hint: You almost chose the right set $Sigma$, but not quite. Instead, look a: $$Sigma = pcup varphi(x;b)mid varphi(x;y)in mathcalL_A, bin B,textand forall ain mathcalM, varphi(x;a)in p.$$



          Showing this $Sigma$ is consistent will allow you to conclude, since if $q$ is any consistent completion of $Sigma$, and if we assume for contradiction that $varphi(x;b)in q$ but $varphi(x;a)notin p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, then $lnot varphi(x;a)in p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, so $lnot varphi(x;b)in Sigmasubseteq q$, contradicting consistency of $q$.



          This argument won't work with your choice of $Sigma$, since we don't necessarily have $mathcalNmodels lnot varphi(c;b)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          In the definition of heir, you forgot the condition that $psubseteq q$.



          Hint: You almost chose the right set $Sigma$, but not quite. Instead, look a: $$Sigma = pcup varphi(x;b)mid varphi(x;y)in mathcalL_A, bin B,textand forall ain mathcalM, varphi(x;a)in p.$$



          Showing this $Sigma$ is consistent will allow you to conclude, since if $q$ is any consistent completion of $Sigma$, and if we assume for contradiction that $varphi(x;b)in q$ but $varphi(x;a)notin p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, then $lnot varphi(x;a)in p$ for all $ain mathcalM$, so $lnot varphi(x;b)in Sigmasubseteq q$, contradicting consistency of $q$.



          This argument won't work with your choice of $Sigma$, since we don't necessarily have $mathcalNmodels lnot varphi(c;b)$.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Mar 27 at 13:59

























          answered Mar 27 at 13:53









          Alex KruckmanAlex Kruckman

          28.7k32758




          28.7k32758











          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for your answer
            $endgroup$
            – fbg
            Mar 28 at 4:42
















          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for your answer
            $endgroup$
            – fbg
            Mar 28 at 4:42















          $begingroup$
          Thanks for your answer
          $endgroup$
          – fbg
          Mar 28 at 4:42




          $begingroup$
          Thanks for your answer
          $endgroup$
          – fbg
          Mar 28 at 4:42

















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