Relative minor key change in chord progression“I-vi” in Major or “III-i” in Minor?Can chords found in parallel modes of the relative minor of a key (or relative major when in a minor key) be considered borrowed chords?What determines whether a chord progression makes sense?Can chord substitutions take place unrestrictedly without invalidating a progression?Minor key and its chordsweird chord progression questionm7b5 Chords in a Chord Progression?Nomenclature of diminished chords within diatonic harmonyAfter key change from minor to major, why does the vi chord sound so bad?Is there any significance of key change of 3 semitones in pop songs?
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Relative minor key change in chord progression
“I-vi” in Major or “III-i” in Minor?Can chords found in parallel modes of the relative minor of a key (or relative major when in a minor key) be considered borrowed chords?What determines whether a chord progression makes sense?Can chord substitutions take place unrestrictedly without invalidating a progression?Minor key and its chordsweird chord progression questionm7b5 Chords in a Chord Progression?Nomenclature of diminished chords within diatonic harmonyAfter key change from minor to major, why does the vi chord sound so bad?Is there any significance of key change of 3 semitones in pop songs?
I'm writing a song in F Major key.
I have a chord progression that goes Like
4/4
C7 - C#dim - Dm - Dm
( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi )
After this four measures, I wanted to change key to Dm for a moment.
So thinking the last measure's Dm (Vi) as a tonic (i) for the next four measure,
I went
A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5
which is the same ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key.
But I start to think, is ( A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5 ) really ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key ?
or am I still in F Major key and the actual chord progression is
V7/VI - III#dim - iv#m7-5 - iv#m7-5
what are the details that establish a key change ?
theory chords chord-theory chord-progressions modulation
|
show 2 more comments
I'm writing a song in F Major key.
I have a chord progression that goes Like
4/4
C7 - C#dim - Dm - Dm
( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi )
After this four measures, I wanted to change key to Dm for a moment.
So thinking the last measure's Dm (Vi) as a tonic (i) for the next four measure,
I went
A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5
which is the same ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key.
But I start to think, is ( A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5 ) really ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key ?
or am I still in F Major key and the actual chord progression is
V7/VI - III#dim - iv#m7-5 - iv#m7-5
what are the details that establish a key change ?
theory chords chord-theory chord-progressions modulation
Is this school homework or something? Why do you care about what the key "really" is? Who's going to act upon your key classification?
– piiperi
2 days ago
@piiperi no I don't have any teachers. because I like to know everything going on in my music
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
I'm voting to close because, as written, this question is generating some confusion as to what the OP is really asking.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
3
@AlexBasson no what I'm asking is very simple. did I really went to Dm key when I went to the A7 part
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
@HyunYooPark What you're asking is very simple only if you believe there's some objectively true answer possible. But there isn't. Did you intend to modulate to D minor? Or did you just write down chords that sounded good to you and then try to figure out what it meant later? We can't answer that for you. And either way, your listeners are going to hear the music on its own and make of it what they will for themselves, independent of your intent.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
I'm writing a song in F Major key.
I have a chord progression that goes Like
4/4
C7 - C#dim - Dm - Dm
( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi )
After this four measures, I wanted to change key to Dm for a moment.
So thinking the last measure's Dm (Vi) as a tonic (i) for the next four measure,
I went
A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5
which is the same ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key.
But I start to think, is ( A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5 ) really ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key ?
or am I still in F Major key and the actual chord progression is
V7/VI - III#dim - iv#m7-5 - iv#m7-5
what are the details that establish a key change ?
theory chords chord-theory chord-progressions modulation
I'm writing a song in F Major key.
I have a chord progression that goes Like
4/4
C7 - C#dim - Dm - Dm
( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi )
After this four measures, I wanted to change key to Dm for a moment.
So thinking the last measure's Dm (Vi) as a tonic (i) for the next four measure,
I went
A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5
which is the same ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key.
But I start to think, is ( A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5 ) really ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key ?
or am I still in F Major key and the actual chord progression is
V7/VI - III#dim - iv#m7-5 - iv#m7-5
what are the details that establish a key change ?
theory chords chord-theory chord-progressions modulation
theory chords chord-theory chord-progressions modulation
edited 2 days ago
user45266
3,4201734
3,4201734
asked 2 days ago
Hyun Yoo ParkHyun Yoo Park
45827
45827
Is this school homework or something? Why do you care about what the key "really" is? Who's going to act upon your key classification?
– piiperi
2 days ago
@piiperi no I don't have any teachers. because I like to know everything going on in my music
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
I'm voting to close because, as written, this question is generating some confusion as to what the OP is really asking.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
3
@AlexBasson no what I'm asking is very simple. did I really went to Dm key when I went to the A7 part
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
@HyunYooPark What you're asking is very simple only if you believe there's some objectively true answer possible. But there isn't. Did you intend to modulate to D minor? Or did you just write down chords that sounded good to you and then try to figure out what it meant later? We can't answer that for you. And either way, your listeners are going to hear the music on its own and make of it what they will for themselves, independent of your intent.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
Is this school homework or something? Why do you care about what the key "really" is? Who's going to act upon your key classification?
– piiperi
2 days ago
@piiperi no I don't have any teachers. because I like to know everything going on in my music
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
I'm voting to close because, as written, this question is generating some confusion as to what the OP is really asking.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
3
@AlexBasson no what I'm asking is very simple. did I really went to Dm key when I went to the A7 part
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
@HyunYooPark What you're asking is very simple only if you believe there's some objectively true answer possible. But there isn't. Did you intend to modulate to D minor? Or did you just write down chords that sounded good to you and then try to figure out what it meant later? We can't answer that for you. And either way, your listeners are going to hear the music on its own and make of it what they will for themselves, independent of your intent.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
Is this school homework or something? Why do you care about what the key "really" is? Who's going to act upon your key classification?
– piiperi
2 days ago
Is this school homework or something? Why do you care about what the key "really" is? Who's going to act upon your key classification?
– piiperi
2 days ago
@piiperi no I don't have any teachers. because I like to know everything going on in my music
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
@piiperi no I don't have any teachers. because I like to know everything going on in my music
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
1
I'm voting to close because, as written, this question is generating some confusion as to what the OP is really asking.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
I'm voting to close because, as written, this question is generating some confusion as to what the OP is really asking.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
3
3
@AlexBasson no what I'm asking is very simple. did I really went to Dm key when I went to the A7 part
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
@AlexBasson no what I'm asking is very simple. did I really went to Dm key when I went to the A7 part
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
1
@HyunYooPark What you're asking is very simple only if you believe there's some objectively true answer possible. But there isn't. Did you intend to modulate to D minor? Or did you just write down chords that sounded good to you and then try to figure out what it meant later? We can't answer that for you. And either way, your listeners are going to hear the music on its own and make of it what they will for themselves, independent of your intent.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
@HyunYooPark What you're asking is very simple only if you believe there's some objectively true answer possible. But there isn't. Did you intend to modulate to D minor? Or did you just write down chords that sounded good to you and then try to figure out what it meant later? We can't answer that for you. And either way, your listeners are going to hear the music on its own and make of it what they will for themselves, independent of your intent.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
It is subjective. Your feelings define it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music)
... a tonic or tonic chord, which provides a subjective sense of
arrival and rest ...
If you feel that the home base moved, then you feel that the key changed. Someone else might feel differently.
If your real question is, how to create those feelings, i.e. how to establish a key, I think there are questions and answers about that already. Use a proper cadence or something. If establishing Dm is what you're trying to do, then why do you move the bass to B instead of D, and via an A#dim instead of C#dim? If you want your audience to think about an elephant, why say "excavator". You might still be able to make it sound clearly like Dm if you write a strong melody line that disregards the obfuscated chords and overlays something that's strongly in Dm.
Isn't A#o the same as C#o, maybe with a different bass note, depending how it gets written? Although Go and Eo probably fit the key better anyway.
– Tim
2 days ago
@Tim it's the bass note I meant. A - C# - D bass movement feels more effective for establishing a Dm tonic than A - A# - D. My opinion only though. But the OP wasn't really asking how to establish a key ... he is asking for others to tell him what the key is in a chord progression he wrote.
– piiperi
2 days ago
add a comment |
Every modulation is a key change. Usually a modulation will have some close relationship to the previous key, like C>Dm, or C>F, or C>G, involving at least a common note or chord, whereas a key change could be a move a semitone or a tone up.
It's not always necessary to change key signature for a modulation - which may even re-modulate back to the original key - but for a complete key change it's worthwhile changing the key sig.
Quite often a piece will drift in and out of, say, C and Am. Certainly more of a mod. than a key change, but not really worth considering as either, unless one wants to be totally academic. It's just what music sometimes does.
I'm not talking about notations.
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
O.k. it's established you're not talking about notation. What are you talking about?
– Tim
2 days ago
I already wrote it detail as possible in my question. can you tell me what is your not getting ?
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
3
@HyunYooPark I think what we're not getting is that you seem to be asking us to explain to you what your musical intent is. You've written down some chord progressions and then asked us "Is my intent to be in D minor or F major?" But of course this isn't a question we can answer—no one can say what your intent is but you.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
2
@AlexBasson to be fair, I think you're actually giving a good answer to the question! IOW the answer is: it's a question of intention and perception, not definition.
– topo morto
2 days ago
add a comment |
As you change from F (C7 is the dominant) to dm this is a false cadence. To establish this new key Dm I propose a normal cadence in the new key Dm, to make the moduation perfect or unambiguous.
going to Dm is not my goal. my attention was doing Parallel structure with ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) on dm key
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
add a comment |
Nothing definitively indicates a key change in the kind of situation you are talking about.
Of course it's true that there are many 'textbook' examples of key changes, for example where the change is prepared and fulfilled in a certain way. But in general, there isn't really any one particular thing - or even group of things - that you can point to that 'defines' a key change, and likewise there isn't really anything that defines the 'momentary' key of a piece in the first place.
The nearest thing you will get to a definition of the overall key of the piece will be a combination of key signature, and an instruction as to the key either in the title of the piece, or elsewhere in notation. If there's no such instruction, then at the very least you will have to make your own judgement as to whether the key is major or the relative minor, and while there are many cases where most people would agree, there are some ambiguous cases too.
And of course, you have the same difficulty when discussing key changes, especially (as in your case) between relative minor and major keys. What one person hears as a key change, another might simply hear as a movement to the vi chord.
But I start to think, is ( A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5 ) really ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key ?
or am I still in F Major key and the actual chord progression is
V7/VI - III#dim - iv#m7-5 - iv#m7-5 ..?
It's up to you, as the person analysing the piece, to decide which perspective is more useful.
add a comment |
F major and D minor are so closely related as to be almost the same key. I'm inclined to describe what you're doing as simply sequential imitation within a single key.
Does it make any difference, other that in what labels you put on the chords?
add a comment |
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
It is subjective. Your feelings define it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music)
... a tonic or tonic chord, which provides a subjective sense of
arrival and rest ...
If you feel that the home base moved, then you feel that the key changed. Someone else might feel differently.
If your real question is, how to create those feelings, i.e. how to establish a key, I think there are questions and answers about that already. Use a proper cadence or something. If establishing Dm is what you're trying to do, then why do you move the bass to B instead of D, and via an A#dim instead of C#dim? If you want your audience to think about an elephant, why say "excavator". You might still be able to make it sound clearly like Dm if you write a strong melody line that disregards the obfuscated chords and overlays something that's strongly in Dm.
Isn't A#o the same as C#o, maybe with a different bass note, depending how it gets written? Although Go and Eo probably fit the key better anyway.
– Tim
2 days ago
@Tim it's the bass note I meant. A - C# - D bass movement feels more effective for establishing a Dm tonic than A - A# - D. My opinion only though. But the OP wasn't really asking how to establish a key ... he is asking for others to tell him what the key is in a chord progression he wrote.
– piiperi
2 days ago
add a comment |
It is subjective. Your feelings define it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music)
... a tonic or tonic chord, which provides a subjective sense of
arrival and rest ...
If you feel that the home base moved, then you feel that the key changed. Someone else might feel differently.
If your real question is, how to create those feelings, i.e. how to establish a key, I think there are questions and answers about that already. Use a proper cadence or something. If establishing Dm is what you're trying to do, then why do you move the bass to B instead of D, and via an A#dim instead of C#dim? If you want your audience to think about an elephant, why say "excavator". You might still be able to make it sound clearly like Dm if you write a strong melody line that disregards the obfuscated chords and overlays something that's strongly in Dm.
Isn't A#o the same as C#o, maybe with a different bass note, depending how it gets written? Although Go and Eo probably fit the key better anyway.
– Tim
2 days ago
@Tim it's the bass note I meant. A - C# - D bass movement feels more effective for establishing a Dm tonic than A - A# - D. My opinion only though. But the OP wasn't really asking how to establish a key ... he is asking for others to tell him what the key is in a chord progression he wrote.
– piiperi
2 days ago
add a comment |
It is subjective. Your feelings define it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music)
... a tonic or tonic chord, which provides a subjective sense of
arrival and rest ...
If you feel that the home base moved, then you feel that the key changed. Someone else might feel differently.
If your real question is, how to create those feelings, i.e. how to establish a key, I think there are questions and answers about that already. Use a proper cadence or something. If establishing Dm is what you're trying to do, then why do you move the bass to B instead of D, and via an A#dim instead of C#dim? If you want your audience to think about an elephant, why say "excavator". You might still be able to make it sound clearly like Dm if you write a strong melody line that disregards the obfuscated chords and overlays something that's strongly in Dm.
It is subjective. Your feelings define it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music)
... a tonic or tonic chord, which provides a subjective sense of
arrival and rest ...
If you feel that the home base moved, then you feel that the key changed. Someone else might feel differently.
If your real question is, how to create those feelings, i.e. how to establish a key, I think there are questions and answers about that already. Use a proper cadence or something. If establishing Dm is what you're trying to do, then why do you move the bass to B instead of D, and via an A#dim instead of C#dim? If you want your audience to think about an elephant, why say "excavator". You might still be able to make it sound clearly like Dm if you write a strong melody line that disregards the obfuscated chords and overlays something that's strongly in Dm.
answered 2 days ago
piiperipiiperi
1,914210
1,914210
Isn't A#o the same as C#o, maybe with a different bass note, depending how it gets written? Although Go and Eo probably fit the key better anyway.
– Tim
2 days ago
@Tim it's the bass note I meant. A - C# - D bass movement feels more effective for establishing a Dm tonic than A - A# - D. My opinion only though. But the OP wasn't really asking how to establish a key ... he is asking for others to tell him what the key is in a chord progression he wrote.
– piiperi
2 days ago
add a comment |
Isn't A#o the same as C#o, maybe with a different bass note, depending how it gets written? Although Go and Eo probably fit the key better anyway.
– Tim
2 days ago
@Tim it's the bass note I meant. A - C# - D bass movement feels more effective for establishing a Dm tonic than A - A# - D. My opinion only though. But the OP wasn't really asking how to establish a key ... he is asking for others to tell him what the key is in a chord progression he wrote.
– piiperi
2 days ago
Isn't A#o the same as C#o, maybe with a different bass note, depending how it gets written? Although Go and Eo probably fit the key better anyway.
– Tim
2 days ago
Isn't A#o the same as C#o, maybe with a different bass note, depending how it gets written? Although Go and Eo probably fit the key better anyway.
– Tim
2 days ago
@Tim it's the bass note I meant. A - C# - D bass movement feels more effective for establishing a Dm tonic than A - A# - D. My opinion only though. But the OP wasn't really asking how to establish a key ... he is asking for others to tell him what the key is in a chord progression he wrote.
– piiperi
2 days ago
@Tim it's the bass note I meant. A - C# - D bass movement feels more effective for establishing a Dm tonic than A - A# - D. My opinion only though. But the OP wasn't really asking how to establish a key ... he is asking for others to tell him what the key is in a chord progression he wrote.
– piiperi
2 days ago
add a comment |
Every modulation is a key change. Usually a modulation will have some close relationship to the previous key, like C>Dm, or C>F, or C>G, involving at least a common note or chord, whereas a key change could be a move a semitone or a tone up.
It's not always necessary to change key signature for a modulation - which may even re-modulate back to the original key - but for a complete key change it's worthwhile changing the key sig.
Quite often a piece will drift in and out of, say, C and Am. Certainly more of a mod. than a key change, but not really worth considering as either, unless one wants to be totally academic. It's just what music sometimes does.
I'm not talking about notations.
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
O.k. it's established you're not talking about notation. What are you talking about?
– Tim
2 days ago
I already wrote it detail as possible in my question. can you tell me what is your not getting ?
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
3
@HyunYooPark I think what we're not getting is that you seem to be asking us to explain to you what your musical intent is. You've written down some chord progressions and then asked us "Is my intent to be in D minor or F major?" But of course this isn't a question we can answer—no one can say what your intent is but you.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
2
@AlexBasson to be fair, I think you're actually giving a good answer to the question! IOW the answer is: it's a question of intention and perception, not definition.
– topo morto
2 days ago
add a comment |
Every modulation is a key change. Usually a modulation will have some close relationship to the previous key, like C>Dm, or C>F, or C>G, involving at least a common note or chord, whereas a key change could be a move a semitone or a tone up.
It's not always necessary to change key signature for a modulation - which may even re-modulate back to the original key - but for a complete key change it's worthwhile changing the key sig.
Quite often a piece will drift in and out of, say, C and Am. Certainly more of a mod. than a key change, but not really worth considering as either, unless one wants to be totally academic. It's just what music sometimes does.
I'm not talking about notations.
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
O.k. it's established you're not talking about notation. What are you talking about?
– Tim
2 days ago
I already wrote it detail as possible in my question. can you tell me what is your not getting ?
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
3
@HyunYooPark I think what we're not getting is that you seem to be asking us to explain to you what your musical intent is. You've written down some chord progressions and then asked us "Is my intent to be in D minor or F major?" But of course this isn't a question we can answer—no one can say what your intent is but you.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
2
@AlexBasson to be fair, I think you're actually giving a good answer to the question! IOW the answer is: it's a question of intention and perception, not definition.
– topo morto
2 days ago
add a comment |
Every modulation is a key change. Usually a modulation will have some close relationship to the previous key, like C>Dm, or C>F, or C>G, involving at least a common note or chord, whereas a key change could be a move a semitone or a tone up.
It's not always necessary to change key signature for a modulation - which may even re-modulate back to the original key - but for a complete key change it's worthwhile changing the key sig.
Quite often a piece will drift in and out of, say, C and Am. Certainly more of a mod. than a key change, but not really worth considering as either, unless one wants to be totally academic. It's just what music sometimes does.
Every modulation is a key change. Usually a modulation will have some close relationship to the previous key, like C>Dm, or C>F, or C>G, involving at least a common note or chord, whereas a key change could be a move a semitone or a tone up.
It's not always necessary to change key signature for a modulation - which may even re-modulate back to the original key - but for a complete key change it's worthwhile changing the key sig.
Quite often a piece will drift in and out of, say, C and Am. Certainly more of a mod. than a key change, but not really worth considering as either, unless one wants to be totally academic. It's just what music sometimes does.
answered 2 days ago
TimTim
102k10107259
102k10107259
I'm not talking about notations.
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
O.k. it's established you're not talking about notation. What are you talking about?
– Tim
2 days ago
I already wrote it detail as possible in my question. can you tell me what is your not getting ?
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
3
@HyunYooPark I think what we're not getting is that you seem to be asking us to explain to you what your musical intent is. You've written down some chord progressions and then asked us "Is my intent to be in D minor or F major?" But of course this isn't a question we can answer—no one can say what your intent is but you.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
2
@AlexBasson to be fair, I think you're actually giving a good answer to the question! IOW the answer is: it's a question of intention and perception, not definition.
– topo morto
2 days ago
add a comment |
I'm not talking about notations.
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
O.k. it's established you're not talking about notation. What are you talking about?
– Tim
2 days ago
I already wrote it detail as possible in my question. can you tell me what is your not getting ?
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
3
@HyunYooPark I think what we're not getting is that you seem to be asking us to explain to you what your musical intent is. You've written down some chord progressions and then asked us "Is my intent to be in D minor or F major?" But of course this isn't a question we can answer—no one can say what your intent is but you.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
2
@AlexBasson to be fair, I think you're actually giving a good answer to the question! IOW the answer is: it's a question of intention and perception, not definition.
– topo morto
2 days ago
I'm not talking about notations.
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
I'm not talking about notations.
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
1
O.k. it's established you're not talking about notation. What are you talking about?
– Tim
2 days ago
O.k. it's established you're not talking about notation. What are you talking about?
– Tim
2 days ago
I already wrote it detail as possible in my question. can you tell me what is your not getting ?
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
I already wrote it detail as possible in my question. can you tell me what is your not getting ?
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
3
3
@HyunYooPark I think what we're not getting is that you seem to be asking us to explain to you what your musical intent is. You've written down some chord progressions and then asked us "Is my intent to be in D minor or F major?" But of course this isn't a question we can answer—no one can say what your intent is but you.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
@HyunYooPark I think what we're not getting is that you seem to be asking us to explain to you what your musical intent is. You've written down some chord progressions and then asked us "Is my intent to be in D minor or F major?" But of course this isn't a question we can answer—no one can say what your intent is but you.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
2
2
@AlexBasson to be fair, I think you're actually giving a good answer to the question! IOW the answer is: it's a question of intention and perception, not definition.
– topo morto
2 days ago
@AlexBasson to be fair, I think you're actually giving a good answer to the question! IOW the answer is: it's a question of intention and perception, not definition.
– topo morto
2 days ago
add a comment |
As you change from F (C7 is the dominant) to dm this is a false cadence. To establish this new key Dm I propose a normal cadence in the new key Dm, to make the moduation perfect or unambiguous.
going to Dm is not my goal. my attention was doing Parallel structure with ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) on dm key
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
add a comment |
As you change from F (C7 is the dominant) to dm this is a false cadence. To establish this new key Dm I propose a normal cadence in the new key Dm, to make the moduation perfect or unambiguous.
going to Dm is not my goal. my attention was doing Parallel structure with ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) on dm key
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
add a comment |
As you change from F (C7 is the dominant) to dm this is a false cadence. To establish this new key Dm I propose a normal cadence in the new key Dm, to make the moduation perfect or unambiguous.
As you change from F (C7 is the dominant) to dm this is a false cadence. To establish this new key Dm I propose a normal cadence in the new key Dm, to make the moduation perfect or unambiguous.
answered 2 days ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
3,127220
3,127220
going to Dm is not my goal. my attention was doing Parallel structure with ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) on dm key
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
add a comment |
going to Dm is not my goal. my attention was doing Parallel structure with ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) on dm key
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
going to Dm is not my goal. my attention was doing Parallel structure with ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) on dm key
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
going to Dm is not my goal. my attention was doing Parallel structure with ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) on dm key
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
add a comment |
Nothing definitively indicates a key change in the kind of situation you are talking about.
Of course it's true that there are many 'textbook' examples of key changes, for example where the change is prepared and fulfilled in a certain way. But in general, there isn't really any one particular thing - or even group of things - that you can point to that 'defines' a key change, and likewise there isn't really anything that defines the 'momentary' key of a piece in the first place.
The nearest thing you will get to a definition of the overall key of the piece will be a combination of key signature, and an instruction as to the key either in the title of the piece, or elsewhere in notation. If there's no such instruction, then at the very least you will have to make your own judgement as to whether the key is major or the relative minor, and while there are many cases where most people would agree, there are some ambiguous cases too.
And of course, you have the same difficulty when discussing key changes, especially (as in your case) between relative minor and major keys. What one person hears as a key change, another might simply hear as a movement to the vi chord.
But I start to think, is ( A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5 ) really ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key ?
or am I still in F Major key and the actual chord progression is
V7/VI - III#dim - iv#m7-5 - iv#m7-5 ..?
It's up to you, as the person analysing the piece, to decide which perspective is more useful.
add a comment |
Nothing definitively indicates a key change in the kind of situation you are talking about.
Of course it's true that there are many 'textbook' examples of key changes, for example where the change is prepared and fulfilled in a certain way. But in general, there isn't really any one particular thing - or even group of things - that you can point to that 'defines' a key change, and likewise there isn't really anything that defines the 'momentary' key of a piece in the first place.
The nearest thing you will get to a definition of the overall key of the piece will be a combination of key signature, and an instruction as to the key either in the title of the piece, or elsewhere in notation. If there's no such instruction, then at the very least you will have to make your own judgement as to whether the key is major or the relative minor, and while there are many cases where most people would agree, there are some ambiguous cases too.
And of course, you have the same difficulty when discussing key changes, especially (as in your case) between relative minor and major keys. What one person hears as a key change, another might simply hear as a movement to the vi chord.
But I start to think, is ( A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5 ) really ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key ?
or am I still in F Major key and the actual chord progression is
V7/VI - III#dim - iv#m7-5 - iv#m7-5 ..?
It's up to you, as the person analysing the piece, to decide which perspective is more useful.
add a comment |
Nothing definitively indicates a key change in the kind of situation you are talking about.
Of course it's true that there are many 'textbook' examples of key changes, for example where the change is prepared and fulfilled in a certain way. But in general, there isn't really any one particular thing - or even group of things - that you can point to that 'defines' a key change, and likewise there isn't really anything that defines the 'momentary' key of a piece in the first place.
The nearest thing you will get to a definition of the overall key of the piece will be a combination of key signature, and an instruction as to the key either in the title of the piece, or elsewhere in notation. If there's no such instruction, then at the very least you will have to make your own judgement as to whether the key is major or the relative minor, and while there are many cases where most people would agree, there are some ambiguous cases too.
And of course, you have the same difficulty when discussing key changes, especially (as in your case) between relative minor and major keys. What one person hears as a key change, another might simply hear as a movement to the vi chord.
But I start to think, is ( A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5 ) really ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key ?
or am I still in F Major key and the actual chord progression is
V7/VI - III#dim - iv#m7-5 - iv#m7-5 ..?
It's up to you, as the person analysing the piece, to decide which perspective is more useful.
Nothing definitively indicates a key change in the kind of situation you are talking about.
Of course it's true that there are many 'textbook' examples of key changes, for example where the change is prepared and fulfilled in a certain way. But in general, there isn't really any one particular thing - or even group of things - that you can point to that 'defines' a key change, and likewise there isn't really anything that defines the 'momentary' key of a piece in the first place.
The nearest thing you will get to a definition of the overall key of the piece will be a combination of key signature, and an instruction as to the key either in the title of the piece, or elsewhere in notation. If there's no such instruction, then at the very least you will have to make your own judgement as to whether the key is major or the relative minor, and while there are many cases where most people would agree, there are some ambiguous cases too.
And of course, you have the same difficulty when discussing key changes, especially (as in your case) between relative minor and major keys. What one person hears as a key change, another might simply hear as a movement to the vi chord.
But I start to think, is ( A7 - A#dim - Bm7-5 - Bm7-5 ) really ( V7 - V#dim - Vi - Vi ) in Dm key ?
or am I still in F Major key and the actual chord progression is
V7/VI - III#dim - iv#m7-5 - iv#m7-5 ..?
It's up to you, as the person analysing the piece, to decide which perspective is more useful.
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
topo mortotopo morto
25.8k244103
25.8k244103
add a comment |
add a comment |
F major and D minor are so closely related as to be almost the same key. I'm inclined to describe what you're doing as simply sequential imitation within a single key.
Does it make any difference, other that in what labels you put on the chords?
add a comment |
F major and D minor are so closely related as to be almost the same key. I'm inclined to describe what you're doing as simply sequential imitation within a single key.
Does it make any difference, other that in what labels you put on the chords?
add a comment |
F major and D minor are so closely related as to be almost the same key. I'm inclined to describe what you're doing as simply sequential imitation within a single key.
Does it make any difference, other that in what labels you put on the chords?
F major and D minor are so closely related as to be almost the same key. I'm inclined to describe what you're doing as simply sequential imitation within a single key.
Does it make any difference, other that in what labels you put on the chords?
answered 2 days ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
36k1669
36k1669
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Is this school homework or something? Why do you care about what the key "really" is? Who's going to act upon your key classification?
– piiperi
2 days ago
@piiperi no I don't have any teachers. because I like to know everything going on in my music
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
I'm voting to close because, as written, this question is generating some confusion as to what the OP is really asking.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago
3
@AlexBasson no what I'm asking is very simple. did I really went to Dm key when I went to the A7 part
– Hyun Yoo Park
2 days ago
1
@HyunYooPark What you're asking is very simple only if you believe there's some objectively true answer possible. But there isn't. Did you intend to modulate to D minor? Or did you just write down chords that sounded good to you and then try to figure out what it meant later? We can't answer that for you. And either way, your listeners are going to hear the music on its own and make of it what they will for themselves, independent of your intent.
– Alex Basson
2 days ago