If the sum of positive integers $a$ and $b$ is a prime, their gcd is $1$. Proof?Any two positive integers are co-prime if their sum is a prime numberIf all pairs of addends that sum up to $N$ are coprime, then $N$ is prime.Simple quadratic, crazy question part 2Finding the GCD of three numbers?Simple Property of GCD and Modular ArithmeticWithout using prime factorization, show if $mmid n^2$ then $gcd(m,n^2/m)mid n$proof - $forall a, b in mathbbZ^+, a neq b, exists text infinite n in mathbbZ^. gcd(a+n, b+n) = 1$Relatively Prime Cases of the Brahmagupta-Fibonacci IdentityProof that if $n>0$, $a=nm$, $b=np$, $c=nq$, then $gcd(m,p,q)=1$ iff $n=gcd(a,b,c)$Prime numbers and remainderHow do I prove this very basic gcd equivalence for the case where there is no common divisor except 1?Show that if $gcd(a,b) > 1$, then there can be at most one prime of the form $p = an+b$.Sum of two co-prime integers
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If the sum of positive integers $a$ and $b$ is a prime, their gcd is $1$. Proof?
Any two positive integers are co-prime if their sum is a prime numberIf all pairs of addends that sum up to $N$ are coprime, then $N$ is prime.Simple quadratic, crazy question part 2Finding the GCD of three numbers?Simple Property of GCD and Modular ArithmeticWithout using prime factorization, show if $mmid n^2$ then $gcd(m,n^2/m)mid n$proof - $forall a, b in mathbbZ^+, a neq b, exists text infinite n in mathbbZ^. gcd(a+n, b+n) = 1$Relatively Prime Cases of the Brahmagupta-Fibonacci IdentityProof that if $n>0$, $a=nm$, $b=np$, $c=nq$, then $gcd(m,p,q)=1$ iff $n=gcd(a,b,c)$Prime numbers and remainderHow do I prove this very basic gcd equivalence for the case where there is no common divisor except 1?Show that if $gcd(a,b) > 1$, then there can be at most one prime of the form $p = an+b$.Sum of two co-prime integers
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I feel this is an intuitive result.
If, for example, I was working with the prime number $11$, I could split it in the following ways: $1, 10$, $2, 9$, $3, 8$, $4, 7$, $5, 6$.
Then clearly there is no way that the $2$ numbers can have a $gcd$ of anything other than $1$. However, I am sort of lost on how to start a formal proof for this. Any pointers would be much appreciated.
elementary-number-theory greatest-common-divisor
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add a comment |
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I feel this is an intuitive result.
If, for example, I was working with the prime number $11$, I could split it in the following ways: $1, 10$, $2, 9$, $3, 8$, $4, 7$, $5, 6$.
Then clearly there is no way that the $2$ numbers can have a $gcd$ of anything other than $1$. However, I am sort of lost on how to start a formal proof for this. Any pointers would be much appreciated.
elementary-number-theory greatest-common-divisor
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1
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Hint: The gcd can't be $a+b$, but must divide $a+b$.
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– Geoff Robinson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:09
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Note that positive does need to be used. For $gcd(9,-6)=3$, and $9+(-6)$ is prime.
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– André Nicolas
Aug 12 '12 at 0:10
add a comment |
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I feel this is an intuitive result.
If, for example, I was working with the prime number $11$, I could split it in the following ways: $1, 10$, $2, 9$, $3, 8$, $4, 7$, $5, 6$.
Then clearly there is no way that the $2$ numbers can have a $gcd$ of anything other than $1$. However, I am sort of lost on how to start a formal proof for this. Any pointers would be much appreciated.
elementary-number-theory greatest-common-divisor
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I feel this is an intuitive result.
If, for example, I was working with the prime number $11$, I could split it in the following ways: $1, 10$, $2, 9$, $3, 8$, $4, 7$, $5, 6$.
Then clearly there is no way that the $2$ numbers can have a $gcd$ of anything other than $1$. However, I am sort of lost on how to start a formal proof for this. Any pointers would be much appreciated.
elementary-number-theory greatest-common-divisor
elementary-number-theory greatest-common-divisor
edited Feb 23 at 0:42
Vinyl_cape_jawa
3,34011433
3,34011433
asked Aug 12 '12 at 0:01
achacttnachacttn
387616
387616
1
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Hint: The gcd can't be $a+b$, but must divide $a+b$.
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– Geoff Robinson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:09
7
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Note that positive does need to be used. For $gcd(9,-6)=3$, and $9+(-6)$ is prime.
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– André Nicolas
Aug 12 '12 at 0:10
add a comment |
1
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Hint: The gcd can't be $a+b$, but must divide $a+b$.
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– Geoff Robinson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:09
7
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Note that positive does need to be used. For $gcd(9,-6)=3$, and $9+(-6)$ is prime.
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– André Nicolas
Aug 12 '12 at 0:10
1
1
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Hint: The gcd can't be $a+b$, but must divide $a+b$.
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– Geoff Robinson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:09
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Hint: The gcd can't be $a+b$, but must divide $a+b$.
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– Geoff Robinson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:09
7
7
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Note that positive does need to be used. For $gcd(9,-6)=3$, and $9+(-6)$ is prime.
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– André Nicolas
Aug 12 '12 at 0:10
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Note that positive does need to be used. For $gcd(9,-6)=3$, and $9+(-6)$ is prime.
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– André Nicolas
Aug 12 '12 at 0:10
add a comment |
10 Answers
10
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Let's show the contrapositive, because why not?
So we want to show that if $a,b>0$ and $gcd(a,b) neq 1$, then their sum is not prime.
Suppose that $gcd(a,b) = d > 1$. Then $a = a'd$ and $b = b'd$ for some $a',b'$ natural numbers. But then $a + b = da' + db' = d(a' + b')$, and as each of $d,a',b' geq 1$, we have that $a + b geq 2d$, but is divisible by $d$. Thus it is not prime. $diamondsuit$
Thus if the sum of positive integers is prime, then their gcd is $1$.
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Thanks for your reply. I understood your post up to "as each of d,a′,b′≥1", but couldn't see how it was immediately followed by "we have that a+b≥2d".
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:58
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@achacttn: As $a',b' geq 1$, we know $a' + b' geq 2$. Thus $a + b geq 2d$.
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– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:02
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ah understood. Thank you
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 1:44
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Hello davidlowryduda, could I please get your thoughts on my answer? Is it wrong? Someone voted to delete it.
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– user198044
Oct 10 '18 at 14:19
add a comment |
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Let $c$ be the gcd. Then $c$ divides $a$ and $b$, hence it divides $a+b$, a prime number.
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And where have you used the hypothesis that $a$ and $b$ are positive? The result is false without that hypothesis, as Andre noted in the comments, so you must have used it somewhere.
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– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:20
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How do you know that c would be 1 then?
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:42
4
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@achactnn: His theory was that since $c$ divides a prime number, it must be $1$. But this proof is incomplete (despite its many upvotes) because it doesn't use positivity. For example, let's use Andre's counterexample in Eepzy's answer. Let $3$ be the gcd. Then $3$ divides $9$ and $-6$, and thus $9 - 6 = 3$, a prime number. This is consistent with his reasoning, but it doesn't guarantee that $c$ would be $1$ (as written), at least not without a positivity assumption.
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– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:01
1
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@GerryMyerson: That's easy to solve: c is either 1 or (a+b) since (a+b) is prime. If a and b > 0, then a+b cannot be a divisor of a or b, thus c == 1.
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– stefan
Aug 12 '12 at 14:23
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@stefan, yes, it's easy to plug the hole in Eepzy's work - I'm just noting that there is a hole, and it needs plugging.
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– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 23:29
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show 2 more comments
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Let $d$ be their gcd.
Then $d$ divides their sum $p$,
so $d$ can be only 1 or $p$.
If $d = p$, then $p$ divides both $a$ and $b$.
Since both of these are positive,
they are each at least $p$,
so their sum is at least $2p$.
I realize that this is a restatement of mixedmath's answer.
This can easily be generalized to show that
this holds for the sum of $k$ positive integers
for $k ge 2$.
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add a comment |
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Here is a direct proof that is independent of the others:
Let $g = gcd(a,b)$. Then we can see that $$gmathbbZ = amathbbZ + bmathbbZ = nin mathbbZ .$$
In other words, $g$ generates the set of all integer combinations of $a$ and $b$. (If you are not familiar with this, it is most likely presented as a theorem in your textbook.) Since we are $a+b=p$ (given) and $a+b$ is some integer combination of $a$ and $b$, then $p$ must be in $gmathbbZ$.
If $p in gmathbbZ$, then $g$ must be equal to $1$ or $p$ (since $p$ is prime). But by the fact that $a$ and $b$ are both positive and less than $p$ (the sum of the two equals $p$), then $p$ can't possibly be the greatest common divisor, let alone a divisor of any kind. Therefore $g = 1$.
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Suppose $a,b$ are positive integers whose sum is a prime, $p$. Then $a+b = p$. Also, because $a, b$ are both positive integers that add up to $p$, then $a,b < p$. This implies that $gcd(a,p) = 1$ and $gcd(b,p) = 1$. Thus we can write 1 as a linear combination of both $a$ and $p$ or $b$ and $p$. Let us do it the first way. $ax + py = 1$ for some $x, y in mathbbZ$. From our original assumption, $a+b = p$. Thus we can substitute. $ax + (a+b)y = 1$. This implies $ax + ay +by = 1$. Grouping like terms we get $a(x+y) + b(y) = 1$. Thus 1 can be written as a linear combination of $a$ and $b$. This implies that $gcd(a,b) = 1$. We have shown what we wanted to show.
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let prime p=a+b, a and b positive
Suppose gcd(a,b)=s, $sne 1$
Then s divides a and s divides b, so there are some m,n such that a=sm and b=sn
then $a+b=sm+sn=s(m+n)$, which shows that s is a factor of a+b
so s is a factor of p. Contradiction.
The way out for negatives is that, in the above example, 3 is a factor of p, since it is p itself. So there is no contradiction in that case.
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Complete short proof:
Let $gcd(a,b)=d$. Then, $d mid a$ and $d mid b$. Thus, $d mid a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$ or $d=p$. Since $d mid a$, $dle a<a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$.
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As $(a,b) mid a$ and $(a,b) mid b, (a,b) mid (pa+qb)$ where a,b,p,q are integers.
If (a,b) is not prime, $pa+qb$ can not be prime.
So, if $pa+qb$ is prime, (a,b) must be.
But there exists, p,q of opposite parity such that $(a,b)=pa+qb$ (which is Bézout's Identity).
In that case, primality nature of $pa+qb$ will be dictated by that of $(a,b)$.
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$$1=gcd(p,a)=gcd(a+b,a)=gcd(a,b)$$
The last step follows from $gcd(b+ma,a)=gcd(a,b)$ for any integer $m$. The first step follows from $a<p$. Any particular reason someone voted to delete this answer?
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Edited:
I know it’s an old question, but since certain aspects of prior answers came across as arguably being like a second language, I figured some future readers who, like me, don’t have advanced math might benefit from a more basic approach to the OP’s requested “pointers” for “how to start a formal proof”:
For primes p > q , and positive integers m and n that are generally coprime but either or both of which can be 1, one can never have p = mq + nq because that would mean p/q = m + n . (Conversely, it would seem that any composite c would have at least one way of satisfying c = mq + nq).
I don’t mean any disrespect to the prior answers, but my aging brain cells prefer this kind of simplicity. :-)
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This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
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– Leucippus
Feb 23 at 2:15
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@Leucippus, Would it be acceptable for me to ask a separate question (perhaps tagged with “intuition”) to raise the issue of whether this question would be validly answered with a seemingly simpler answer? Or should I just seek a more discussion-based site?
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– PrimeNumberHobbyist
Feb 23 at 14:40
add a comment |
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10 Answers
10
active
oldest
votes
10 Answers
10
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
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Let's show the contrapositive, because why not?
So we want to show that if $a,b>0$ and $gcd(a,b) neq 1$, then their sum is not prime.
Suppose that $gcd(a,b) = d > 1$. Then $a = a'd$ and $b = b'd$ for some $a',b'$ natural numbers. But then $a + b = da' + db' = d(a' + b')$, and as each of $d,a',b' geq 1$, we have that $a + b geq 2d$, but is divisible by $d$. Thus it is not prime. $diamondsuit$
Thus if the sum of positive integers is prime, then their gcd is $1$.
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Thanks for your reply. I understood your post up to "as each of d,a′,b′≥1", but couldn't see how it was immediately followed by "we have that a+b≥2d".
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:58
2
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@achacttn: As $a',b' geq 1$, we know $a' + b' geq 2$. Thus $a + b geq 2d$.
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– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:02
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ah understood. Thank you
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 1:44
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Hello davidlowryduda, could I please get your thoughts on my answer? Is it wrong? Someone voted to delete it.
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– user198044
Oct 10 '18 at 14:19
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's show the contrapositive, because why not?
So we want to show that if $a,b>0$ and $gcd(a,b) neq 1$, then their sum is not prime.
Suppose that $gcd(a,b) = d > 1$. Then $a = a'd$ and $b = b'd$ for some $a',b'$ natural numbers. But then $a + b = da' + db' = d(a' + b')$, and as each of $d,a',b' geq 1$, we have that $a + b geq 2d$, but is divisible by $d$. Thus it is not prime. $diamondsuit$
Thus if the sum of positive integers is prime, then their gcd is $1$.
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$begingroup$
Thanks for your reply. I understood your post up to "as each of d,a′,b′≥1", but couldn't see how it was immediately followed by "we have that a+b≥2d".
$endgroup$
– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:58
2
$begingroup$
@achacttn: As $a',b' geq 1$, we know $a' + b' geq 2$. Thus $a + b geq 2d$.
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– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:02
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ah understood. Thank you
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 1:44
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Hello davidlowryduda, could I please get your thoughts on my answer? Is it wrong? Someone voted to delete it.
$endgroup$
– user198044
Oct 10 '18 at 14:19
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's show the contrapositive, because why not?
So we want to show that if $a,b>0$ and $gcd(a,b) neq 1$, then their sum is not prime.
Suppose that $gcd(a,b) = d > 1$. Then $a = a'd$ and $b = b'd$ for some $a',b'$ natural numbers. But then $a + b = da' + db' = d(a' + b')$, and as each of $d,a',b' geq 1$, we have that $a + b geq 2d$, but is divisible by $d$. Thus it is not prime. $diamondsuit$
Thus if the sum of positive integers is prime, then their gcd is $1$.
$endgroup$
Let's show the contrapositive, because why not?
So we want to show that if $a,b>0$ and $gcd(a,b) neq 1$, then their sum is not prime.
Suppose that $gcd(a,b) = d > 1$. Then $a = a'd$ and $b = b'd$ for some $a',b'$ natural numbers. But then $a + b = da' + db' = d(a' + b')$, and as each of $d,a',b' geq 1$, we have that $a + b geq 2d$, but is divisible by $d$. Thus it is not prime. $diamondsuit$
Thus if the sum of positive integers is prime, then their gcd is $1$.
answered Aug 12 '12 at 0:37
davidlowryduda♦davidlowryduda
75k7120256
75k7120256
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Thanks for your reply. I understood your post up to "as each of d,a′,b′≥1", but couldn't see how it was immediately followed by "we have that a+b≥2d".
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:58
2
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@achacttn: As $a',b' geq 1$, we know $a' + b' geq 2$. Thus $a + b geq 2d$.
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– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:02
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ah understood. Thank you
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 1:44
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Hello davidlowryduda, could I please get your thoughts on my answer? Is it wrong? Someone voted to delete it.
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– user198044
Oct 10 '18 at 14:19
add a comment |
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Thanks for your reply. I understood your post up to "as each of d,a′,b′≥1", but couldn't see how it was immediately followed by "we have that a+b≥2d".
$endgroup$
– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:58
2
$begingroup$
@achacttn: As $a',b' geq 1$, we know $a' + b' geq 2$. Thus $a + b geq 2d$.
$endgroup$
– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:02
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ah understood. Thank you
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 1:44
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Hello davidlowryduda, could I please get your thoughts on my answer? Is it wrong? Someone voted to delete it.
$endgroup$
– user198044
Oct 10 '18 at 14:19
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Thanks for your reply. I understood your post up to "as each of d,a′,b′≥1", but couldn't see how it was immediately followed by "we have that a+b≥2d".
$endgroup$
– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:58
$begingroup$
Thanks for your reply. I understood your post up to "as each of d,a′,b′≥1", but couldn't see how it was immediately followed by "we have that a+b≥2d".
$endgroup$
– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:58
2
2
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@achacttn: As $a',b' geq 1$, we know $a' + b' geq 2$. Thus $a + b geq 2d$.
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– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:02
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@achacttn: As $a',b' geq 1$, we know $a' + b' geq 2$. Thus $a + b geq 2d$.
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– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:02
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ah understood. Thank you
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 1:44
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ah understood. Thank you
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 1:44
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Hello davidlowryduda, could I please get your thoughts on my answer? Is it wrong? Someone voted to delete it.
$endgroup$
– user198044
Oct 10 '18 at 14:19
$begingroup$
Hello davidlowryduda, could I please get your thoughts on my answer? Is it wrong? Someone voted to delete it.
$endgroup$
– user198044
Oct 10 '18 at 14:19
add a comment |
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Let $c$ be the gcd. Then $c$ divides $a$ and $b$, hence it divides $a+b$, a prime number.
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And where have you used the hypothesis that $a$ and $b$ are positive? The result is false without that hypothesis, as Andre noted in the comments, so you must have used it somewhere.
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– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:20
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How do you know that c would be 1 then?
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:42
4
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@achactnn: His theory was that since $c$ divides a prime number, it must be $1$. But this proof is incomplete (despite its many upvotes) because it doesn't use positivity. For example, let's use Andre's counterexample in Eepzy's answer. Let $3$ be the gcd. Then $3$ divides $9$ and $-6$, and thus $9 - 6 = 3$, a prime number. This is consistent with his reasoning, but it doesn't guarantee that $c$ would be $1$ (as written), at least not without a positivity assumption.
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– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:01
1
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@GerryMyerson: That's easy to solve: c is either 1 or (a+b) since (a+b) is prime. If a and b > 0, then a+b cannot be a divisor of a or b, thus c == 1.
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– stefan
Aug 12 '12 at 14:23
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@stefan, yes, it's easy to plug the hole in Eepzy's work - I'm just noting that there is a hole, and it needs plugging.
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– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 23:29
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show 2 more comments
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Let $c$ be the gcd. Then $c$ divides $a$ and $b$, hence it divides $a+b$, a prime number.
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6
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And where have you used the hypothesis that $a$ and $b$ are positive? The result is false without that hypothesis, as Andre noted in the comments, so you must have used it somewhere.
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– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:20
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How do you know that c would be 1 then?
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– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:42
4
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@achactnn: His theory was that since $c$ divides a prime number, it must be $1$. But this proof is incomplete (despite its many upvotes) because it doesn't use positivity. For example, let's use Andre's counterexample in Eepzy's answer. Let $3$ be the gcd. Then $3$ divides $9$ and $-6$, and thus $9 - 6 = 3$, a prime number. This is consistent with his reasoning, but it doesn't guarantee that $c$ would be $1$ (as written), at least not without a positivity assumption.
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– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:01
1
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@GerryMyerson: That's easy to solve: c is either 1 or (a+b) since (a+b) is prime. If a and b > 0, then a+b cannot be a divisor of a or b, thus c == 1.
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– stefan
Aug 12 '12 at 14:23
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@stefan, yes, it's easy to plug the hole in Eepzy's work - I'm just noting that there is a hole, and it needs plugging.
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– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 23:29
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Let $c$ be the gcd. Then $c$ divides $a$ and $b$, hence it divides $a+b$, a prime number.
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Let $c$ be the gcd. Then $c$ divides $a$ and $b$, hence it divides $a+b$, a prime number.
answered Aug 12 '12 at 0:04
EepzyEepzy
33814
33814
6
$begingroup$
And where have you used the hypothesis that $a$ and $b$ are positive? The result is false without that hypothesis, as Andre noted in the comments, so you must have used it somewhere.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:20
$begingroup$
How do you know that c would be 1 then?
$endgroup$
– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:42
4
$begingroup$
@achactnn: His theory was that since $c$ divides a prime number, it must be $1$. But this proof is incomplete (despite its many upvotes) because it doesn't use positivity. For example, let's use Andre's counterexample in Eepzy's answer. Let $3$ be the gcd. Then $3$ divides $9$ and $-6$, and thus $9 - 6 = 3$, a prime number. This is consistent with his reasoning, but it doesn't guarantee that $c$ would be $1$ (as written), at least not without a positivity assumption.
$endgroup$
– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:01
1
$begingroup$
@GerryMyerson: That's easy to solve: c is either 1 or (a+b) since (a+b) is prime. If a and b > 0, then a+b cannot be a divisor of a or b, thus c == 1.
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– stefan
Aug 12 '12 at 14:23
$begingroup$
@stefan, yes, it's easy to plug the hole in Eepzy's work - I'm just noting that there is a hole, and it needs plugging.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 23:29
|
show 2 more comments
6
$begingroup$
And where have you used the hypothesis that $a$ and $b$ are positive? The result is false without that hypothesis, as Andre noted in the comments, so you must have used it somewhere.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:20
$begingroup$
How do you know that c would be 1 then?
$endgroup$
– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:42
4
$begingroup$
@achactnn: His theory was that since $c$ divides a prime number, it must be $1$. But this proof is incomplete (despite its many upvotes) because it doesn't use positivity. For example, let's use Andre's counterexample in Eepzy's answer. Let $3$ be the gcd. Then $3$ divides $9$ and $-6$, and thus $9 - 6 = 3$, a prime number. This is consistent with his reasoning, but it doesn't guarantee that $c$ would be $1$ (as written), at least not without a positivity assumption.
$endgroup$
– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:01
1
$begingroup$
@GerryMyerson: That's easy to solve: c is either 1 or (a+b) since (a+b) is prime. If a and b > 0, then a+b cannot be a divisor of a or b, thus c == 1.
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– stefan
Aug 12 '12 at 14:23
$begingroup$
@stefan, yes, it's easy to plug the hole in Eepzy's work - I'm just noting that there is a hole, and it needs plugging.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 23:29
6
6
$begingroup$
And where have you used the hypothesis that $a$ and $b$ are positive? The result is false without that hypothesis, as Andre noted in the comments, so you must have used it somewhere.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:20
$begingroup$
And where have you used the hypothesis that $a$ and $b$ are positive? The result is false without that hypothesis, as Andre noted in the comments, so you must have used it somewhere.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:20
$begingroup$
How do you know that c would be 1 then?
$endgroup$
– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:42
$begingroup$
How do you know that c would be 1 then?
$endgroup$
– achacttn
Aug 12 '12 at 0:42
4
4
$begingroup$
@achactnn: His theory was that since $c$ divides a prime number, it must be $1$. But this proof is incomplete (despite its many upvotes) because it doesn't use positivity. For example, let's use Andre's counterexample in Eepzy's answer. Let $3$ be the gcd. Then $3$ divides $9$ and $-6$, and thus $9 - 6 = 3$, a prime number. This is consistent with his reasoning, but it doesn't guarantee that $c$ would be $1$ (as written), at least not without a positivity assumption.
$endgroup$
– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:01
$begingroup$
@achactnn: His theory was that since $c$ divides a prime number, it must be $1$. But this proof is incomplete (despite its many upvotes) because it doesn't use positivity. For example, let's use Andre's counterexample in Eepzy's answer. Let $3$ be the gcd. Then $3$ divides $9$ and $-6$, and thus $9 - 6 = 3$, a prime number. This is consistent with his reasoning, but it doesn't guarantee that $c$ would be $1$ (as written), at least not without a positivity assumption.
$endgroup$
– davidlowryduda♦
Aug 12 '12 at 1:01
1
1
$begingroup$
@GerryMyerson: That's easy to solve: c is either 1 or (a+b) since (a+b) is prime. If a and b > 0, then a+b cannot be a divisor of a or b, thus c == 1.
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– stefan
Aug 12 '12 at 14:23
$begingroup$
@GerryMyerson: That's easy to solve: c is either 1 or (a+b) since (a+b) is prime. If a and b > 0, then a+b cannot be a divisor of a or b, thus c == 1.
$endgroup$
– stefan
Aug 12 '12 at 14:23
$begingroup$
@stefan, yes, it's easy to plug the hole in Eepzy's work - I'm just noting that there is a hole, and it needs plugging.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 23:29
$begingroup$
@stefan, yes, it's easy to plug the hole in Eepzy's work - I'm just noting that there is a hole, and it needs plugging.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
Aug 12 '12 at 23:29
|
show 2 more comments
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Let $d$ be their gcd.
Then $d$ divides their sum $p$,
so $d$ can be only 1 or $p$.
If $d = p$, then $p$ divides both $a$ and $b$.
Since both of these are positive,
they are each at least $p$,
so their sum is at least $2p$.
I realize that this is a restatement of mixedmath's answer.
This can easily be generalized to show that
this holds for the sum of $k$ positive integers
for $k ge 2$.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $d$ be their gcd.
Then $d$ divides their sum $p$,
so $d$ can be only 1 or $p$.
If $d = p$, then $p$ divides both $a$ and $b$.
Since both of these are positive,
they are each at least $p$,
so their sum is at least $2p$.
I realize that this is a restatement of mixedmath's answer.
This can easily be generalized to show that
this holds for the sum of $k$ positive integers
for $k ge 2$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $d$ be their gcd.
Then $d$ divides their sum $p$,
so $d$ can be only 1 or $p$.
If $d = p$, then $p$ divides both $a$ and $b$.
Since both of these are positive,
they are each at least $p$,
so their sum is at least $2p$.
I realize that this is a restatement of mixedmath's answer.
This can easily be generalized to show that
this holds for the sum of $k$ positive integers
for $k ge 2$.
$endgroup$
Let $d$ be their gcd.
Then $d$ divides their sum $p$,
so $d$ can be only 1 or $p$.
If $d = p$, then $p$ divides both $a$ and $b$.
Since both of these are positive,
they are each at least $p$,
so their sum is at least $2p$.
I realize that this is a restatement of mixedmath's answer.
This can easily be generalized to show that
this holds for the sum of $k$ positive integers
for $k ge 2$.
answered Aug 12 '12 at 4:54
marty cohenmarty cohen
74.5k549129
74.5k549129
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here is a direct proof that is independent of the others:
Let $g = gcd(a,b)$. Then we can see that $$gmathbbZ = amathbbZ + bmathbbZ = nin mathbbZ .$$
In other words, $g$ generates the set of all integer combinations of $a$ and $b$. (If you are not familiar with this, it is most likely presented as a theorem in your textbook.) Since we are $a+b=p$ (given) and $a+b$ is some integer combination of $a$ and $b$, then $p$ must be in $gmathbbZ$.
If $p in gmathbbZ$, then $g$ must be equal to $1$ or $p$ (since $p$ is prime). But by the fact that $a$ and $b$ are both positive and less than $p$ (the sum of the two equals $p$), then $p$ can't possibly be the greatest common divisor, let alone a divisor of any kind. Therefore $g = 1$.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here is a direct proof that is independent of the others:
Let $g = gcd(a,b)$. Then we can see that $$gmathbbZ = amathbbZ + bmathbbZ = nin mathbbZ .$$
In other words, $g$ generates the set of all integer combinations of $a$ and $b$. (If you are not familiar with this, it is most likely presented as a theorem in your textbook.) Since we are $a+b=p$ (given) and $a+b$ is some integer combination of $a$ and $b$, then $p$ must be in $gmathbbZ$.
If $p in gmathbbZ$, then $g$ must be equal to $1$ or $p$ (since $p$ is prime). But by the fact that $a$ and $b$ are both positive and less than $p$ (the sum of the two equals $p$), then $p$ can't possibly be the greatest common divisor, let alone a divisor of any kind. Therefore $g = 1$.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here is a direct proof that is independent of the others:
Let $g = gcd(a,b)$. Then we can see that $$gmathbbZ = amathbbZ + bmathbbZ = nin mathbbZ .$$
In other words, $g$ generates the set of all integer combinations of $a$ and $b$. (If you are not familiar with this, it is most likely presented as a theorem in your textbook.) Since we are $a+b=p$ (given) and $a+b$ is some integer combination of $a$ and $b$, then $p$ must be in $gmathbbZ$.
If $p in gmathbbZ$, then $g$ must be equal to $1$ or $p$ (since $p$ is prime). But by the fact that $a$ and $b$ are both positive and less than $p$ (the sum of the two equals $p$), then $p$ can't possibly be the greatest common divisor, let alone a divisor of any kind. Therefore $g = 1$.
$endgroup$
Here is a direct proof that is independent of the others:
Let $g = gcd(a,b)$. Then we can see that $$gmathbbZ = amathbbZ + bmathbbZ = nin mathbbZ .$$
In other words, $g$ generates the set of all integer combinations of $a$ and $b$. (If you are not familiar with this, it is most likely presented as a theorem in your textbook.) Since we are $a+b=p$ (given) and $a+b$ is some integer combination of $a$ and $b$, then $p$ must be in $gmathbbZ$.
If $p in gmathbbZ$, then $g$ must be equal to $1$ or $p$ (since $p$ is prime). But by the fact that $a$ and $b$ are both positive and less than $p$ (the sum of the two equals $p$), then $p$ can't possibly be the greatest common divisor, let alone a divisor of any kind. Therefore $g = 1$.
answered May 14 '13 at 0:27
AlanHAlanH
1,52412245
1,52412245
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $a,b$ are positive integers whose sum is a prime, $p$. Then $a+b = p$. Also, because $a, b$ are both positive integers that add up to $p$, then $a,b < p$. This implies that $gcd(a,p) = 1$ and $gcd(b,p) = 1$. Thus we can write 1 as a linear combination of both $a$ and $p$ or $b$ and $p$. Let us do it the first way. $ax + py = 1$ for some $x, y in mathbbZ$. From our original assumption, $a+b = p$. Thus we can substitute. $ax + (a+b)y = 1$. This implies $ax + ay +by = 1$. Grouping like terms we get $a(x+y) + b(y) = 1$. Thus 1 can be written as a linear combination of $a$ and $b$. This implies that $gcd(a,b) = 1$. We have shown what we wanted to show.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $a,b$ are positive integers whose sum is a prime, $p$. Then $a+b = p$. Also, because $a, b$ are both positive integers that add up to $p$, then $a,b < p$. This implies that $gcd(a,p) = 1$ and $gcd(b,p) = 1$. Thus we can write 1 as a linear combination of both $a$ and $p$ or $b$ and $p$. Let us do it the first way. $ax + py = 1$ for some $x, y in mathbbZ$. From our original assumption, $a+b = p$. Thus we can substitute. $ax + (a+b)y = 1$. This implies $ax + ay +by = 1$. Grouping like terms we get $a(x+y) + b(y) = 1$. Thus 1 can be written as a linear combination of $a$ and $b$. This implies that $gcd(a,b) = 1$. We have shown what we wanted to show.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $a,b$ are positive integers whose sum is a prime, $p$. Then $a+b = p$. Also, because $a, b$ are both positive integers that add up to $p$, then $a,b < p$. This implies that $gcd(a,p) = 1$ and $gcd(b,p) = 1$. Thus we can write 1 as a linear combination of both $a$ and $p$ or $b$ and $p$. Let us do it the first way. $ax + py = 1$ for some $x, y in mathbbZ$. From our original assumption, $a+b = p$. Thus we can substitute. $ax + (a+b)y = 1$. This implies $ax + ay +by = 1$. Grouping like terms we get $a(x+y) + b(y) = 1$. Thus 1 can be written as a linear combination of $a$ and $b$. This implies that $gcd(a,b) = 1$. We have shown what we wanted to show.
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Suppose $a,b$ are positive integers whose sum is a prime, $p$. Then $a+b = p$. Also, because $a, b$ are both positive integers that add up to $p$, then $a,b < p$. This implies that $gcd(a,p) = 1$ and $gcd(b,p) = 1$. Thus we can write 1 as a linear combination of both $a$ and $p$ or $b$ and $p$. Let us do it the first way. $ax + py = 1$ for some $x, y in mathbbZ$. From our original assumption, $a+b = p$. Thus we can substitute. $ax + (a+b)y = 1$. This implies $ax + ay +by = 1$. Grouping like terms we get $a(x+y) + b(y) = 1$. Thus 1 can be written as a linear combination of $a$ and $b$. This implies that $gcd(a,b) = 1$. We have shown what we wanted to show.
answered Feb 4 '14 at 22:28
JesseJesse
11
11
add a comment |
add a comment |
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let prime p=a+b, a and b positive
Suppose gcd(a,b)=s, $sne 1$
Then s divides a and s divides b, so there are some m,n such that a=sm and b=sn
then $a+b=sm+sn=s(m+n)$, which shows that s is a factor of a+b
so s is a factor of p. Contradiction.
The way out for negatives is that, in the above example, 3 is a factor of p, since it is p itself. So there is no contradiction in that case.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
let prime p=a+b, a and b positive
Suppose gcd(a,b)=s, $sne 1$
Then s divides a and s divides b, so there are some m,n such that a=sm and b=sn
then $a+b=sm+sn=s(m+n)$, which shows that s is a factor of a+b
so s is a factor of p. Contradiction.
The way out for negatives is that, in the above example, 3 is a factor of p, since it is p itself. So there is no contradiction in that case.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
let prime p=a+b, a and b positive
Suppose gcd(a,b)=s, $sne 1$
Then s divides a and s divides b, so there are some m,n such that a=sm and b=sn
then $a+b=sm+sn=s(m+n)$, which shows that s is a factor of a+b
so s is a factor of p. Contradiction.
The way out for negatives is that, in the above example, 3 is a factor of p, since it is p itself. So there is no contradiction in that case.
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let prime p=a+b, a and b positive
Suppose gcd(a,b)=s, $sne 1$
Then s divides a and s divides b, so there are some m,n such that a=sm and b=sn
then $a+b=sm+sn=s(m+n)$, which shows that s is a factor of a+b
so s is a factor of p. Contradiction.
The way out for negatives is that, in the above example, 3 is a factor of p, since it is p itself. So there is no contradiction in that case.
answered Oct 30 '14 at 17:00
Aaron HorakAaron Horak
1347
1347
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Complete short proof:
Let $gcd(a,b)=d$. Then, $d mid a$ and $d mid b$. Thus, $d mid a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$ or $d=p$. Since $d mid a$, $dle a<a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Complete short proof:
Let $gcd(a,b)=d$. Then, $d mid a$ and $d mid b$. Thus, $d mid a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$ or $d=p$. Since $d mid a$, $dle a<a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Complete short proof:
Let $gcd(a,b)=d$. Then, $d mid a$ and $d mid b$. Thus, $d mid a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$ or $d=p$. Since $d mid a$, $dle a<a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$.
$endgroup$
Complete short proof:
Let $gcd(a,b)=d$. Then, $d mid a$ and $d mid b$. Thus, $d mid a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$ or $d=p$. Since $d mid a$, $dle a<a+b=p$. Thus, $d=1$.
edited Oct 10 '18 at 11:16
Martin Sleziak
44.9k10122275
44.9k10122275
answered Oct 3 '18 at 1:00
Jeb_is_a_messJeb_is_a_mess
306
306
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As $(a,b) mid a$ and $(a,b) mid b, (a,b) mid (pa+qb)$ where a,b,p,q are integers.
If (a,b) is not prime, $pa+qb$ can not be prime.
So, if $pa+qb$ is prime, (a,b) must be.
But there exists, p,q of opposite parity such that $(a,b)=pa+qb$ (which is Bézout's Identity).
In that case, primality nature of $pa+qb$ will be dictated by that of $(a,b)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As $(a,b) mid a$ and $(a,b) mid b, (a,b) mid (pa+qb)$ where a,b,p,q are integers.
If (a,b) is not prime, $pa+qb$ can not be prime.
So, if $pa+qb$ is prime, (a,b) must be.
But there exists, p,q of opposite parity such that $(a,b)=pa+qb$ (which is Bézout's Identity).
In that case, primality nature of $pa+qb$ will be dictated by that of $(a,b)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As $(a,b) mid a$ and $(a,b) mid b, (a,b) mid (pa+qb)$ where a,b,p,q are integers.
If (a,b) is not prime, $pa+qb$ can not be prime.
So, if $pa+qb$ is prime, (a,b) must be.
But there exists, p,q of opposite parity such that $(a,b)=pa+qb$ (which is Bézout's Identity).
In that case, primality nature of $pa+qb$ will be dictated by that of $(a,b)$.
$endgroup$
As $(a,b) mid a$ and $(a,b) mid b, (a,b) mid (pa+qb)$ where a,b,p,q are integers.
If (a,b) is not prime, $pa+qb$ can not be prime.
So, if $pa+qb$ is prime, (a,b) must be.
But there exists, p,q of opposite parity such that $(a,b)=pa+qb$ (which is Bézout's Identity).
In that case, primality nature of $pa+qb$ will be dictated by that of $(a,b)$.
edited Oct 10 '18 at 11:16
Martin Sleziak
44.9k10122275
44.9k10122275
answered Aug 12 '12 at 5:36
lab bhattacharjeelab bhattacharjee
227k15158276
227k15158276
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$$1=gcd(p,a)=gcd(a+b,a)=gcd(a,b)$$
The last step follows from $gcd(b+ma,a)=gcd(a,b)$ for any integer $m$. The first step follows from $a<p$. Any particular reason someone voted to delete this answer?
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
$$1=gcd(p,a)=gcd(a+b,a)=gcd(a,b)$$
The last step follows from $gcd(b+ma,a)=gcd(a,b)$ for any integer $m$. The first step follows from $a<p$. Any particular reason someone voted to delete this answer?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$$1=gcd(p,a)=gcd(a+b,a)=gcd(a,b)$$
The last step follows from $gcd(b+ma,a)=gcd(a,b)$ for any integer $m$. The first step follows from $a<p$. Any particular reason someone voted to delete this answer?
$endgroup$
$$1=gcd(p,a)=gcd(a+b,a)=gcd(a,b)$$
The last step follows from $gcd(b+ma,a)=gcd(a,b)$ for any integer $m$. The first step follows from $a<p$. Any particular reason someone voted to delete this answer?
edited Oct 10 '18 at 14:16
answered Oct 10 '18 at 9:44
user198044
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Edited:
I know it’s an old question, but since certain aspects of prior answers came across as arguably being like a second language, I figured some future readers who, like me, don’t have advanced math might benefit from a more basic approach to the OP’s requested “pointers” for “how to start a formal proof”:
For primes p > q , and positive integers m and n that are generally coprime but either or both of which can be 1, one can never have p = mq + nq because that would mean p/q = m + n . (Conversely, it would seem that any composite c would have at least one way of satisfying c = mq + nq).
I don’t mean any disrespect to the prior answers, but my aging brain cells prefer this kind of simplicity. :-)
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This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
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– Leucippus
Feb 23 at 2:15
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@Leucippus, Would it be acceptable for me to ask a separate question (perhaps tagged with “intuition”) to raise the issue of whether this question would be validly answered with a seemingly simpler answer? Or should I just seek a more discussion-based site?
$endgroup$
– PrimeNumberHobbyist
Feb 23 at 14:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Edited:
I know it’s an old question, but since certain aspects of prior answers came across as arguably being like a second language, I figured some future readers who, like me, don’t have advanced math might benefit from a more basic approach to the OP’s requested “pointers” for “how to start a formal proof”:
For primes p > q , and positive integers m and n that are generally coprime but either or both of which can be 1, one can never have p = mq + nq because that would mean p/q = m + n . (Conversely, it would seem that any composite c would have at least one way of satisfying c = mq + nq).
I don’t mean any disrespect to the prior answers, but my aging brain cells prefer this kind of simplicity. :-)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
$endgroup$
– Leucippus
Feb 23 at 2:15
$begingroup$
@Leucippus, Would it be acceptable for me to ask a separate question (perhaps tagged with “intuition”) to raise the issue of whether this question would be validly answered with a seemingly simpler answer? Or should I just seek a more discussion-based site?
$endgroup$
– PrimeNumberHobbyist
Feb 23 at 14:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Edited:
I know it’s an old question, but since certain aspects of prior answers came across as arguably being like a second language, I figured some future readers who, like me, don’t have advanced math might benefit from a more basic approach to the OP’s requested “pointers” for “how to start a formal proof”:
For primes p > q , and positive integers m and n that are generally coprime but either or both of which can be 1, one can never have p = mq + nq because that would mean p/q = m + n . (Conversely, it would seem that any composite c would have at least one way of satisfying c = mq + nq).
I don’t mean any disrespect to the prior answers, but my aging brain cells prefer this kind of simplicity. :-)
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Edited:
I know it’s an old question, but since certain aspects of prior answers came across as arguably being like a second language, I figured some future readers who, like me, don’t have advanced math might benefit from a more basic approach to the OP’s requested “pointers” for “how to start a formal proof”:
For primes p > q , and positive integers m and n that are generally coprime but either or both of which can be 1, one can never have p = mq + nq because that would mean p/q = m + n . (Conversely, it would seem that any composite c would have at least one way of satisfying c = mq + nq).
I don’t mean any disrespect to the prior answers, but my aging brain cells prefer this kind of simplicity. :-)
edited Mar 16 at 4:08
answered Feb 23 at 0:40
PrimeNumberHobbyistPrimeNumberHobbyist
13
13
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This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
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– Leucippus
Feb 23 at 2:15
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@Leucippus, Would it be acceptable for me to ask a separate question (perhaps tagged with “intuition”) to raise the issue of whether this question would be validly answered with a seemingly simpler answer? Or should I just seek a more discussion-based site?
$endgroup$
– PrimeNumberHobbyist
Feb 23 at 14:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
$endgroup$
– Leucippus
Feb 23 at 2:15
$begingroup$
@Leucippus, Would it be acceptable for me to ask a separate question (perhaps tagged with “intuition”) to raise the issue of whether this question would be validly answered with a seemingly simpler answer? Or should I just seek a more discussion-based site?
$endgroup$
– PrimeNumberHobbyist
Feb 23 at 14:40
$begingroup$
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
$endgroup$
– Leucippus
Feb 23 at 2:15
$begingroup$
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
$endgroup$
– Leucippus
Feb 23 at 2:15
$begingroup$
@Leucippus, Would it be acceptable for me to ask a separate question (perhaps tagged with “intuition”) to raise the issue of whether this question would be validly answered with a seemingly simpler answer? Or should I just seek a more discussion-based site?
$endgroup$
– PrimeNumberHobbyist
Feb 23 at 14:40
$begingroup$
@Leucippus, Would it be acceptable for me to ask a separate question (perhaps tagged with “intuition”) to raise the issue of whether this question would be validly answered with a seemingly simpler answer? Or should I just seek a more discussion-based site?
$endgroup$
– PrimeNumberHobbyist
Feb 23 at 14:40
add a comment |
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Hint: The gcd can't be $a+b$, but must divide $a+b$.
$endgroup$
– Geoff Robinson
Aug 12 '12 at 0:09
7
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Note that positive does need to be used. For $gcd(9,-6)=3$, and $9+(-6)$ is prime.
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– André Nicolas
Aug 12 '12 at 0:10