What is the meaning of “so” in 1 John in Luther’s Bible (1912)? The Next CEO of Stack OverflowHow do you say “I walked in the park” in German?A joke from “The Magic Mountain”/“Der Zauberberg” translated into English?Translation of “Und ob”“dass alle unsere Bewusstheit sich auf Irrthümer bezieht” – meaning of “sich beziehen”Is there any difference between “aber” und “sondern” (as “Konnektoren”)?“Guten Willen” bei NietzscheHow to translate “ernsten Oper” in NietzscheTranslations for Weather-Descriptionsneben der Kappe seinSentence Structure in “Wir wollen uns nun Vokabeln zu darstellender Kunst ansehen.”

Make solar eclipses exceedingly rare, but still have new moons

TikZ: How to reverse arrow direction without switching start/end point?

A small doubt about the dominated convergence theorem

Is it okay to majorly distort historical facts while writing a fiction story?

What flight has the highest ratio of timezone difference to flight time?

Chain wire methods together in Lightning Web Components

Does Germany produce more waste than the US?

Flying from Cape Town to England and return to another province

Is it possible to replace duplicates of a character with one character using tr

Axiom Schema vs Axiom

Is the D&D universe the same as the Forgotten Realms universe?

Where do students learn to solve polynomial equations these days?

Poetry, calligrams and TikZ/PStricks challenge

What happened in Rome, when the western empire "fell"?

Would this house-rule that treats advantage as a +1 to the roll instead (and disadvantage as -1) and allows them to stack be balanced?

How to avoid supervisors with prejudiced views?

Writing differences on a blackboard

Why didn't Khan get resurrected in the Genesis Explosion?

Can Plant Growth be repeatedly cast on the same area to exponentially increase the yield of harvests there (more than twice)?

When you upcast Blindness/Deafness, do all targets suffer the same effect?

Why don't programming languages automatically manage the synchronous/asynchronous problem?

Why is the US ranked as #45 in Press Freedom ratings, despite its extremely permissive free speech laws?

Is it my responsibility to learn a new technology in my own time my employer wants to implement?

Won the lottery - how do I keep the money?



What is the meaning of “so” in 1 John in Luther’s Bible (1912)?



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowHow do you say “I walked in the park” in German?A joke from “The Magic Mountain”/“Der Zauberberg” translated into English?Translation of “Und ob”“dass alle unsere Bewusstheit sich auf Irrthümer bezieht” – meaning of “sich beziehen”Is there any difference between “aber” und “sondern” (as “Konnektoren”)?“Guten Willen” bei NietzscheHow to translate “ernsten Oper” in NietzscheTranslations for Weather-Descriptionsneben der Kappe seinSentence Structure in “Wir wollen uns nun Vokabeln zu darstellender Kunst ansehen.”










7















I am trying to work on my German skills (very rusty after years of disuse), and I am reading the 1912 Lutherbibel alongside my English Standard Version as well as the NA28 (original Greek).



In 1 John 1:6-10, the NA28 reads as follows:




6 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι κοινωνίαν ἔχομεν μετʼ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐν τῷ
σκότει περιπατῶμεν, ψευδόμεθα καὶ οὐ ποιοῦμεν τὴν ἀλήθειαν·



7 ἐὰν ἐν τῷ φωτὶ περιπατῶμεν, ὡς αὐτός ἐστιν ἐν τῷ
φωτί, κοινωνίαν ἔχομεν μετʼ ἀλλήλων, καὶ τὸ αἷμα Ἰησοῦ
τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ καθαρίζει ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἁμαρτίας.



8 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἔχομεν, ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν
καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.



9 ἐὰν ὁμολογῶμεν τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν, πιστός ἐστιν καὶ δίκαιος, ἵνα ἀφῇ
ἡμῖν τὰς ἁμαρτίας καὶ καθαρίσῃ ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἀδικίας.



10 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι οὐχ ἡμαρτήκαμεν, ψεύστην
ποιοῦμεν αὐτόν, καὶ ὁ λόγος αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.




The ESV (which I believe translates it well) reads as follows:




6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.



7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.



8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




The 1912 Lutherbibel reads as follows:




  1. So wir sagen, daß wir Gemeinschaft mit ihm haben, und wandeln in Finsternis, so lügen wir und tun nicht die Wahrheit.


  2. So wir aber im Licht wandeln, wie er im Lichte ist, so haben wir Gemeinschaft untereinander, und das Blut JEsu Christi, seines Sohnes, macht uns rein von aller Sünde.


  3. So wir sagen, wir haben keine Sünde, so verführen wir uns selbst, und die Wahrheit ist nicht in uns.


  4. So wir aber unsere Sünde bekennen, so ist er treu und gerecht, daß er uns die Sünde vergibt und reiniget uns von aller Untugend.


  5. So wir sagen, wir haben nicht gesündiget, so machen wir ihn zum Lügner, und sein Wort ist nicht in uns.




As you can see, there’s a lot of repetition in this passage. My question relates to the way that the ἐὰν conditionals are translated. From my understanding of how they function in the Greek, the English translation of “If we say/walk/confess…” is good.



From my memory of the German I learned, I would have expected to see “Wenn wir sagen/gehen/etc…”, so I was surprised to see the “So wir…” construction. It’s not one with which I’m familiar, and due to the word “so” being identical to the English word “so”, I’m having a hard time googling it.



Can someone give me a resource that explains this construction?










share|improve this question



















  • 12





    You should be aware that the German used in the Luther-Bible is often a bit old-fashioned or even outdated, compared to modern standard German. If you just want to read the Bible in German, go ahead, but if your goal is to polish and/or improve your German, I'd recommend working with modern literature/movies etc as well.

    – Arsak
    Mar 19 at 12:26











  • You can imagine it being a short form of "sofern", and could translate it as "so far as..." or perhaps "insofar as ..."; that may make it more understandable how "so" could have a conditional function.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    Mar 19 at 12:41






  • 1





    ... or use a more recent translation, such as the Einheitsübersetzung.

    – PMF
    Mar 19 at 14:01






  • 3





    Möge er nur sprechen wie Luther es in der Bibel that! Der Effekt wäre fürwahr ein trefflicher!

    – Christian Geiselmann
    Mar 19 at 19:34






  • 2





    To elaborate on the comment from @Arsak, you are making a mistake when you are referring to a 1912 Luther Bible. 1912 probably refers to the date it was printed. The Luther Bible is to Germany as the King James version is to the English-language realm, except that it is about 200 years older than the KJ Bible. Martin Luther actually translated it in 1534, just a few years after Columbus. There have been minor updates since then, but only enough to keep it from being incomprehensible. Using a nearly 500-year-old text is probably not your best choice if you are trying to learn the language.

    – Kevin Keane
    Mar 20 at 5:33
















7















I am trying to work on my German skills (very rusty after years of disuse), and I am reading the 1912 Lutherbibel alongside my English Standard Version as well as the NA28 (original Greek).



In 1 John 1:6-10, the NA28 reads as follows:




6 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι κοινωνίαν ἔχομεν μετʼ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐν τῷ
σκότει περιπατῶμεν, ψευδόμεθα καὶ οὐ ποιοῦμεν τὴν ἀλήθειαν·



7 ἐὰν ἐν τῷ φωτὶ περιπατῶμεν, ὡς αὐτός ἐστιν ἐν τῷ
φωτί, κοινωνίαν ἔχομεν μετʼ ἀλλήλων, καὶ τὸ αἷμα Ἰησοῦ
τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ καθαρίζει ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἁμαρτίας.



8 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἔχομεν, ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν
καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.



9 ἐὰν ὁμολογῶμεν τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν, πιστός ἐστιν καὶ δίκαιος, ἵνα ἀφῇ
ἡμῖν τὰς ἁμαρτίας καὶ καθαρίσῃ ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἀδικίας.



10 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι οὐχ ἡμαρτήκαμεν, ψεύστην
ποιοῦμεν αὐτόν, καὶ ὁ λόγος αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.




The ESV (which I believe translates it well) reads as follows:




6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.



7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.



8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




The 1912 Lutherbibel reads as follows:




  1. So wir sagen, daß wir Gemeinschaft mit ihm haben, und wandeln in Finsternis, so lügen wir und tun nicht die Wahrheit.


  2. So wir aber im Licht wandeln, wie er im Lichte ist, so haben wir Gemeinschaft untereinander, und das Blut JEsu Christi, seines Sohnes, macht uns rein von aller Sünde.


  3. So wir sagen, wir haben keine Sünde, so verführen wir uns selbst, und die Wahrheit ist nicht in uns.


  4. So wir aber unsere Sünde bekennen, so ist er treu und gerecht, daß er uns die Sünde vergibt und reiniget uns von aller Untugend.


  5. So wir sagen, wir haben nicht gesündiget, so machen wir ihn zum Lügner, und sein Wort ist nicht in uns.




As you can see, there’s a lot of repetition in this passage. My question relates to the way that the ἐὰν conditionals are translated. From my understanding of how they function in the Greek, the English translation of “If we say/walk/confess…” is good.



From my memory of the German I learned, I would have expected to see “Wenn wir sagen/gehen/etc…”, so I was surprised to see the “So wir…” construction. It’s not one with which I’m familiar, and due to the word “so” being identical to the English word “so”, I’m having a hard time googling it.



Can someone give me a resource that explains this construction?










share|improve this question



















  • 12





    You should be aware that the German used in the Luther-Bible is often a bit old-fashioned or even outdated, compared to modern standard German. If you just want to read the Bible in German, go ahead, but if your goal is to polish and/or improve your German, I'd recommend working with modern literature/movies etc as well.

    – Arsak
    Mar 19 at 12:26











  • You can imagine it being a short form of "sofern", and could translate it as "so far as..." or perhaps "insofar as ..."; that may make it more understandable how "so" could have a conditional function.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    Mar 19 at 12:41






  • 1





    ... or use a more recent translation, such as the Einheitsübersetzung.

    – PMF
    Mar 19 at 14:01






  • 3





    Möge er nur sprechen wie Luther es in der Bibel that! Der Effekt wäre fürwahr ein trefflicher!

    – Christian Geiselmann
    Mar 19 at 19:34






  • 2





    To elaborate on the comment from @Arsak, you are making a mistake when you are referring to a 1912 Luther Bible. 1912 probably refers to the date it was printed. The Luther Bible is to Germany as the King James version is to the English-language realm, except that it is about 200 years older than the KJ Bible. Martin Luther actually translated it in 1534, just a few years after Columbus. There have been minor updates since then, but only enough to keep it from being incomprehensible. Using a nearly 500-year-old text is probably not your best choice if you are trying to learn the language.

    – Kevin Keane
    Mar 20 at 5:33














7












7








7


1






I am trying to work on my German skills (very rusty after years of disuse), and I am reading the 1912 Lutherbibel alongside my English Standard Version as well as the NA28 (original Greek).



In 1 John 1:6-10, the NA28 reads as follows:




6 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι κοινωνίαν ἔχομεν μετʼ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐν τῷ
σκότει περιπατῶμεν, ψευδόμεθα καὶ οὐ ποιοῦμεν τὴν ἀλήθειαν·



7 ἐὰν ἐν τῷ φωτὶ περιπατῶμεν, ὡς αὐτός ἐστιν ἐν τῷ
φωτί, κοινωνίαν ἔχομεν μετʼ ἀλλήλων, καὶ τὸ αἷμα Ἰησοῦ
τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ καθαρίζει ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἁμαρτίας.



8 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἔχομεν, ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν
καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.



9 ἐὰν ὁμολογῶμεν τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν, πιστός ἐστιν καὶ δίκαιος, ἵνα ἀφῇ
ἡμῖν τὰς ἁμαρτίας καὶ καθαρίσῃ ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἀδικίας.



10 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι οὐχ ἡμαρτήκαμεν, ψεύστην
ποιοῦμεν αὐτόν, καὶ ὁ λόγος αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.




The ESV (which I believe translates it well) reads as follows:




6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.



7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.



8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




The 1912 Lutherbibel reads as follows:




  1. So wir sagen, daß wir Gemeinschaft mit ihm haben, und wandeln in Finsternis, so lügen wir und tun nicht die Wahrheit.


  2. So wir aber im Licht wandeln, wie er im Lichte ist, so haben wir Gemeinschaft untereinander, und das Blut JEsu Christi, seines Sohnes, macht uns rein von aller Sünde.


  3. So wir sagen, wir haben keine Sünde, so verführen wir uns selbst, und die Wahrheit ist nicht in uns.


  4. So wir aber unsere Sünde bekennen, so ist er treu und gerecht, daß er uns die Sünde vergibt und reiniget uns von aller Untugend.


  5. So wir sagen, wir haben nicht gesündiget, so machen wir ihn zum Lügner, und sein Wort ist nicht in uns.




As you can see, there’s a lot of repetition in this passage. My question relates to the way that the ἐὰν conditionals are translated. From my understanding of how they function in the Greek, the English translation of “If we say/walk/confess…” is good.



From my memory of the German I learned, I would have expected to see “Wenn wir sagen/gehen/etc…”, so I was surprised to see the “So wir…” construction. It’s not one with which I’m familiar, and due to the word “so” being identical to the English word “so”, I’m having a hard time googling it.



Can someone give me a resource that explains this construction?










share|improve this question
















I am trying to work on my German skills (very rusty after years of disuse), and I am reading the 1912 Lutherbibel alongside my English Standard Version as well as the NA28 (original Greek).



In 1 John 1:6-10, the NA28 reads as follows:




6 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι κοινωνίαν ἔχομεν μετʼ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐν τῷ
σκότει περιπατῶμεν, ψευδόμεθα καὶ οὐ ποιοῦμεν τὴν ἀλήθειαν·



7 ἐὰν ἐν τῷ φωτὶ περιπατῶμεν, ὡς αὐτός ἐστιν ἐν τῷ
φωτί, κοινωνίαν ἔχομεν μετʼ ἀλλήλων, καὶ τὸ αἷμα Ἰησοῦ
τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ καθαρίζει ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἁμαρτίας.



8 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἔχομεν, ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν
καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.



9 ἐὰν ὁμολογῶμεν τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν, πιστός ἐστιν καὶ δίκαιος, ἵνα ἀφῇ
ἡμῖν τὰς ἁμαρτίας καὶ καθαρίσῃ ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἀδικίας.



10 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι οὐχ ἡμαρτήκαμεν, ψεύστην
ποιοῦμεν αὐτόν, καὶ ὁ λόγος αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.




The ESV (which I believe translates it well) reads as follows:




6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.



7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.



8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




The 1912 Lutherbibel reads as follows:




  1. So wir sagen, daß wir Gemeinschaft mit ihm haben, und wandeln in Finsternis, so lügen wir und tun nicht die Wahrheit.


  2. So wir aber im Licht wandeln, wie er im Lichte ist, so haben wir Gemeinschaft untereinander, und das Blut JEsu Christi, seines Sohnes, macht uns rein von aller Sünde.


  3. So wir sagen, wir haben keine Sünde, so verführen wir uns selbst, und die Wahrheit ist nicht in uns.


  4. So wir aber unsere Sünde bekennen, so ist er treu und gerecht, daß er uns die Sünde vergibt und reiniget uns von aller Untugend.


  5. So wir sagen, wir haben nicht gesündiget, so machen wir ihn zum Lügner, und sein Wort ist nicht in uns.




As you can see, there’s a lot of repetition in this passage. My question relates to the way that the ἐὰν conditionals are translated. From my understanding of how they function in the Greek, the English translation of “If we say/walk/confess…” is good.



From my memory of the German I learned, I would have expected to see “Wenn wir sagen/gehen/etc…”, so I was surprised to see the “So wir…” construction. It’s not one with which I’m familiar, and due to the word “so” being identical to the English word “so”, I’m having a hard time googling it.



Can someone give me a resource that explains this construction?







translation






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Mar 20 at 11:39









LangLangC

5,46311141




5,46311141










asked Mar 19 at 11:09









mbm29414mbm29414

1384




1384







  • 12





    You should be aware that the German used in the Luther-Bible is often a bit old-fashioned or even outdated, compared to modern standard German. If you just want to read the Bible in German, go ahead, but if your goal is to polish and/or improve your German, I'd recommend working with modern literature/movies etc as well.

    – Arsak
    Mar 19 at 12:26











  • You can imagine it being a short form of "sofern", and could translate it as "so far as..." or perhaps "insofar as ..."; that may make it more understandable how "so" could have a conditional function.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    Mar 19 at 12:41






  • 1





    ... or use a more recent translation, such as the Einheitsübersetzung.

    – PMF
    Mar 19 at 14:01






  • 3





    Möge er nur sprechen wie Luther es in der Bibel that! Der Effekt wäre fürwahr ein trefflicher!

    – Christian Geiselmann
    Mar 19 at 19:34






  • 2





    To elaborate on the comment from @Arsak, you are making a mistake when you are referring to a 1912 Luther Bible. 1912 probably refers to the date it was printed. The Luther Bible is to Germany as the King James version is to the English-language realm, except that it is about 200 years older than the KJ Bible. Martin Luther actually translated it in 1534, just a few years after Columbus. There have been minor updates since then, but only enough to keep it from being incomprehensible. Using a nearly 500-year-old text is probably not your best choice if you are trying to learn the language.

    – Kevin Keane
    Mar 20 at 5:33













  • 12





    You should be aware that the German used in the Luther-Bible is often a bit old-fashioned or even outdated, compared to modern standard German. If you just want to read the Bible in German, go ahead, but if your goal is to polish and/or improve your German, I'd recommend working with modern literature/movies etc as well.

    – Arsak
    Mar 19 at 12:26











  • You can imagine it being a short form of "sofern", and could translate it as "so far as..." or perhaps "insofar as ..."; that may make it more understandable how "so" could have a conditional function.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    Mar 19 at 12:41






  • 1





    ... or use a more recent translation, such as the Einheitsübersetzung.

    – PMF
    Mar 19 at 14:01






  • 3





    Möge er nur sprechen wie Luther es in der Bibel that! Der Effekt wäre fürwahr ein trefflicher!

    – Christian Geiselmann
    Mar 19 at 19:34






  • 2





    To elaborate on the comment from @Arsak, you are making a mistake when you are referring to a 1912 Luther Bible. 1912 probably refers to the date it was printed. The Luther Bible is to Germany as the King James version is to the English-language realm, except that it is about 200 years older than the KJ Bible. Martin Luther actually translated it in 1534, just a few years after Columbus. There have been minor updates since then, but only enough to keep it from being incomprehensible. Using a nearly 500-year-old text is probably not your best choice if you are trying to learn the language.

    – Kevin Keane
    Mar 20 at 5:33








12




12





You should be aware that the German used in the Luther-Bible is often a bit old-fashioned or even outdated, compared to modern standard German. If you just want to read the Bible in German, go ahead, but if your goal is to polish and/or improve your German, I'd recommend working with modern literature/movies etc as well.

– Arsak
Mar 19 at 12:26





You should be aware that the German used in the Luther-Bible is often a bit old-fashioned or even outdated, compared to modern standard German. If you just want to read the Bible in German, go ahead, but if your goal is to polish and/or improve your German, I'd recommend working with modern literature/movies etc as well.

– Arsak
Mar 19 at 12:26













You can imagine it being a short form of "sofern", and could translate it as "so far as..." or perhaps "insofar as ..."; that may make it more understandable how "so" could have a conditional function.

– Peter A. Schneider
Mar 19 at 12:41





You can imagine it being a short form of "sofern", and could translate it as "so far as..." or perhaps "insofar as ..."; that may make it more understandable how "so" could have a conditional function.

– Peter A. Schneider
Mar 19 at 12:41




1




1





... or use a more recent translation, such as the Einheitsübersetzung.

– PMF
Mar 19 at 14:01





... or use a more recent translation, such as the Einheitsübersetzung.

– PMF
Mar 19 at 14:01




3




3





Möge er nur sprechen wie Luther es in der Bibel that! Der Effekt wäre fürwahr ein trefflicher!

– Christian Geiselmann
Mar 19 at 19:34





Möge er nur sprechen wie Luther es in der Bibel that! Der Effekt wäre fürwahr ein trefflicher!

– Christian Geiselmann
Mar 19 at 19:34




2




2





To elaborate on the comment from @Arsak, you are making a mistake when you are referring to a 1912 Luther Bible. 1912 probably refers to the date it was printed. The Luther Bible is to Germany as the King James version is to the English-language realm, except that it is about 200 years older than the KJ Bible. Martin Luther actually translated it in 1534, just a few years after Columbus. There have been minor updates since then, but only enough to keep it from being incomprehensible. Using a nearly 500-year-old text is probably not your best choice if you are trying to learn the language.

– Kevin Keane
Mar 20 at 5:33






To elaborate on the comment from @Arsak, you are making a mistake when you are referring to a 1912 Luther Bible. 1912 probably refers to the date it was printed. The Luther Bible is to Germany as the King James version is to the English-language realm, except that it is about 200 years older than the KJ Bible. Martin Luther actually translated it in 1534, just a few years after Columbus. There have been minor updates since then, but only enough to keep it from being incomprehensible. Using a nearly 500-year-old text is probably not your best choice if you are trying to learn the language.

– Kevin Keane
Mar 20 at 5:33











3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















16














You're observing a rather uncommon meaning of "so" in German. This word can occasionally mean if. At dwds.de you find an overview about the many meanings of so.





  1. leitet einen konditionalen Gliedsatz ein



    veraltet, gehoben wenn, sofern



    Beispiele:



    • so Gott will, sehen wir uns nächstes Jahr wieder

    • warum sie, so sie mich wirklich liebt, kein Geständnis von mir braucht, daß ich ihr verschollener Gatte sei [Frisch, Stiller, 485]







share|improve this answer




















  • 4





    The last one is the proper reference. Why don't you simply delete the first quote since it has nothing to do with the bible passage.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    Mar 19 at 12:38


















3














As often, you can find the answer in an online dictionary: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/so_obwohl_falls




2) (gehoben) falls




(elevated) if






share|improve this answer























  • But how would the asker determine the correct choice?

    – Stephie
    Mar 19 at 13:34






  • 2





    The same as Germans do. From context.

    – infinitezero
    Mar 19 at 20:00


















1














The ESV passage




6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




Is indeed rendered quite differently if you compare it to the recent version of the so-called "Luther-text" (2017)




6 Wenn wir sagen, dass wir Gemeinschaft mit ihm haben, und wandeln doch in der Finsternis, so lügen wir und tun nicht die Wahrheit.

7 Wenn wir aber im Licht wandeln, wie er im Licht ist, so haben wir Gemeinschaft untereinander, und das Blut Jesu, seines Sohnes, macht uns rein von aller Sünde.

8 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben keine Sünde, so betrügen wir uns selbst, und die Wahrheit ist nicht in uns.

9 Wenn wir aber unsre Sünden bekennen, so ist er treu und gerecht, dass er uns die Sünden vergibt und reinigt uns von aller Ungerechtigkeit.

10 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben nicht gesündigt, so machen wir ihn zum Lügner, und sein Wort ist nicht in uns.




Luther himself wrote it different than the 1912 version in 1545:




6 So wir sa [383a] gen / das wir Gemeinschafft mit jm haben /vnd wandeln im finsternis / So liegen wir / vnd thun nicht die warheit.

7 So wir aber im Liecht wandeln /wie er im liecht ist / So haben wir gemeinschafft vnternander / Vnd das blut Jhesu Christi seines Sons /machet vns rein von aller sünde.

8 So wir sagen / Wir haben keine sünde / So verfüren wir vns selbs / vnd die warheit ist nicht in vns.

9 So wir aber vnsere sünde bekennen / so ist er trew vnd gerecht / das er vns die sünde vergibt / vnd reiniget vns von aller vntugent.

10 So wir sagen / wir haben nicht gesündiget / So machen wir jn zum Lügener / vnd sein wort ist nicht in vns.




That explains two things: even German readers are now rather unfamiliar with this construction,

and an old dictionary even gives 1 Joh as an example for




wie conditionales wenn: […] 1 Joh. 4, 20; dafur jr sagen soltet, so der herr wil, und wir leben, wollen wir dis oder das thun







share|improve this answer























    Your Answer








    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "253"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgerman.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f50208%2fwhat-is-the-meaning-of-so-in-1-john-in-luther-s-bible-1912%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    16














    You're observing a rather uncommon meaning of "so" in German. This word can occasionally mean if. At dwds.de you find an overview about the many meanings of so.





    1. leitet einen konditionalen Gliedsatz ein



      veraltet, gehoben wenn, sofern



      Beispiele:



      • so Gott will, sehen wir uns nächstes Jahr wieder

      • warum sie, so sie mich wirklich liebt, kein Geständnis von mir braucht, daß ich ihr verschollener Gatte sei [Frisch, Stiller, 485]







    share|improve this answer




















    • 4





      The last one is the proper reference. Why don't you simply delete the first quote since it has nothing to do with the bible passage.

      – Peter A. Schneider
      Mar 19 at 12:38















    16














    You're observing a rather uncommon meaning of "so" in German. This word can occasionally mean if. At dwds.de you find an overview about the many meanings of so.





    1. leitet einen konditionalen Gliedsatz ein



      veraltet, gehoben wenn, sofern



      Beispiele:



      • so Gott will, sehen wir uns nächstes Jahr wieder

      • warum sie, so sie mich wirklich liebt, kein Geständnis von mir braucht, daß ich ihr verschollener Gatte sei [Frisch, Stiller, 485]







    share|improve this answer




















    • 4





      The last one is the proper reference. Why don't you simply delete the first quote since it has nothing to do with the bible passage.

      – Peter A. Schneider
      Mar 19 at 12:38













    16












    16








    16







    You're observing a rather uncommon meaning of "so" in German. This word can occasionally mean if. At dwds.de you find an overview about the many meanings of so.





    1. leitet einen konditionalen Gliedsatz ein



      veraltet, gehoben wenn, sofern



      Beispiele:



      • so Gott will, sehen wir uns nächstes Jahr wieder

      • warum sie, so sie mich wirklich liebt, kein Geständnis von mir braucht, daß ich ihr verschollener Gatte sei [Frisch, Stiller, 485]







    share|improve this answer















    You're observing a rather uncommon meaning of "so" in German. This word can occasionally mean if. At dwds.de you find an overview about the many meanings of so.





    1. leitet einen konditionalen Gliedsatz ein



      veraltet, gehoben wenn, sofern



      Beispiele:



      • so Gott will, sehen wir uns nächstes Jahr wieder

      • warum sie, so sie mich wirklich liebt, kein Geständnis von mir braucht, daß ich ihr verschollener Gatte sei [Frisch, Stiller, 485]








    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Mar 19 at 22:14









    npst

    1,683722




    1,683722










    answered Mar 19 at 11:44









    Frank from FrankfurtFrank from Frankfurt

    1,384116




    1,384116







    • 4





      The last one is the proper reference. Why don't you simply delete the first quote since it has nothing to do with the bible passage.

      – Peter A. Schneider
      Mar 19 at 12:38












    • 4





      The last one is the proper reference. Why don't you simply delete the first quote since it has nothing to do with the bible passage.

      – Peter A. Schneider
      Mar 19 at 12:38







    4




    4





    The last one is the proper reference. Why don't you simply delete the first quote since it has nothing to do with the bible passage.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    Mar 19 at 12:38





    The last one is the proper reference. Why don't you simply delete the first quote since it has nothing to do with the bible passage.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    Mar 19 at 12:38











    3














    As often, you can find the answer in an online dictionary: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/so_obwohl_falls




    2) (gehoben) falls




    (elevated) if






    share|improve this answer























    • But how would the asker determine the correct choice?

      – Stephie
      Mar 19 at 13:34






    • 2





      The same as Germans do. From context.

      – infinitezero
      Mar 19 at 20:00















    3














    As often, you can find the answer in an online dictionary: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/so_obwohl_falls




    2) (gehoben) falls




    (elevated) if






    share|improve this answer























    • But how would the asker determine the correct choice?

      – Stephie
      Mar 19 at 13:34






    • 2





      The same as Germans do. From context.

      – infinitezero
      Mar 19 at 20:00













    3












    3








    3







    As often, you can find the answer in an online dictionary: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/so_obwohl_falls




    2) (gehoben) falls




    (elevated) if






    share|improve this answer













    As often, you can find the answer in an online dictionary: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/so_obwohl_falls




    2) (gehoben) falls




    (elevated) if







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered Mar 19 at 11:17









    infinitezeroinfinitezero

    76128




    76128












    • But how would the asker determine the correct choice?

      – Stephie
      Mar 19 at 13:34






    • 2





      The same as Germans do. From context.

      – infinitezero
      Mar 19 at 20:00

















    • But how would the asker determine the correct choice?

      – Stephie
      Mar 19 at 13:34






    • 2





      The same as Germans do. From context.

      – infinitezero
      Mar 19 at 20:00
















    But how would the asker determine the correct choice?

    – Stephie
    Mar 19 at 13:34





    But how would the asker determine the correct choice?

    – Stephie
    Mar 19 at 13:34




    2




    2





    The same as Germans do. From context.

    – infinitezero
    Mar 19 at 20:00





    The same as Germans do. From context.

    – infinitezero
    Mar 19 at 20:00











    1














    The ESV passage




    6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




    Is indeed rendered quite differently if you compare it to the recent version of the so-called "Luther-text" (2017)




    6 Wenn wir sagen, dass wir Gemeinschaft mit ihm haben, und wandeln doch in der Finsternis, so lügen wir und tun nicht die Wahrheit.

    7 Wenn wir aber im Licht wandeln, wie er im Licht ist, so haben wir Gemeinschaft untereinander, und das Blut Jesu, seines Sohnes, macht uns rein von aller Sünde.

    8 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben keine Sünde, so betrügen wir uns selbst, und die Wahrheit ist nicht in uns.

    9 Wenn wir aber unsre Sünden bekennen, so ist er treu und gerecht, dass er uns die Sünden vergibt und reinigt uns von aller Ungerechtigkeit.

    10 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben nicht gesündigt, so machen wir ihn zum Lügner, und sein Wort ist nicht in uns.




    Luther himself wrote it different than the 1912 version in 1545:




    6 So wir sa [383a] gen / das wir Gemeinschafft mit jm haben /vnd wandeln im finsternis / So liegen wir / vnd thun nicht die warheit.

    7 So wir aber im Liecht wandeln /wie er im liecht ist / So haben wir gemeinschafft vnternander / Vnd das blut Jhesu Christi seines Sons /machet vns rein von aller sünde.

    8 So wir sagen / Wir haben keine sünde / So verfüren wir vns selbs / vnd die warheit ist nicht in vns.

    9 So wir aber vnsere sünde bekennen / so ist er trew vnd gerecht / das er vns die sünde vergibt / vnd reiniget vns von aller vntugent.

    10 So wir sagen / wir haben nicht gesündiget / So machen wir jn zum Lügener / vnd sein wort ist nicht in vns.




    That explains two things: even German readers are now rather unfamiliar with this construction,

    and an old dictionary even gives 1 Joh as an example for




    wie conditionales wenn: […] 1 Joh. 4, 20; dafur jr sagen soltet, so der herr wil, und wir leben, wollen wir dis oder das thun







    share|improve this answer



























      1














      The ESV passage




      6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

      7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

      8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

      9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

      10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




      Is indeed rendered quite differently if you compare it to the recent version of the so-called "Luther-text" (2017)




      6 Wenn wir sagen, dass wir Gemeinschaft mit ihm haben, und wandeln doch in der Finsternis, so lügen wir und tun nicht die Wahrheit.

      7 Wenn wir aber im Licht wandeln, wie er im Licht ist, so haben wir Gemeinschaft untereinander, und das Blut Jesu, seines Sohnes, macht uns rein von aller Sünde.

      8 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben keine Sünde, so betrügen wir uns selbst, und die Wahrheit ist nicht in uns.

      9 Wenn wir aber unsre Sünden bekennen, so ist er treu und gerecht, dass er uns die Sünden vergibt und reinigt uns von aller Ungerechtigkeit.

      10 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben nicht gesündigt, so machen wir ihn zum Lügner, und sein Wort ist nicht in uns.




      Luther himself wrote it different than the 1912 version in 1545:




      6 So wir sa [383a] gen / das wir Gemeinschafft mit jm haben /vnd wandeln im finsternis / So liegen wir / vnd thun nicht die warheit.

      7 So wir aber im Liecht wandeln /wie er im liecht ist / So haben wir gemeinschafft vnternander / Vnd das blut Jhesu Christi seines Sons /machet vns rein von aller sünde.

      8 So wir sagen / Wir haben keine sünde / So verfüren wir vns selbs / vnd die warheit ist nicht in vns.

      9 So wir aber vnsere sünde bekennen / so ist er trew vnd gerecht / das er vns die sünde vergibt / vnd reiniget vns von aller vntugent.

      10 So wir sagen / wir haben nicht gesündiget / So machen wir jn zum Lügener / vnd sein wort ist nicht in vns.




      That explains two things: even German readers are now rather unfamiliar with this construction,

      and an old dictionary even gives 1 Joh as an example for




      wie conditionales wenn: […] 1 Joh. 4, 20; dafur jr sagen soltet, so der herr wil, und wir leben, wollen wir dis oder das thun







      share|improve this answer

























        1












        1








        1







        The ESV passage




        6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

        7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

        8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

        9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

        10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




        Is indeed rendered quite differently if you compare it to the recent version of the so-called "Luther-text" (2017)




        6 Wenn wir sagen, dass wir Gemeinschaft mit ihm haben, und wandeln doch in der Finsternis, so lügen wir und tun nicht die Wahrheit.

        7 Wenn wir aber im Licht wandeln, wie er im Licht ist, so haben wir Gemeinschaft untereinander, und das Blut Jesu, seines Sohnes, macht uns rein von aller Sünde.

        8 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben keine Sünde, so betrügen wir uns selbst, und die Wahrheit ist nicht in uns.

        9 Wenn wir aber unsre Sünden bekennen, so ist er treu und gerecht, dass er uns die Sünden vergibt und reinigt uns von aller Ungerechtigkeit.

        10 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben nicht gesündigt, so machen wir ihn zum Lügner, und sein Wort ist nicht in uns.




        Luther himself wrote it different than the 1912 version in 1545:




        6 So wir sa [383a] gen / das wir Gemeinschafft mit jm haben /vnd wandeln im finsternis / So liegen wir / vnd thun nicht die warheit.

        7 So wir aber im Liecht wandeln /wie er im liecht ist / So haben wir gemeinschafft vnternander / Vnd das blut Jhesu Christi seines Sons /machet vns rein von aller sünde.

        8 So wir sagen / Wir haben keine sünde / So verfüren wir vns selbs / vnd die warheit ist nicht in vns.

        9 So wir aber vnsere sünde bekennen / so ist er trew vnd gerecht / das er vns die sünde vergibt / vnd reiniget vns von aller vntugent.

        10 So wir sagen / wir haben nicht gesündiget / So machen wir jn zum Lügener / vnd sein wort ist nicht in vns.




        That explains two things: even German readers are now rather unfamiliar with this construction,

        and an old dictionary even gives 1 Joh as an example for




        wie conditionales wenn: […] 1 Joh. 4, 20; dafur jr sagen soltet, so der herr wil, und wir leben, wollen wir dis oder das thun







        share|improve this answer













        The ESV passage




        6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

        7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

        8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

        9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

        10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




        Is indeed rendered quite differently if you compare it to the recent version of the so-called "Luther-text" (2017)




        6 Wenn wir sagen, dass wir Gemeinschaft mit ihm haben, und wandeln doch in der Finsternis, so lügen wir und tun nicht die Wahrheit.

        7 Wenn wir aber im Licht wandeln, wie er im Licht ist, so haben wir Gemeinschaft untereinander, und das Blut Jesu, seines Sohnes, macht uns rein von aller Sünde.

        8 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben keine Sünde, so betrügen wir uns selbst, und die Wahrheit ist nicht in uns.

        9 Wenn wir aber unsre Sünden bekennen, so ist er treu und gerecht, dass er uns die Sünden vergibt und reinigt uns von aller Ungerechtigkeit.

        10 Wenn wir sagen, wir haben nicht gesündigt, so machen wir ihn zum Lügner, und sein Wort ist nicht in uns.




        Luther himself wrote it different than the 1912 version in 1545:




        6 So wir sa [383a] gen / das wir Gemeinschafft mit jm haben /vnd wandeln im finsternis / So liegen wir / vnd thun nicht die warheit.

        7 So wir aber im Liecht wandeln /wie er im liecht ist / So haben wir gemeinschafft vnternander / Vnd das blut Jhesu Christi seines Sons /machet vns rein von aller sünde.

        8 So wir sagen / Wir haben keine sünde / So verfüren wir vns selbs / vnd die warheit ist nicht in vns.

        9 So wir aber vnsere sünde bekennen / so ist er trew vnd gerecht / das er vns die sünde vergibt / vnd reiniget vns von aller vntugent.

        10 So wir sagen / wir haben nicht gesündiget / So machen wir jn zum Lügener / vnd sein wort ist nicht in vns.




        That explains two things: even German readers are now rather unfamiliar with this construction,

        and an old dictionary even gives 1 Joh as an example for




        wie conditionales wenn: […] 1 Joh. 4, 20; dafur jr sagen soltet, so der herr wil, und wir leben, wollen wir dis oder das thun








        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Mar 19 at 23:29









        LangLangCLangLangC

        5,46311141




        5,46311141



























            draft saved

            draft discarded
















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to German Language Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgerman.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f50208%2fwhat-is-the-meaning-of-so-in-1-john-in-luther-s-bible-1912%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Lowndes Grove History Architecture References Navigation menu32°48′6″N 79°57′58″W / 32.80167°N 79.96611°W / 32.80167; -79.9661132°48′6″N 79°57′58″W / 32.80167°N 79.96611°W / 32.80167; -79.9661178002500"National Register Information System"Historic houses of South Carolina"Lowndes Grove""+32° 48' 6.00", −79° 57' 58.00""Lowndes Grove, Charleston County (260 St. Margaret St., Charleston)""Lowndes Grove"The Charleston ExpositionIt Happened in South Carolina"Lowndes Grove (House), Saint Margaret Street & Sixth Avenue, Charleston, Charleston County, SC(Photographs)"Plantations of the Carolina Low Countrye

            random experiment with two different functions on unit interval Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Random variable and probability space notionsRandom Walk with EdgesFinding functions where the increase over a random interval is Poisson distributedNumber of days until dayCan an observed event in fact be of zero probability?Unit random processmodels of coins and uniform distributionHow to get the number of successes given $n$ trials , probability $P$ and a random variable $X$Absorbing Markov chain in a computer. Is “almost every” turned into always convergence in computer executions?Stopped random walk is not uniformly integrable

            How should I support this large drywall patch? Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?How do I cover large gaps in drywall?How do I keep drywall around a patch from crumbling?Can I glue a second layer of drywall?How to patch long strip on drywall?Large drywall patch: how to avoid bulging seams?Drywall Mesh Patch vs. Bulge? To remove or not to remove?How to fix this drywall job?Prep drywall before backsplashWhat's the best way to fix this horrible drywall patch job?Drywall patching using 3M Patch Plus Primer