Getting different answers for same problem on divergence and curl. The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWhy is $det(vecA,vecB) = |vecA times vecB|$?If $f(x)f(y)=f(sqrtx^2+y^2)$ how to find $f(x)$homogeneous linear systemHow to calculate one of the vectors that generate a given cross-product?What is the method for finding the reciprocal lattice vectors in this 2D lattice?How do i conclude that my system of equations has a unique solution? And aplications of Lagrange identityMethod for solving system of linear equationsDivergence in Spherical & Cylindrical Polar co-ordinates derivationShow that $nabla times (vec c psi)= nabla psi times vec c=-vec c times nabla psi$, for constant vector $vec c$ and scalar field $psi$Validity of axes renaming
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Getting different answers for same problem on divergence and curl.
The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWhy is $det(vecA,vecB) = |vecA times vecB|$?If $f(x)f(y)=f(sqrtx^2+y^2)$ how to find $f(x)$homogeneous linear systemHow to calculate one of the vectors that generate a given cross-product?What is the method for finding the reciprocal lattice vectors in this 2D lattice?How do i conclude that my system of equations has a unique solution? And aplications of Lagrange identityMethod for solving system of linear equationsDivergence in Spherical & Cylindrical Polar co-ordinates derivationShow that $nabla times (vec c psi)= nabla psi times vec c=-vec c times nabla psi$, for constant vector $vec c$ and scalar field $psi$Validity of axes renaming
$begingroup$
Given that $veca$ is a constant vector and $vecr$ is a position vector.
We are asked to prove the following:
$$nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)=2veca$$
I tried two ways. Could prove it from one method but from another I am getting another result.
$$rule20cm0.4pt$$
1st method(with correct result):
$$LHS=nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)$$
Let $veca=a_1hati+a_2hatj+a_3hatk ,,$ and $,,vecr=xhati+yhatj+zhatk,$ where $a_1,a_2,a_3$ are constants and $x,y,z$ is any arbitrary point.
$$Simplifying,,,, (vecatimesvecr)$$
$$=beginvmatrixhati & hatj & hatk \ a_1 & a_2 & a_3 \ x & y & zendvmatrix$$
$$=hati(a_2z-a_3y)+hatj(a_3x-a_1z)+hatk(a_1y-a_2x)$$
Now performing the curl operation on the simplified result we obtained.
$$=nablatimes(simplified,result)$$
$$=beginvmatrixhati & hatj & hatk \ fracpartialpartial x &fracpartialpartial y & fracpartialpartial z \ a_2z-a_3y & a_3x-a_1z & a_1y-a_2xendvmatrix$$
$$=2a_1xhati+2a_2yhatj+2a_3zhatk$$
$$=2veca$$
$$=RHS$$
$$rule20cm0.4pt$$
2nd method with incorrect result.
We know that $$nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)=2[(nabla.vecr)veca-(nabla.veca)vecr]$$
Solving RHS,
$$Also,nabla.vecr=3,and, nabla.veca=0$$
$$=2[3veca-0vecr]$$
$$=6veca$$
which is incorrect. Where did I make mistake in this method?
calculus linear-algebra vectors divergence curl
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given that $veca$ is a constant vector and $vecr$ is a position vector.
We are asked to prove the following:
$$nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)=2veca$$
I tried two ways. Could prove it from one method but from another I am getting another result.
$$rule20cm0.4pt$$
1st method(with correct result):
$$LHS=nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)$$
Let $veca=a_1hati+a_2hatj+a_3hatk ,,$ and $,,vecr=xhati+yhatj+zhatk,$ where $a_1,a_2,a_3$ are constants and $x,y,z$ is any arbitrary point.
$$Simplifying,,,, (vecatimesvecr)$$
$$=beginvmatrixhati & hatj & hatk \ a_1 & a_2 & a_3 \ x & y & zendvmatrix$$
$$=hati(a_2z-a_3y)+hatj(a_3x-a_1z)+hatk(a_1y-a_2x)$$
Now performing the curl operation on the simplified result we obtained.
$$=nablatimes(simplified,result)$$
$$=beginvmatrixhati & hatj & hatk \ fracpartialpartial x &fracpartialpartial y & fracpartialpartial z \ a_2z-a_3y & a_3x-a_1z & a_1y-a_2xendvmatrix$$
$$=2a_1xhati+2a_2yhatj+2a_3zhatk$$
$$=2veca$$
$$=RHS$$
$$rule20cm0.4pt$$
2nd method with incorrect result.
We know that $$nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)=2[(nabla.vecr)veca-(nabla.veca)vecr]$$
Solving RHS,
$$Also,nabla.vecr=3,and, nabla.veca=0$$
$$=2[3veca-0vecr]$$
$$=6veca$$
which is incorrect. Where did I make mistake in this method?
calculus linear-algebra vectors divergence curl
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Check the curl identity: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl_(mathematics)#Identities
$endgroup$
– K_inverse
Mar 19 at 11:08
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given that $veca$ is a constant vector and $vecr$ is a position vector.
We are asked to prove the following:
$$nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)=2veca$$
I tried two ways. Could prove it from one method but from another I am getting another result.
$$rule20cm0.4pt$$
1st method(with correct result):
$$LHS=nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)$$
Let $veca=a_1hati+a_2hatj+a_3hatk ,,$ and $,,vecr=xhati+yhatj+zhatk,$ where $a_1,a_2,a_3$ are constants and $x,y,z$ is any arbitrary point.
$$Simplifying,,,, (vecatimesvecr)$$
$$=beginvmatrixhati & hatj & hatk \ a_1 & a_2 & a_3 \ x & y & zendvmatrix$$
$$=hati(a_2z-a_3y)+hatj(a_3x-a_1z)+hatk(a_1y-a_2x)$$
Now performing the curl operation on the simplified result we obtained.
$$=nablatimes(simplified,result)$$
$$=beginvmatrixhati & hatj & hatk \ fracpartialpartial x &fracpartialpartial y & fracpartialpartial z \ a_2z-a_3y & a_3x-a_1z & a_1y-a_2xendvmatrix$$
$$=2a_1xhati+2a_2yhatj+2a_3zhatk$$
$$=2veca$$
$$=RHS$$
$$rule20cm0.4pt$$
2nd method with incorrect result.
We know that $$nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)=2[(nabla.vecr)veca-(nabla.veca)vecr]$$
Solving RHS,
$$Also,nabla.vecr=3,and, nabla.veca=0$$
$$=2[3veca-0vecr]$$
$$=6veca$$
which is incorrect. Where did I make mistake in this method?
calculus linear-algebra vectors divergence curl
$endgroup$
Given that $veca$ is a constant vector and $vecr$ is a position vector.
We are asked to prove the following:
$$nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)=2veca$$
I tried two ways. Could prove it from one method but from another I am getting another result.
$$rule20cm0.4pt$$
1st method(with correct result):
$$LHS=nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)$$
Let $veca=a_1hati+a_2hatj+a_3hatk ,,$ and $,,vecr=xhati+yhatj+zhatk,$ where $a_1,a_2,a_3$ are constants and $x,y,z$ is any arbitrary point.
$$Simplifying,,,, (vecatimesvecr)$$
$$=beginvmatrixhati & hatj & hatk \ a_1 & a_2 & a_3 \ x & y & zendvmatrix$$
$$=hati(a_2z-a_3y)+hatj(a_3x-a_1z)+hatk(a_1y-a_2x)$$
Now performing the curl operation on the simplified result we obtained.
$$=nablatimes(simplified,result)$$
$$=beginvmatrixhati & hatj & hatk \ fracpartialpartial x &fracpartialpartial y & fracpartialpartial z \ a_2z-a_3y & a_3x-a_1z & a_1y-a_2xendvmatrix$$
$$=2a_1xhati+2a_2yhatj+2a_3zhatk$$
$$=2veca$$
$$=RHS$$
$$rule20cm0.4pt$$
2nd method with incorrect result.
We know that $$nablatimes(vecatimesvecr)=2[(nabla.vecr)veca-(nabla.veca)vecr]$$
Solving RHS,
$$Also,nabla.vecr=3,and, nabla.veca=0$$
$$=2[3veca-0vecr]$$
$$=6veca$$
which is incorrect. Where did I make mistake in this method?
calculus linear-algebra vectors divergence curl
calculus linear-algebra vectors divergence curl
asked Mar 19 at 11:02
Abbas MiyaAbbas Miya
16211
16211
$begingroup$
Check the curl identity: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl_(mathematics)#Identities
$endgroup$
– K_inverse
Mar 19 at 11:08
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Check the curl identity: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl_(mathematics)#Identities
$endgroup$
– K_inverse
Mar 19 at 11:08
$begingroup$
Check the curl identity: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl_(mathematics)#Identities
$endgroup$
– K_inverse
Mar 19 at 11:08
$begingroup$
Check the curl identity: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl_(mathematics)#Identities
$endgroup$
– K_inverse
Mar 19 at 11:08
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The "vector calculus identity" you use in your second calculation is just false. You actually have
beginalign*
nabla times (veca times vecr) &= veca(nabla cdot vecr) - vecr(nabla cdot veca) + (vecr cdot nabla)veca - (veca cdot nabla) vecr \
&=
veca(nabla cdot vecr) - (veca cdot nabla) vecr.
endalign*
As you say, the first term on the RHS is then $3 veca$, but we need to calculate the other term. It is just the directional derivative of $vecr$ in the direction of $veca$ multiplied by the magnitude of $veca$, so this is just $veca$. Thus
$$
nabla times (veca times vecr) = 3 veca - veca = 2 veca,
$$
as desired.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
photos.app.goo.gl/71CHGVa9Hkt2U7Hk8 is the proof for identity I have used.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:17
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya I can't see the image---you can just add it to your question.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
But at any rate, the mistake must be there.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
I am sorry for the link, it is fine now, you can see the picture.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:32
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya That "simplification" of the identity in red is not correct. The confusion seems to be that $veca cdot nabla$ does not equal $nabla cdot veca$, for example. Instead $veca cdot nabla$ is an operator which differentates in the $veca$ direction and then multiplies by the magnitude of $veca$. On the other hand, $nabla cdot veca$ is just a number (and in your case it is zero).
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:36
|
show 1 more comment
Your Answer
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1 Answer
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oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The "vector calculus identity" you use in your second calculation is just false. You actually have
beginalign*
nabla times (veca times vecr) &= veca(nabla cdot vecr) - vecr(nabla cdot veca) + (vecr cdot nabla)veca - (veca cdot nabla) vecr \
&=
veca(nabla cdot vecr) - (veca cdot nabla) vecr.
endalign*
As you say, the first term on the RHS is then $3 veca$, but we need to calculate the other term. It is just the directional derivative of $vecr$ in the direction of $veca$ multiplied by the magnitude of $veca$, so this is just $veca$. Thus
$$
nabla times (veca times vecr) = 3 veca - veca = 2 veca,
$$
as desired.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
photos.app.goo.gl/71CHGVa9Hkt2U7Hk8 is the proof for identity I have used.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:17
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya I can't see the image---you can just add it to your question.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
But at any rate, the mistake must be there.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
I am sorry for the link, it is fine now, you can see the picture.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:32
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya That "simplification" of the identity in red is not correct. The confusion seems to be that $veca cdot nabla$ does not equal $nabla cdot veca$, for example. Instead $veca cdot nabla$ is an operator which differentates in the $veca$ direction and then multiplies by the magnitude of $veca$. On the other hand, $nabla cdot veca$ is just a number (and in your case it is zero).
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:36
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The "vector calculus identity" you use in your second calculation is just false. You actually have
beginalign*
nabla times (veca times vecr) &= veca(nabla cdot vecr) - vecr(nabla cdot veca) + (vecr cdot nabla)veca - (veca cdot nabla) vecr \
&=
veca(nabla cdot vecr) - (veca cdot nabla) vecr.
endalign*
As you say, the first term on the RHS is then $3 veca$, but we need to calculate the other term. It is just the directional derivative of $vecr$ in the direction of $veca$ multiplied by the magnitude of $veca$, so this is just $veca$. Thus
$$
nabla times (veca times vecr) = 3 veca - veca = 2 veca,
$$
as desired.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
photos.app.goo.gl/71CHGVa9Hkt2U7Hk8 is the proof for identity I have used.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:17
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya I can't see the image---you can just add it to your question.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
But at any rate, the mistake must be there.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
I am sorry for the link, it is fine now, you can see the picture.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:32
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya That "simplification" of the identity in red is not correct. The confusion seems to be that $veca cdot nabla$ does not equal $nabla cdot veca$, for example. Instead $veca cdot nabla$ is an operator which differentates in the $veca$ direction and then multiplies by the magnitude of $veca$. On the other hand, $nabla cdot veca$ is just a number (and in your case it is zero).
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:36
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The "vector calculus identity" you use in your second calculation is just false. You actually have
beginalign*
nabla times (veca times vecr) &= veca(nabla cdot vecr) - vecr(nabla cdot veca) + (vecr cdot nabla)veca - (veca cdot nabla) vecr \
&=
veca(nabla cdot vecr) - (veca cdot nabla) vecr.
endalign*
As you say, the first term on the RHS is then $3 veca$, but we need to calculate the other term. It is just the directional derivative of $vecr$ in the direction of $veca$ multiplied by the magnitude of $veca$, so this is just $veca$. Thus
$$
nabla times (veca times vecr) = 3 veca - veca = 2 veca,
$$
as desired.
$endgroup$
The "vector calculus identity" you use in your second calculation is just false. You actually have
beginalign*
nabla times (veca times vecr) &= veca(nabla cdot vecr) - vecr(nabla cdot veca) + (vecr cdot nabla)veca - (veca cdot nabla) vecr \
&=
veca(nabla cdot vecr) - (veca cdot nabla) vecr.
endalign*
As you say, the first term on the RHS is then $3 veca$, but we need to calculate the other term. It is just the directional derivative of $vecr$ in the direction of $veca$ multiplied by the magnitude of $veca$, so this is just $veca$. Thus
$$
nabla times (veca times vecr) = 3 veca - veca = 2 veca,
$$
as desired.
answered Mar 19 at 11:14
Keeley HoekKeeley Hoek
829
829
$begingroup$
photos.app.goo.gl/71CHGVa9Hkt2U7Hk8 is the proof for identity I have used.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:17
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya I can't see the image---you can just add it to your question.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
But at any rate, the mistake must be there.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
I am sorry for the link, it is fine now, you can see the picture.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:32
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya That "simplification" of the identity in red is not correct. The confusion seems to be that $veca cdot nabla$ does not equal $nabla cdot veca$, for example. Instead $veca cdot nabla$ is an operator which differentates in the $veca$ direction and then multiplies by the magnitude of $veca$. On the other hand, $nabla cdot veca$ is just a number (and in your case it is zero).
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:36
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
photos.app.goo.gl/71CHGVa9Hkt2U7Hk8 is the proof for identity I have used.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:17
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya I can't see the image---you can just add it to your question.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
But at any rate, the mistake must be there.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
I am sorry for the link, it is fine now, you can see the picture.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:32
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya That "simplification" of the identity in red is not correct. The confusion seems to be that $veca cdot nabla$ does not equal $nabla cdot veca$, for example. Instead $veca cdot nabla$ is an operator which differentates in the $veca$ direction and then multiplies by the magnitude of $veca$. On the other hand, $nabla cdot veca$ is just a number (and in your case it is zero).
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:36
$begingroup$
photos.app.goo.gl/71CHGVa9Hkt2U7Hk8 is the proof for identity I have used.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:17
$begingroup$
photos.app.goo.gl/71CHGVa9Hkt2U7Hk8 is the proof for identity I have used.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:17
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya I can't see the image---you can just add it to your question.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya I can't see the image---you can just add it to your question.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
But at any rate, the mistake must be there.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
But at any rate, the mistake must be there.
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:30
$begingroup$
I am sorry for the link, it is fine now, you can see the picture.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:32
$begingroup$
I am sorry for the link, it is fine now, you can see the picture.
$endgroup$
– Abbas Miya
Mar 19 at 11:32
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya That "simplification" of the identity in red is not correct. The confusion seems to be that $veca cdot nabla$ does not equal $nabla cdot veca$, for example. Instead $veca cdot nabla$ is an operator which differentates in the $veca$ direction and then multiplies by the magnitude of $veca$. On the other hand, $nabla cdot veca$ is just a number (and in your case it is zero).
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:36
$begingroup$
@AbbasMiya That "simplification" of the identity in red is not correct. The confusion seems to be that $veca cdot nabla$ does not equal $nabla cdot veca$, for example. Instead $veca cdot nabla$ is an operator which differentates in the $veca$ direction and then multiplies by the magnitude of $veca$. On the other hand, $nabla cdot veca$ is just a number (and in your case it is zero).
$endgroup$
– Keeley Hoek
Mar 19 at 11:36
|
show 1 more comment
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Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
Check the curl identity: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl_(mathematics)#Identities
$endgroup$
– K_inverse
Mar 19 at 11:08