Weak-$*$ topology on algebraic dual$C(K)^*$ in the weak*-topologyOn the Banach–Alaoglu theorem: is the unit ball of an equivalent norm also weak-* compact?Is this statement true? (characterize elements of dual group)Understanding Wikipedia's definition for latticeIs the Haar measure on Abelian groups regular?Why is the space of finite Borel-measure dual to the space of finite continuous function.Fourier Transform of Measures on Hilbert, Banach, or general Topological Vector SpaceHaar Measures on SolenoidsBound on the measure of a sum of sets$sigma$ finiteness of locally compact groups with haar measure

Limpar string com Regex

Why isn't P and P/poly trivially the same?

What can I do if someone tampers with my SSH public key?

Why would /etc/passwd be used every time someone executes `ls -l` command?

Precision notation for voltmeters

How to install "rounded" brake pads

Create chunks from an array

Was this cameo in Captain Marvel computer generated?

Why does a car's steering wheel get lighter with increasing speed

Boss Telling direct supervisor I snitched

Do I need a return ticket to Canada if I'm a Japanese National?

Use Mercury as quenching liquid for swords?

Is it appropriate to ask a former professor to order a library book for me through ILL?

Insult for someone who "doesn't know anything"

Generating a list with duplicate entries

After Brexit, will the EU recognize British passports that are valid for more than ten years?

Has a sovereign Communist government ever run, and conceded loss, on a fair election?

Too soon for a plot twist?

Is there a math expression equivalent to the conditional ternary operator?

Issue with units for a rocket nozzle throat area problem

How to educate team mate to take screenshots for bugs with out unwanted stuff

How does a sound wave propagate?

3.5% Interest Student Loan or use all of my savings on Tuition?

Tabular environment - text vertically positions itself by bottom of tikz picture in adjacent cell



Weak-$*$ topology on algebraic dual


$C(K)^*$ in the weak*-topologyOn the Banach–Alaoglu theorem: is the unit ball of an equivalent norm also weak-* compact?Is this statement true? (characterize elements of dual group)Understanding Wikipedia's definition for latticeIs the Haar measure on Abelian groups regular?Why is the space of finite Borel-measure dual to the space of finite continuous function.Fourier Transform of Measures on Hilbert, Banach, or general Topological Vector SpaceHaar Measures on SolenoidsBound on the measure of a sum of sets$sigma$ finiteness of locally compact groups with haar measure













4












$begingroup$


I was looking at




Izzo, Alexander J., A functional analysis proof of the existence of Haar measure on locally compact Abelian groups, Proc. Am. Math. Soc. 115, No. 2, 581-583 (1992). ZBL0777.28006.




which proves existence of the Haar-measure for locally compact abelian groups using the Markov-Kakutani theorem.



What I find strange is that the Haar measure is constructed as an element of the dual of $C_c(X)$. But for noncompact $X$ (such as $X$ being the real numbers $Bbb R$) this must be an unbounded functional (as the Lebesgue-measure on $Bbb R$ is not finite). It seems like the author has no problem with this, and (without mentioning it further) goes on to define a weak-* topology for this case and even uses Banach-Alaoglu.



I have not seen this being done this way before, am I misunderstanding something or can one define a weak-* topology on the algebraic dual of a TVS without any problems?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    4












    $begingroup$


    I was looking at




    Izzo, Alexander J., A functional analysis proof of the existence of Haar measure on locally compact Abelian groups, Proc. Am. Math. Soc. 115, No. 2, 581-583 (1992). ZBL0777.28006.




    which proves existence of the Haar-measure for locally compact abelian groups using the Markov-Kakutani theorem.



    What I find strange is that the Haar measure is constructed as an element of the dual of $C_c(X)$. But for noncompact $X$ (such as $X$ being the real numbers $Bbb R$) this must be an unbounded functional (as the Lebesgue-measure on $Bbb R$ is not finite). It seems like the author has no problem with this, and (without mentioning it further) goes on to define a weak-* topology for this case and even uses Banach-Alaoglu.



    I have not seen this being done this way before, am I misunderstanding something or can one define a weak-* topology on the algebraic dual of a TVS without any problems?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      4












      4








      4





      $begingroup$


      I was looking at




      Izzo, Alexander J., A functional analysis proof of the existence of Haar measure on locally compact Abelian groups, Proc. Am. Math. Soc. 115, No. 2, 581-583 (1992). ZBL0777.28006.




      which proves existence of the Haar-measure for locally compact abelian groups using the Markov-Kakutani theorem.



      What I find strange is that the Haar measure is constructed as an element of the dual of $C_c(X)$. But for noncompact $X$ (such as $X$ being the real numbers $Bbb R$) this must be an unbounded functional (as the Lebesgue-measure on $Bbb R$ is not finite). It seems like the author has no problem with this, and (without mentioning it further) goes on to define a weak-* topology for this case and even uses Banach-Alaoglu.



      I have not seen this being done this way before, am I misunderstanding something or can one define a weak-* topology on the algebraic dual of a TVS without any problems?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I was looking at




      Izzo, Alexander J., A functional analysis proof of the existence of Haar measure on locally compact Abelian groups, Proc. Am. Math. Soc. 115, No. 2, 581-583 (1992). ZBL0777.28006.




      which proves existence of the Haar-measure for locally compact abelian groups using the Markov-Kakutani theorem.



      What I find strange is that the Haar measure is constructed as an element of the dual of $C_c(X)$. But for noncompact $X$ (such as $X$ being the real numbers $Bbb R$) this must be an unbounded functional (as the Lebesgue-measure on $Bbb R$ is not finite). It seems like the author has no problem with this, and (without mentioning it further) goes on to define a weak-* topology for this case and even uses Banach-Alaoglu.



      I have not seen this being done this way before, am I misunderstanding something or can one define a weak-* topology on the algebraic dual of a TVS without any problems?







      functional-analysis harmonic-analysis haar-measure






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Feb 14 at 13:56









      Asaf Karagila

      306k33437768




      306k33437768










      asked Feb 14 at 13:47









      Nathanael SchillingNathanael Schilling

      1249




      1249




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1












          $begingroup$

          I agree with Paul Garrett that it seems more reasonable to endow $C_c(G)$ with the strict inductive limit topology and consider the topological dual, which is isomorphic to the space of all Radon measures on $G$ (in particular, infinite measures also give rise to continuous functionals).



          However, the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^ast$. What the author calls the weak$^ast$ topology on $X^ast$ is the $sigma(X^ast,X)$ topology, i.e, the locally convex topology generated by the seminorms $p_xcolonphimapsto|phi(x)|$ for $xin X$. If you view $X^ast$ as a subspace of $mathbbR^X$, then this is just the (induced topology of) the product topology. This already gives you a hint how to prove this generalized Banach-Alaoglu theorem.



          For $xin X$ let $K_x$ be the closure of $Lambda(x)midLambdain K$. By assumption, $K_x$ is compact. Then $K$ is a subset of $prod_xin XK_x$, which is compact by Tychonoff's theorem. Since $K$ is also assumed to be closed in $X^ast$, it suffices to show that $X^ast$ is a closed subset of $mathbbR^X$, which is pretty straightforward.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




















            1












            $begingroup$

            The intent of the quoted lemma in Izzo's paper is to show the compactness of a certain subset of linear functionals in the weak* topology, and I agree with @MaoWao that the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^*$. The definition of the weak* topology on a space $X^*$ of functionals or generally functions on a domain space $X$ does not depend on any topology on $X$, but rather only on the topology of the value field (e.g. $R$ or $C$), and if a theorem like Banach-Alaoglu is desired, then on the local compactness of the value field.



            It is not the 1st time I see the weak* topology on the space of $all$ linear functionals, i.e. on the algebraic dual: on page 108 of John L. Kelley's famous Topology book there is exercise W on "Functionals on real linear spaces" which starts like follows:



            "Let $(X, +,.)$ be a real linear space. A real-valued linear function on $X$ is called a $linear functional$. The set $Z$ of all linear functionals on $X$ is, with the natural definition of addition and scalar multiplication, a real linear space. It is clear that $Z$ is a subset of the product $R^X$, where $R$ is the set of real numbers. The relativized product topology for $Z$ is called the $weak^*$ or $w^*$ topology (the $simple$ topology)."



            Kelley then moved on to formulate a $Density$ $lemma$ and an $Evaluation$ $Theorem$ as exercises with respect to the weak* topology on the Algebraic dual $Z$ of $X$.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$




















              0












              $begingroup$

              Probably the topology on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ (or for other non-compact topological group in place of $mathbb R$) is not what you anticipated. It is not sup norm, for example. It is an ascending union, categorically a "strict colimit" (=strict inductive limit=...) of spaces of the form $C^o(K)$ as $K$ ranges over compact subsets of $mathbb R$. (These are Banach spaces.)



              In particular, from the characterizing mapping property of "colimit", a linear map or functional from $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ is continuous if and only if its restriction to each $C^o(K)$ is continuous.



              So the dual of $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ does not include "unbounded" functionals in a true sense, because even on such spaces "continuous" is still equivalent to "bounded"... but "bounded" has a more complicated sense.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                Sure, if I don't take C_c( R ) with the norm topology but with some different topology then I can get more continuous functionals. But this doesn't answer my question: in Izzo's proof (if I understand it correctly) he explicitly takes the space of all linear functionals on C_c and gives it a topology and claims that something like Banach-Alaouglo holds.
                $endgroup$
                – Nathanael Schilling
                Feb 14 at 22:37










              • $begingroup$
                @NathanaelSchilling, I would strongly doubt that the intent is to take all linear functionals on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$, since things would run amok. Ah... Just realized: when functional analysts say "dual" they almost-surely mean "continuous dual". Rarely, if ever, "purely-algebraic dual". I'd bet a dollar that that's the intent.
                $endgroup$
                – paul garrett
                Feb 14 at 22:44











              • $begingroup$
                Yes usually I would agree. I've never seen the algebraic dual being used in functional analysis. Except (implicitly) in the Riesz-Markov theorem, which takes an arbitrary positive functional on C_c and shows it can be represented by a measure. But since the author emphasises the word "all" here and the context is very similar, it got me wondering if this perhaps is possible... I don't see any obvious obstructions to defining a weak^* topology on this space, and even if the result is not a topological vector space it could be that some sort of compactness results hold even in this setting?
                $endgroup$
                – Nathanael Schilling
                Feb 15 at 14:19










              • $begingroup$
                Also, btw, the "positive functional" version of Riesz-Markov-Kakutani is just a veiled form of a continuity assumption (Banach-Steinhaus...), but/and has a certain popularity because it's easier to say "positive" than to describe the topology on compactly-supported continuous functions.
                $endgroup$
                – paul garrett
                Feb 16 at 18:26










              Your Answer





              StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
              return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
              StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
              StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
              );
              );
              , "mathjax-editing");

              StackExchange.ready(function()
              var channelOptions =
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "69"
              ;
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
              createEditor();
              );

              else
              createEditor();

              );

              function createEditor()
              StackExchange.prepareEditor(
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: true,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: 10,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader:
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              ,
              noCode: true, onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              );



              );













              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function ()
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3112682%2fweak-topology-on-algebraic-dual%23new-answer', 'question_page');

              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes








              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              1












              $begingroup$

              I agree with Paul Garrett that it seems more reasonable to endow $C_c(G)$ with the strict inductive limit topology and consider the topological dual, which is isomorphic to the space of all Radon measures on $G$ (in particular, infinite measures also give rise to continuous functionals).



              However, the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^ast$. What the author calls the weak$^ast$ topology on $X^ast$ is the $sigma(X^ast,X)$ topology, i.e, the locally convex topology generated by the seminorms $p_xcolonphimapsto|phi(x)|$ for $xin X$. If you view $X^ast$ as a subspace of $mathbbR^X$, then this is just the (induced topology of) the product topology. This already gives you a hint how to prove this generalized Banach-Alaoglu theorem.



              For $xin X$ let $K_x$ be the closure of $Lambda(x)midLambdain K$. By assumption, $K_x$ is compact. Then $K$ is a subset of $prod_xin XK_x$, which is compact by Tychonoff's theorem. Since $K$ is also assumed to be closed in $X^ast$, it suffices to show that $X^ast$ is a closed subset of $mathbbR^X$, which is pretty straightforward.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                1












                $begingroup$

                I agree with Paul Garrett that it seems more reasonable to endow $C_c(G)$ with the strict inductive limit topology and consider the topological dual, which is isomorphic to the space of all Radon measures on $G$ (in particular, infinite measures also give rise to continuous functionals).



                However, the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^ast$. What the author calls the weak$^ast$ topology on $X^ast$ is the $sigma(X^ast,X)$ topology, i.e, the locally convex topology generated by the seminorms $p_xcolonphimapsto|phi(x)|$ for $xin X$. If you view $X^ast$ as a subspace of $mathbbR^X$, then this is just the (induced topology of) the product topology. This already gives you a hint how to prove this generalized Banach-Alaoglu theorem.



                For $xin X$ let $K_x$ be the closure of $Lambda(x)midLambdain K$. By assumption, $K_x$ is compact. Then $K$ is a subset of $prod_xin XK_x$, which is compact by Tychonoff's theorem. Since $K$ is also assumed to be closed in $X^ast$, it suffices to show that $X^ast$ is a closed subset of $mathbbR^X$, which is pretty straightforward.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  I agree with Paul Garrett that it seems more reasonable to endow $C_c(G)$ with the strict inductive limit topology and consider the topological dual, which is isomorphic to the space of all Radon measures on $G$ (in particular, infinite measures also give rise to continuous functionals).



                  However, the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^ast$. What the author calls the weak$^ast$ topology on $X^ast$ is the $sigma(X^ast,X)$ topology, i.e, the locally convex topology generated by the seminorms $p_xcolonphimapsto|phi(x)|$ for $xin X$. If you view $X^ast$ as a subspace of $mathbbR^X$, then this is just the (induced topology of) the product topology. This already gives you a hint how to prove this generalized Banach-Alaoglu theorem.



                  For $xin X$ let $K_x$ be the closure of $Lambda(x)midLambdain K$. By assumption, $K_x$ is compact. Then $K$ is a subset of $prod_xin XK_x$, which is compact by Tychonoff's theorem. Since $K$ is also assumed to be closed in $X^ast$, it suffices to show that $X^ast$ is a closed subset of $mathbbR^X$, which is pretty straightforward.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  I agree with Paul Garrett that it seems more reasonable to endow $C_c(G)$ with the strict inductive limit topology and consider the topological dual, which is isomorphic to the space of all Radon measures on $G$ (in particular, infinite measures also give rise to continuous functionals).



                  However, the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^ast$. What the author calls the weak$^ast$ topology on $X^ast$ is the $sigma(X^ast,X)$ topology, i.e, the locally convex topology generated by the seminorms $p_xcolonphimapsto|phi(x)|$ for $xin X$. If you view $X^ast$ as a subspace of $mathbbR^X$, then this is just the (induced topology of) the product topology. This already gives you a hint how to prove this generalized Banach-Alaoglu theorem.



                  For $xin X$ let $K_x$ be the closure of $Lambda(x)midLambdain K$. By assumption, $K_x$ is compact. Then $K$ is a subset of $prod_xin XK_x$, which is compact by Tychonoff's theorem. Since $K$ is also assumed to be closed in $X^ast$, it suffices to show that $X^ast$ is a closed subset of $mathbbR^X$, which is pretty straightforward.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Feb 18 at 9:52









                  MaoWaoMaoWao

                  3,783617




                  3,783617





















                      1












                      $begingroup$

                      The intent of the quoted lemma in Izzo's paper is to show the compactness of a certain subset of linear functionals in the weak* topology, and I agree with @MaoWao that the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^*$. The definition of the weak* topology on a space $X^*$ of functionals or generally functions on a domain space $X$ does not depend on any topology on $X$, but rather only on the topology of the value field (e.g. $R$ or $C$), and if a theorem like Banach-Alaoglu is desired, then on the local compactness of the value field.



                      It is not the 1st time I see the weak* topology on the space of $all$ linear functionals, i.e. on the algebraic dual: on page 108 of John L. Kelley's famous Topology book there is exercise W on "Functionals on real linear spaces" which starts like follows:



                      "Let $(X, +,.)$ be a real linear space. A real-valued linear function on $X$ is called a $linear functional$. The set $Z$ of all linear functionals on $X$ is, with the natural definition of addition and scalar multiplication, a real linear space. It is clear that $Z$ is a subset of the product $R^X$, where $R$ is the set of real numbers. The relativized product topology for $Z$ is called the $weak^*$ or $w^*$ topology (the $simple$ topology)."



                      Kelley then moved on to formulate a $Density$ $lemma$ and an $Evaluation$ $Theorem$ as exercises with respect to the weak* topology on the Algebraic dual $Z$ of $X$.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$

















                        1












                        $begingroup$

                        The intent of the quoted lemma in Izzo's paper is to show the compactness of a certain subset of linear functionals in the weak* topology, and I agree with @MaoWao that the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^*$. The definition of the weak* topology on a space $X^*$ of functionals or generally functions on a domain space $X$ does not depend on any topology on $X$, but rather only on the topology of the value field (e.g. $R$ or $C$), and if a theorem like Banach-Alaoglu is desired, then on the local compactness of the value field.



                        It is not the 1st time I see the weak* topology on the space of $all$ linear functionals, i.e. on the algebraic dual: on page 108 of John L. Kelley's famous Topology book there is exercise W on "Functionals on real linear spaces" which starts like follows:



                        "Let $(X, +,.)$ be a real linear space. A real-valued linear function on $X$ is called a $linear functional$. The set $Z$ of all linear functionals on $X$ is, with the natural definition of addition and scalar multiplication, a real linear space. It is clear that $Z$ is a subset of the product $R^X$, where $R$ is the set of real numbers. The relativized product topology for $Z$ is called the $weak^*$ or $w^*$ topology (the $simple$ topology)."



                        Kelley then moved on to formulate a $Density$ $lemma$ and an $Evaluation$ $Theorem$ as exercises with respect to the weak* topology on the Algebraic dual $Z$ of $X$.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$















                          1












                          1








                          1





                          $begingroup$

                          The intent of the quoted lemma in Izzo's paper is to show the compactness of a certain subset of linear functionals in the weak* topology, and I agree with @MaoWao that the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^*$. The definition of the weak* topology on a space $X^*$ of functionals or generally functions on a domain space $X$ does not depend on any topology on $X$, but rather only on the topology of the value field (e.g. $R$ or $C$), and if a theorem like Banach-Alaoglu is desired, then on the local compactness of the value field.



                          It is not the 1st time I see the weak* topology on the space of $all$ linear functionals, i.e. on the algebraic dual: on page 108 of John L. Kelley's famous Topology book there is exercise W on "Functionals on real linear spaces" which starts like follows:



                          "Let $(X, +,.)$ be a real linear space. A real-valued linear function on $X$ is called a $linear functional$. The set $Z$ of all linear functionals on $X$ is, with the natural definition of addition and scalar multiplication, a real linear space. It is clear that $Z$ is a subset of the product $R^X$, where $R$ is the set of real numbers. The relativized product topology for $Z$ is called the $weak^*$ or $w^*$ topology (the $simple$ topology)."



                          Kelley then moved on to formulate a $Density$ $lemma$ and an $Evaluation$ $Theorem$ as exercises with respect to the weak* topology on the Algebraic dual $Z$ of $X$.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          The intent of the quoted lemma in Izzo's paper is to show the compactness of a certain subset of linear functionals in the weak* topology, and I agree with @MaoWao that the linked lemma also holds for the algebraic dual $X^*$. The definition of the weak* topology on a space $X^*$ of functionals or generally functions on a domain space $X$ does not depend on any topology on $X$, but rather only on the topology of the value field (e.g. $R$ or $C$), and if a theorem like Banach-Alaoglu is desired, then on the local compactness of the value field.



                          It is not the 1st time I see the weak* topology on the space of $all$ linear functionals, i.e. on the algebraic dual: on page 108 of John L. Kelley's famous Topology book there is exercise W on "Functionals on real linear spaces" which starts like follows:



                          "Let $(X, +,.)$ be a real linear space. A real-valued linear function on $X$ is called a $linear functional$. The set $Z$ of all linear functionals on $X$ is, with the natural definition of addition and scalar multiplication, a real linear space. It is clear that $Z$ is a subset of the product $R^X$, where $R$ is the set of real numbers. The relativized product topology for $Z$ is called the $weak^*$ or $w^*$ topology (the $simple$ topology)."



                          Kelley then moved on to formulate a $Density$ $lemma$ and an $Evaluation$ $Theorem$ as exercises with respect to the weak* topology on the Algebraic dual $Z$ of $X$.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered 17 hours ago









                          Matthias HübnerMatthias Hübner

                          484




                          484





















                              0












                              $begingroup$

                              Probably the topology on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ (or for other non-compact topological group in place of $mathbb R$) is not what you anticipated. It is not sup norm, for example. It is an ascending union, categorically a "strict colimit" (=strict inductive limit=...) of spaces of the form $C^o(K)$ as $K$ ranges over compact subsets of $mathbb R$. (These are Banach spaces.)



                              In particular, from the characterizing mapping property of "colimit", a linear map or functional from $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ is continuous if and only if its restriction to each $C^o(K)$ is continuous.



                              So the dual of $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ does not include "unbounded" functionals in a true sense, because even on such spaces "continuous" is still equivalent to "bounded"... but "bounded" has a more complicated sense.






                              share|cite|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$












                              • $begingroup$
                                Sure, if I don't take C_c( R ) with the norm topology but with some different topology then I can get more continuous functionals. But this doesn't answer my question: in Izzo's proof (if I understand it correctly) he explicitly takes the space of all linear functionals on C_c and gives it a topology and claims that something like Banach-Alaouglo holds.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Nathanael Schilling
                                Feb 14 at 22:37










                              • $begingroup$
                                @NathanaelSchilling, I would strongly doubt that the intent is to take all linear functionals on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$, since things would run amok. Ah... Just realized: when functional analysts say "dual" they almost-surely mean "continuous dual". Rarely, if ever, "purely-algebraic dual". I'd bet a dollar that that's the intent.
                                $endgroup$
                                – paul garrett
                                Feb 14 at 22:44











                              • $begingroup$
                                Yes usually I would agree. I've never seen the algebraic dual being used in functional analysis. Except (implicitly) in the Riesz-Markov theorem, which takes an arbitrary positive functional on C_c and shows it can be represented by a measure. But since the author emphasises the word "all" here and the context is very similar, it got me wondering if this perhaps is possible... I don't see any obvious obstructions to defining a weak^* topology on this space, and even if the result is not a topological vector space it could be that some sort of compactness results hold even in this setting?
                                $endgroup$
                                – Nathanael Schilling
                                Feb 15 at 14:19










                              • $begingroup$
                                Also, btw, the "positive functional" version of Riesz-Markov-Kakutani is just a veiled form of a continuity assumption (Banach-Steinhaus...), but/and has a certain popularity because it's easier to say "positive" than to describe the topology on compactly-supported continuous functions.
                                $endgroup$
                                – paul garrett
                                Feb 16 at 18:26















                              0












                              $begingroup$

                              Probably the topology on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ (or for other non-compact topological group in place of $mathbb R$) is not what you anticipated. It is not sup norm, for example. It is an ascending union, categorically a "strict colimit" (=strict inductive limit=...) of spaces of the form $C^o(K)$ as $K$ ranges over compact subsets of $mathbb R$. (These are Banach spaces.)



                              In particular, from the characterizing mapping property of "colimit", a linear map or functional from $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ is continuous if and only if its restriction to each $C^o(K)$ is continuous.



                              So the dual of $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ does not include "unbounded" functionals in a true sense, because even on such spaces "continuous" is still equivalent to "bounded"... but "bounded" has a more complicated sense.






                              share|cite|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$












                              • $begingroup$
                                Sure, if I don't take C_c( R ) with the norm topology but with some different topology then I can get more continuous functionals. But this doesn't answer my question: in Izzo's proof (if I understand it correctly) he explicitly takes the space of all linear functionals on C_c and gives it a topology and claims that something like Banach-Alaouglo holds.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Nathanael Schilling
                                Feb 14 at 22:37










                              • $begingroup$
                                @NathanaelSchilling, I would strongly doubt that the intent is to take all linear functionals on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$, since things would run amok. Ah... Just realized: when functional analysts say "dual" they almost-surely mean "continuous dual". Rarely, if ever, "purely-algebraic dual". I'd bet a dollar that that's the intent.
                                $endgroup$
                                – paul garrett
                                Feb 14 at 22:44











                              • $begingroup$
                                Yes usually I would agree. I've never seen the algebraic dual being used in functional analysis. Except (implicitly) in the Riesz-Markov theorem, which takes an arbitrary positive functional on C_c and shows it can be represented by a measure. But since the author emphasises the word "all" here and the context is very similar, it got me wondering if this perhaps is possible... I don't see any obvious obstructions to defining a weak^* topology on this space, and even if the result is not a topological vector space it could be that some sort of compactness results hold even in this setting?
                                $endgroup$
                                – Nathanael Schilling
                                Feb 15 at 14:19










                              • $begingroup$
                                Also, btw, the "positive functional" version of Riesz-Markov-Kakutani is just a veiled form of a continuity assumption (Banach-Steinhaus...), but/and has a certain popularity because it's easier to say "positive" than to describe the topology on compactly-supported continuous functions.
                                $endgroup$
                                – paul garrett
                                Feb 16 at 18:26













                              0












                              0








                              0





                              $begingroup$

                              Probably the topology on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ (or for other non-compact topological group in place of $mathbb R$) is not what you anticipated. It is not sup norm, for example. It is an ascending union, categorically a "strict colimit" (=strict inductive limit=...) of spaces of the form $C^o(K)$ as $K$ ranges over compact subsets of $mathbb R$. (These are Banach spaces.)



                              In particular, from the characterizing mapping property of "colimit", a linear map or functional from $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ is continuous if and only if its restriction to each $C^o(K)$ is continuous.



                              So the dual of $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ does not include "unbounded" functionals in a true sense, because even on such spaces "continuous" is still equivalent to "bounded"... but "bounded" has a more complicated sense.






                              share|cite|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$



                              Probably the topology on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ (or for other non-compact topological group in place of $mathbb R$) is not what you anticipated. It is not sup norm, for example. It is an ascending union, categorically a "strict colimit" (=strict inductive limit=...) of spaces of the form $C^o(K)$ as $K$ ranges over compact subsets of $mathbb R$. (These are Banach spaces.)



                              In particular, from the characterizing mapping property of "colimit", a linear map or functional from $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ is continuous if and only if its restriction to each $C^o(K)$ is continuous.



                              So the dual of $C^o_c(mathbb R)$ does not include "unbounded" functionals in a true sense, because even on such spaces "continuous" is still equivalent to "bounded"... but "bounded" has a more complicated sense.







                              share|cite|improve this answer












                              share|cite|improve this answer



                              share|cite|improve this answer










                              answered Feb 14 at 18:05









                              paul garrettpaul garrett

                              32k362118




                              32k362118











                              • $begingroup$
                                Sure, if I don't take C_c( R ) with the norm topology but with some different topology then I can get more continuous functionals. But this doesn't answer my question: in Izzo's proof (if I understand it correctly) he explicitly takes the space of all linear functionals on C_c and gives it a topology and claims that something like Banach-Alaouglo holds.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Nathanael Schilling
                                Feb 14 at 22:37










                              • $begingroup$
                                @NathanaelSchilling, I would strongly doubt that the intent is to take all linear functionals on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$, since things would run amok. Ah... Just realized: when functional analysts say "dual" they almost-surely mean "continuous dual". Rarely, if ever, "purely-algebraic dual". I'd bet a dollar that that's the intent.
                                $endgroup$
                                – paul garrett
                                Feb 14 at 22:44











                              • $begingroup$
                                Yes usually I would agree. I've never seen the algebraic dual being used in functional analysis. Except (implicitly) in the Riesz-Markov theorem, which takes an arbitrary positive functional on C_c and shows it can be represented by a measure. But since the author emphasises the word "all" here and the context is very similar, it got me wondering if this perhaps is possible... I don't see any obvious obstructions to defining a weak^* topology on this space, and even if the result is not a topological vector space it could be that some sort of compactness results hold even in this setting?
                                $endgroup$
                                – Nathanael Schilling
                                Feb 15 at 14:19










                              • $begingroup$
                                Also, btw, the "positive functional" version of Riesz-Markov-Kakutani is just a veiled form of a continuity assumption (Banach-Steinhaus...), but/and has a certain popularity because it's easier to say "positive" than to describe the topology on compactly-supported continuous functions.
                                $endgroup$
                                – paul garrett
                                Feb 16 at 18:26
















                              • $begingroup$
                                Sure, if I don't take C_c( R ) with the norm topology but with some different topology then I can get more continuous functionals. But this doesn't answer my question: in Izzo's proof (if I understand it correctly) he explicitly takes the space of all linear functionals on C_c and gives it a topology and claims that something like Banach-Alaouglo holds.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Nathanael Schilling
                                Feb 14 at 22:37










                              • $begingroup$
                                @NathanaelSchilling, I would strongly doubt that the intent is to take all linear functionals on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$, since things would run amok. Ah... Just realized: when functional analysts say "dual" they almost-surely mean "continuous dual". Rarely, if ever, "purely-algebraic dual". I'd bet a dollar that that's the intent.
                                $endgroup$
                                – paul garrett
                                Feb 14 at 22:44











                              • $begingroup$
                                Yes usually I would agree. I've never seen the algebraic dual being used in functional analysis. Except (implicitly) in the Riesz-Markov theorem, which takes an arbitrary positive functional on C_c and shows it can be represented by a measure. But since the author emphasises the word "all" here and the context is very similar, it got me wondering if this perhaps is possible... I don't see any obvious obstructions to defining a weak^* topology on this space, and even if the result is not a topological vector space it could be that some sort of compactness results hold even in this setting?
                                $endgroup$
                                – Nathanael Schilling
                                Feb 15 at 14:19










                              • $begingroup$
                                Also, btw, the "positive functional" version of Riesz-Markov-Kakutani is just a veiled form of a continuity assumption (Banach-Steinhaus...), but/and has a certain popularity because it's easier to say "positive" than to describe the topology on compactly-supported continuous functions.
                                $endgroup$
                                – paul garrett
                                Feb 16 at 18:26















                              $begingroup$
                              Sure, if I don't take C_c( R ) with the norm topology but with some different topology then I can get more continuous functionals. But this doesn't answer my question: in Izzo's proof (if I understand it correctly) he explicitly takes the space of all linear functionals on C_c and gives it a topology and claims that something like Banach-Alaouglo holds.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Nathanael Schilling
                              Feb 14 at 22:37




                              $begingroup$
                              Sure, if I don't take C_c( R ) with the norm topology but with some different topology then I can get more continuous functionals. But this doesn't answer my question: in Izzo's proof (if I understand it correctly) he explicitly takes the space of all linear functionals on C_c and gives it a topology and claims that something like Banach-Alaouglo holds.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Nathanael Schilling
                              Feb 14 at 22:37












                              $begingroup$
                              @NathanaelSchilling, I would strongly doubt that the intent is to take all linear functionals on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$, since things would run amok. Ah... Just realized: when functional analysts say "dual" they almost-surely mean "continuous dual". Rarely, if ever, "purely-algebraic dual". I'd bet a dollar that that's the intent.
                              $endgroup$
                              – paul garrett
                              Feb 14 at 22:44





                              $begingroup$
                              @NathanaelSchilling, I would strongly doubt that the intent is to take all linear functionals on $C^o_c(mathbb R)$, since things would run amok. Ah... Just realized: when functional analysts say "dual" they almost-surely mean "continuous dual". Rarely, if ever, "purely-algebraic dual". I'd bet a dollar that that's the intent.
                              $endgroup$
                              – paul garrett
                              Feb 14 at 22:44













                              $begingroup$
                              Yes usually I would agree. I've never seen the algebraic dual being used in functional analysis. Except (implicitly) in the Riesz-Markov theorem, which takes an arbitrary positive functional on C_c and shows it can be represented by a measure. But since the author emphasises the word "all" here and the context is very similar, it got me wondering if this perhaps is possible... I don't see any obvious obstructions to defining a weak^* topology on this space, and even if the result is not a topological vector space it could be that some sort of compactness results hold even in this setting?
                              $endgroup$
                              – Nathanael Schilling
                              Feb 15 at 14:19




                              $begingroup$
                              Yes usually I would agree. I've never seen the algebraic dual being used in functional analysis. Except (implicitly) in the Riesz-Markov theorem, which takes an arbitrary positive functional on C_c and shows it can be represented by a measure. But since the author emphasises the word "all" here and the context is very similar, it got me wondering if this perhaps is possible... I don't see any obvious obstructions to defining a weak^* topology on this space, and even if the result is not a topological vector space it could be that some sort of compactness results hold even in this setting?
                              $endgroup$
                              – Nathanael Schilling
                              Feb 15 at 14:19












                              $begingroup$
                              Also, btw, the "positive functional" version of Riesz-Markov-Kakutani is just a veiled form of a continuity assumption (Banach-Steinhaus...), but/and has a certain popularity because it's easier to say "positive" than to describe the topology on compactly-supported continuous functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – paul garrett
                              Feb 16 at 18:26




                              $begingroup$
                              Also, btw, the "positive functional" version of Riesz-Markov-Kakutani is just a veiled form of a continuity assumption (Banach-Steinhaus...), but/and has a certain popularity because it's easier to say "positive" than to describe the topology on compactly-supported continuous functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – paul garrett
                              Feb 16 at 18:26

















                              draft saved

                              draft discarded
















































                              Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid


                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                              Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function ()
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3112682%2fweak-topology-on-algebraic-dual%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              Solar Wings Breeze Design and development Specifications (Breeze) References Navigation menu1368-485X"Hang glider: Breeze (Solar Wings)"e

                              Kathakali Contents Etymology and nomenclature History Repertoire Songs and musical instruments Traditional plays Styles: Sampradayam Training centers and awards Relationship to other dance forms See also Notes References External links Navigation menueThe Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-MSouth Asian Folklore: An EncyclopediaRoutledge International Encyclopedia of Women: Global Women's Issues and KnowledgeKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlayKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlayKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play10.1353/atj.2005.0004The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-MEncyclopedia of HinduismKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlaySonic Liturgy: Ritual and Music in Hindu Tradition"The Mirror of Gesture"Kathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play"Kathakali"Indian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceMedieval Indian Literature: An AnthologyThe Oxford Companion to Indian TheatreSouth Asian Folklore: An Encyclopedia : Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri LankaThe Rise of Performance Studies: Rethinking Richard Schechner's Broad SpectrumIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceModern Asian Theatre and Performance 1900-2000Critical Theory and PerformanceBetween Theater and AnthropologyKathakali603847011Indian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceBetween Theater and AnthropologyBetween Theater and AnthropologyNambeesan Smaraka AwardsArchivedThe Cambridge Guide to TheatreRoutledge International Encyclopedia of Women: Global Women's Issues and KnowledgeThe Garland Encyclopedia of World Music: South Asia : the Indian subcontinentThe Ethos of Noh: Actors and Their Art10.2307/1145740By Means of Performance: Intercultural Studies of Theatre and Ritual10.1017/s204912550000100xReconceiving the Renaissance: A Critical ReaderPerformance TheoryListening to Theatre: The Aural Dimension of Beijing Opera10.2307/1146013Kathakali: The Art of the Non-WorldlyOn KathakaliKathakali, the dance theatreThe Kathakali Complex: Performance & StructureKathakali Dance-Drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play10.1093/obo/9780195399318-0071Drama and Ritual of Early Hinduism"In the Shadow of Hollywood Orientalism: Authentic East Indian Dancing"10.1080/08949460490274013Sanskrit Play Production in Ancient IndiaIndian Music: History and StructureBharata, the Nāṭyaśāstra233639306Table of Contents2238067286469807Dance In Indian Painting10.2307/32047833204783Kathakali Dance-Theatre: A Visual Narrative of Sacred Indian MimeIndian Classical Dance: The Renaissance and BeyondKathakali: an indigenous art-form of Keralaeee

                              Method to test if a number is a perfect power? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Detecting perfect squares faster than by extracting square rooteffective way to get the integer sequence A181392 from oeisA rarely mentioned fact about perfect powersHow many numbers such $n$ are there that $n<100,lfloorsqrtn rfloor mid n$Check perfect squareness by modulo division against multiple basesFor what pair of integers $(a,b)$ is $3^a + 7^b$ a perfect square.Do there exist any positive integers $n$ such that $lfloore^nrfloor$ is a perfect power? What is the probability that one exists?finding perfect power factors of an integerProve that the sequence contains a perfect square for any natural number $m $ in the domain of $f$ .Counting Perfect Powers