A problem from Hardy's_Pure Mathematics on Real variables about Linear equations in 3 variables The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InEssay about the art and applications of differential equations?Quotient-lifting propertiesIs there a general algorithm to solve computable integral equation?Is there a codifferential for a covariant exterior derivative?Solvability of the equation $2a_1^2 = a_2^n + a_3^n + a_4^n$ when $n geq 5$ is prime?A monoid where every element has finitely many divisorsWhy does what I've written fail to define truth?existence of solution to set of non-linear equationsHelp me motivate a topic.When does a set of inequalities over series imply an inequality over variables?
"To split hairs" vs "To be pedantic"
Can't find the latex code for the ⍎ (down tack jot) symbol
Carnot-Caratheodory metric
How to deal with fear of taking dependencies
What are the motivations for publishing new editions of an existing textbook, beyond new discoveries in a field?
Inversion Puzzle
Realistic Alternatives to Dust: What Else Could Feed a Plankton Bloom?
Why could you hear an Amstrad CPC working?
Should I write numbers in words or as numerals when there are multiple next to each other?
Why don't Unix/Linux systems traverse through directories until they find the required version of a linked library?
Why is Grand Jury testimony secret?
Does light intensity oscillate really fast since it is a wave?
Limit to 0 ambiguity
Deadlock Graph and Interpretation, solution to avoid
What is the motivation for a law requiring 2 parties to consent for recording a conversation
What could be the right powersource for 15 seconds lifespan disposable giant chainsaw?
How can I fix this gap between bookcases I made?
I see my dog run
Is domain driven design an anti-SQL pattern?
Inflated grade on resume at previous job, might former employer tell new employer?
Extreme, unacceptable situation and I can't attend work tomorrow morning
Lethal sonic weapons
What is the steepest angle that a canal can be traversable without locks?
Output the Arecibo Message
A problem from Hardy's_Pure Mathematics on Real variables about Linear equations in 3 variables
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InEssay about the art and applications of differential equations?Quotient-lifting propertiesIs there a general algorithm to solve computable integral equation?Is there a codifferential for a covariant exterior derivative?Solvability of the equation $2a_1^2 = a_2^n + a_3^n + a_4^n$ when $n geq 5$ is prime?A monoid where every element has finitely many divisorsWhy does what I've written fail to define truth?existence of solution to set of non-linear equationsHelp me motivate a topic.When does a set of inequalities over series imply an inequality over variables?
$begingroup$
It may be my stupidity, yet I am unable to understand what the following problem asks
(Q.1 Miscellaneous Examples, Chapter-1: Real Variables).
It says:
What are the conditions that $ax+by+cz=0$,
- (1) for all values of $x,y,z$ ;
- (2) for all values of $x,y,z$ subject to $alpha x+beta y+gamma z=0$;
- (3) for all values of $x,y,z$ subject to both $alpha x+beta y+gamma z=0$ and $Ax+By+Cz=0$?"
Initially I thought it was about linear diophantine equations in three variables, but then it is already given that the constant term is $0$ which means that it is a solvable diophantine equation (for all the coefficients divide $0$). So the problem is surely not about the solvability of the equation. Then, what it is about? What does the author mean by 'conditions'? Any suggestions are welcome.
reference-request real-numbers linear-diophantine-equations
$endgroup$
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
It may be my stupidity, yet I am unable to understand what the following problem asks
(Q.1 Miscellaneous Examples, Chapter-1: Real Variables).
It says:
What are the conditions that $ax+by+cz=0$,
- (1) for all values of $x,y,z$ ;
- (2) for all values of $x,y,z$ subject to $alpha x+beta y+gamma z=0$;
- (3) for all values of $x,y,z$ subject to both $alpha x+beta y+gamma z=0$ and $Ax+By+Cz=0$?"
Initially I thought it was about linear diophantine equations in three variables, but then it is already given that the constant term is $0$ which means that it is a solvable diophantine equation (for all the coefficients divide $0$). So the problem is surely not about the solvability of the equation. Then, what it is about? What does the author mean by 'conditions'? Any suggestions are welcome.
reference-request real-numbers linear-diophantine-equations
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
What are $a,b,c,x,y,z$???
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 5:20
2
$begingroup$
But Diophantine equations only involve integers...
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 6:08
1
$begingroup$
Very poorly written question, so not your fault.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 11:12
1
$begingroup$
@user21820 It was perfectly clear and well written following the conventions used when Hardy wrote it. It's only "poorly written" in the sense that "Shakespeare is poorly written, because he couldn't even spell many of the words correctly according to a 21st-century dictionary".
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Mar 23 at 14:17
1
$begingroup$
@alephzero: Your claims are unjustified.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 14:57
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
It may be my stupidity, yet I am unable to understand what the following problem asks
(Q.1 Miscellaneous Examples, Chapter-1: Real Variables).
It says:
What are the conditions that $ax+by+cz=0$,
- (1) for all values of $x,y,z$ ;
- (2) for all values of $x,y,z$ subject to $alpha x+beta y+gamma z=0$;
- (3) for all values of $x,y,z$ subject to both $alpha x+beta y+gamma z=0$ and $Ax+By+Cz=0$?"
Initially I thought it was about linear diophantine equations in three variables, but then it is already given that the constant term is $0$ which means that it is a solvable diophantine equation (for all the coefficients divide $0$). So the problem is surely not about the solvability of the equation. Then, what it is about? What does the author mean by 'conditions'? Any suggestions are welcome.
reference-request real-numbers linear-diophantine-equations
$endgroup$
It may be my stupidity, yet I am unable to understand what the following problem asks
(Q.1 Miscellaneous Examples, Chapter-1: Real Variables).
It says:
What are the conditions that $ax+by+cz=0$,
- (1) for all values of $x,y,z$ ;
- (2) for all values of $x,y,z$ subject to $alpha x+beta y+gamma z=0$;
- (3) for all values of $x,y,z$ subject to both $alpha x+beta y+gamma z=0$ and $Ax+By+Cz=0$?"
Initially I thought it was about linear diophantine equations in three variables, but then it is already given that the constant term is $0$ which means that it is a solvable diophantine equation (for all the coefficients divide $0$). So the problem is surely not about the solvability of the equation. Then, what it is about? What does the author mean by 'conditions'? Any suggestions are welcome.
reference-request real-numbers linear-diophantine-equations
reference-request real-numbers linear-diophantine-equations
edited Mar 23 at 6:32
MarianD
2,2611618
2,2611618
asked Mar 23 at 5:00
Awe Kumar JhaAwe Kumar Jha
623113
623113
1
$begingroup$
What are $a,b,c,x,y,z$???
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 5:20
2
$begingroup$
But Diophantine equations only involve integers...
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 6:08
1
$begingroup$
Very poorly written question, so not your fault.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 11:12
1
$begingroup$
@user21820 It was perfectly clear and well written following the conventions used when Hardy wrote it. It's only "poorly written" in the sense that "Shakespeare is poorly written, because he couldn't even spell many of the words correctly according to a 21st-century dictionary".
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Mar 23 at 14:17
1
$begingroup$
@alephzero: Your claims are unjustified.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 14:57
|
show 2 more comments
1
$begingroup$
What are $a,b,c,x,y,z$???
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 5:20
2
$begingroup$
But Diophantine equations only involve integers...
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 6:08
1
$begingroup$
Very poorly written question, so not your fault.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 11:12
1
$begingroup$
@user21820 It was perfectly clear and well written following the conventions used when Hardy wrote it. It's only "poorly written" in the sense that "Shakespeare is poorly written, because he couldn't even spell many of the words correctly according to a 21st-century dictionary".
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Mar 23 at 14:17
1
$begingroup$
@alephzero: Your claims are unjustified.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 14:57
1
1
$begingroup$
What are $a,b,c,x,y,z$???
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 5:20
$begingroup$
What are $a,b,c,x,y,z$???
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 5:20
2
2
$begingroup$
But Diophantine equations only involve integers...
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 6:08
$begingroup$
But Diophantine equations only involve integers...
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 6:08
1
1
$begingroup$
Very poorly written question, so not your fault.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 11:12
$begingroup$
Very poorly written question, so not your fault.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 11:12
1
1
$begingroup$
@user21820 It was perfectly clear and well written following the conventions used when Hardy wrote it. It's only "poorly written" in the sense that "Shakespeare is poorly written, because he couldn't even spell many of the words correctly according to a 21st-century dictionary".
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Mar 23 at 14:17
$begingroup$
@user21820 It was perfectly clear and well written following the conventions used when Hardy wrote it. It's only "poorly written" in the sense that "Shakespeare is poorly written, because he couldn't even spell many of the words correctly according to a 21st-century dictionary".
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Mar 23 at 14:17
1
1
$begingroup$
@alephzero: Your claims are unjustified.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 14:57
$begingroup$
@alephzero: Your claims are unjustified.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 14:57
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I think Hardy is asking for conditions on $(a,b,c)$, to be given in terms of $(A,B,C)$ and $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. The $(x,y,z)$ are dummy variables, note the "for all".
For (1), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors? Answer, clearly only the zero vector, so $(a,b,c)=(0,0,0)$.
For (2), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors which are orthogonal to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$? Answer, clearly those which are parallel to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. So the condition is that for some scalar $lambda$, we must have $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)$.
Case (3) is left to the reader; the condition is clearly that for some scalars $lambda, mu$ we must have that $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)+mu (A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Geometrically, the solution to (1) is the origin. The solution to (2) is the line through the origin and $(alpha, beta, gamma)$. And the solution to (3) is the plane containing the origin, $(alpha, beta, gamma)$ and $(A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 23 at 13:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since I don't have the book available, nor do I recall ever reading it (at least not any recent version of it), I can't be sure what it is getting at as I don't have the context of knowing what was written in Chapter $1$. It should likely help give you an idea.
However, here is what it seems to me. As it's a book about real variables, I doubt the equations are supposed to be diophantine ones, i.e., where the variables can only be integers. Instead, it's to do with the degrees of freedom vs. how many linearly independent constraints you have. With just $1$ equation, you can generally pick any $2$ values and then determine the third, e.g., choose $y$ and $z$ to then get $x$ from
$$x = frac-by-cza tag1labeleq1$$
This is assuming that $a neq 0$.
With $2$ constraint equations, assuming they're linearly independent, you can solve each for $1$ variable to eliminate it, resulting in an equation with $2$ variables. You then have $1$ degree of freedom to choose $1$ of those remaining variables, with the other $2$ then being determined. For example, using your provided $2$ equations:
$$ax + by + cz = 0 tag2labeleq2$$
$$alpha x + beta y + gamma z = 0 tag3labeleq3$$
Multiply eqrefeq2 by $alpha$, multiply eqrefeq3 by $a$, and subtract the $2$ resulting equations to get
$$left(alpha b - abetaright)y + left(alpha c - agammaright)z = 0 ; Rightarrow ; y = left(fracagamma - alpha calpha b - abetaright)z tag4labeleq4$$
This is assuming that $alpha b - abeta neq 0$. Thus, for each $z$, you get a $y$ from eqrefeq4 and then an $x$ from eqrefeq1.
For $3$ linear constraint equations, assuming they're all linearly independent, you get just one set of values.
If any of these equations are linearly dependent, this results in an extra degree of freedom for each equation that is dependent.
Based on your understanding of chapter 1, please indicate if this doesn't match what you might expect.
Update: Based on the comment by ancientmathematician about a geometric argument, note that one equation gives a plane, having $2$ independent equations gives the intersection of $2$ planes, i.e., a line, and $3$ independent equations gives the intersection of $3$ planes, i.e., a point. Perhaps these are the "conditions" being referred to. However, based on how the question is specifically worded, I think a better fit would be what is described in ancientmathematician's answer.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
the 1st chapter is about rational and irrational numbers, irrationality, surds, linear arithmetic continuum, Dedekind theorem, Weierstrass theorem and limit points.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:31
$begingroup$
@AweKumarJha Thanks for the info. Offhand, I don't see any direct connection between the problem and any of those topics, but linear arithmetic continuum seems like the closest one. Do you think what I wrote fits to at least some extent with what the problem is asking for?
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
Mar 23 at 6:35
1
$begingroup$
in fact what you wrote is the only thing that presently fits to a remarkable extent to the context, for I don't see other possibilities. Anyway, thanks for your support.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
In the 1921 3rd edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 31, and in the 1952 10th edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 32. Incidentally, I see nothing in Chapter I to suggest that this has anything to do with Diophantine equations. Indeed, about the only thing in this chapter that I can find even remotely involving Diophantine equations are some irrationality proofs by contradiction.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Mar 23 at 7:16
1
$begingroup$
I rather suspect that Hardy (and those for whom he wrote the book) would have given a geometric and not algebraic argument. I don't know why the problem is set here in the book, but of course it's the sort of thing needed when one comes to Lagrange multipliers.
$endgroup$
– ancientmathematician
Mar 23 at 7:57
|
show 1 more comment
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3158966%2fa-problem-from-hardys-pure-mathematics-on-real-variables-about-linear-equations%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I think Hardy is asking for conditions on $(a,b,c)$, to be given in terms of $(A,B,C)$ and $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. The $(x,y,z)$ are dummy variables, note the "for all".
For (1), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors? Answer, clearly only the zero vector, so $(a,b,c)=(0,0,0)$.
For (2), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors which are orthogonal to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$? Answer, clearly those which are parallel to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. So the condition is that for some scalar $lambda$, we must have $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)$.
Case (3) is left to the reader; the condition is clearly that for some scalars $lambda, mu$ we must have that $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)+mu (A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Geometrically, the solution to (1) is the origin. The solution to (2) is the line through the origin and $(alpha, beta, gamma)$. And the solution to (3) is the plane containing the origin, $(alpha, beta, gamma)$ and $(A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 23 at 13:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think Hardy is asking for conditions on $(a,b,c)$, to be given in terms of $(A,B,C)$ and $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. The $(x,y,z)$ are dummy variables, note the "for all".
For (1), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors? Answer, clearly only the zero vector, so $(a,b,c)=(0,0,0)$.
For (2), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors which are orthogonal to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$? Answer, clearly those which are parallel to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. So the condition is that for some scalar $lambda$, we must have $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)$.
Case (3) is left to the reader; the condition is clearly that for some scalars $lambda, mu$ we must have that $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)+mu (A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Geometrically, the solution to (1) is the origin. The solution to (2) is the line through the origin and $(alpha, beta, gamma)$. And the solution to (3) is the plane containing the origin, $(alpha, beta, gamma)$ and $(A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 23 at 13:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think Hardy is asking for conditions on $(a,b,c)$, to be given in terms of $(A,B,C)$ and $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. The $(x,y,z)$ are dummy variables, note the "for all".
For (1), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors? Answer, clearly only the zero vector, so $(a,b,c)=(0,0,0)$.
For (2), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors which are orthogonal to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$? Answer, clearly those which are parallel to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. So the condition is that for some scalar $lambda$, we must have $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)$.
Case (3) is left to the reader; the condition is clearly that for some scalars $lambda, mu$ we must have that $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)+mu (A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
I think Hardy is asking for conditions on $(a,b,c)$, to be given in terms of $(A,B,C)$ and $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. The $(x,y,z)$ are dummy variables, note the "for all".
For (1), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors? Answer, clearly only the zero vector, so $(a,b,c)=(0,0,0)$.
For (2), which $(a,b,c)$ are orthogonal to all vectors which are orthogonal to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$? Answer, clearly those which are parallel to $(alpha,beta,gamma)$. So the condition is that for some scalar $lambda$, we must have $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)$.
Case (3) is left to the reader; the condition is clearly that for some scalars $lambda, mu$ we must have that $(a,b,c)=lambda (alpha, beta, gamma)+mu (A,B,C)$.
answered Mar 23 at 8:07
ancientmathematicianancientmathematician
4,5221513
4,5221513
$begingroup$
Geometrically, the solution to (1) is the origin. The solution to (2) is the line through the origin and $(alpha, beta, gamma)$. And the solution to (3) is the plane containing the origin, $(alpha, beta, gamma)$ and $(A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 23 at 13:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Geometrically, the solution to (1) is the origin. The solution to (2) is the line through the origin and $(alpha, beta, gamma)$. And the solution to (3) is the plane containing the origin, $(alpha, beta, gamma)$ and $(A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 23 at 13:57
$begingroup$
Geometrically, the solution to (1) is the origin. The solution to (2) is the line through the origin and $(alpha, beta, gamma)$. And the solution to (3) is the plane containing the origin, $(alpha, beta, gamma)$ and $(A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 23 at 13:57
$begingroup$
Geometrically, the solution to (1) is the origin. The solution to (2) is the line through the origin and $(alpha, beta, gamma)$. And the solution to (3) is the plane containing the origin, $(alpha, beta, gamma)$ and $(A,B,C)$.
$endgroup$
– Paul Sinclair
Mar 23 at 13:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since I don't have the book available, nor do I recall ever reading it (at least not any recent version of it), I can't be sure what it is getting at as I don't have the context of knowing what was written in Chapter $1$. It should likely help give you an idea.
However, here is what it seems to me. As it's a book about real variables, I doubt the equations are supposed to be diophantine ones, i.e., where the variables can only be integers. Instead, it's to do with the degrees of freedom vs. how many linearly independent constraints you have. With just $1$ equation, you can generally pick any $2$ values and then determine the third, e.g., choose $y$ and $z$ to then get $x$ from
$$x = frac-by-cza tag1labeleq1$$
This is assuming that $a neq 0$.
With $2$ constraint equations, assuming they're linearly independent, you can solve each for $1$ variable to eliminate it, resulting in an equation with $2$ variables. You then have $1$ degree of freedom to choose $1$ of those remaining variables, with the other $2$ then being determined. For example, using your provided $2$ equations:
$$ax + by + cz = 0 tag2labeleq2$$
$$alpha x + beta y + gamma z = 0 tag3labeleq3$$
Multiply eqrefeq2 by $alpha$, multiply eqrefeq3 by $a$, and subtract the $2$ resulting equations to get
$$left(alpha b - abetaright)y + left(alpha c - agammaright)z = 0 ; Rightarrow ; y = left(fracagamma - alpha calpha b - abetaright)z tag4labeleq4$$
This is assuming that $alpha b - abeta neq 0$. Thus, for each $z$, you get a $y$ from eqrefeq4 and then an $x$ from eqrefeq1.
For $3$ linear constraint equations, assuming they're all linearly independent, you get just one set of values.
If any of these equations are linearly dependent, this results in an extra degree of freedom for each equation that is dependent.
Based on your understanding of chapter 1, please indicate if this doesn't match what you might expect.
Update: Based on the comment by ancientmathematician about a geometric argument, note that one equation gives a plane, having $2$ independent equations gives the intersection of $2$ planes, i.e., a line, and $3$ independent equations gives the intersection of $3$ planes, i.e., a point. Perhaps these are the "conditions" being referred to. However, based on how the question is specifically worded, I think a better fit would be what is described in ancientmathematician's answer.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
the 1st chapter is about rational and irrational numbers, irrationality, surds, linear arithmetic continuum, Dedekind theorem, Weierstrass theorem and limit points.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:31
$begingroup$
@AweKumarJha Thanks for the info. Offhand, I don't see any direct connection between the problem and any of those topics, but linear arithmetic continuum seems like the closest one. Do you think what I wrote fits to at least some extent with what the problem is asking for?
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
Mar 23 at 6:35
1
$begingroup$
in fact what you wrote is the only thing that presently fits to a remarkable extent to the context, for I don't see other possibilities. Anyway, thanks for your support.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
In the 1921 3rd edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 31, and in the 1952 10th edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 32. Incidentally, I see nothing in Chapter I to suggest that this has anything to do with Diophantine equations. Indeed, about the only thing in this chapter that I can find even remotely involving Diophantine equations are some irrationality proofs by contradiction.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Mar 23 at 7:16
1
$begingroup$
I rather suspect that Hardy (and those for whom he wrote the book) would have given a geometric and not algebraic argument. I don't know why the problem is set here in the book, but of course it's the sort of thing needed when one comes to Lagrange multipliers.
$endgroup$
– ancientmathematician
Mar 23 at 7:57
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Since I don't have the book available, nor do I recall ever reading it (at least not any recent version of it), I can't be sure what it is getting at as I don't have the context of knowing what was written in Chapter $1$. It should likely help give you an idea.
However, here is what it seems to me. As it's a book about real variables, I doubt the equations are supposed to be diophantine ones, i.e., where the variables can only be integers. Instead, it's to do with the degrees of freedom vs. how many linearly independent constraints you have. With just $1$ equation, you can generally pick any $2$ values and then determine the third, e.g., choose $y$ and $z$ to then get $x$ from
$$x = frac-by-cza tag1labeleq1$$
This is assuming that $a neq 0$.
With $2$ constraint equations, assuming they're linearly independent, you can solve each for $1$ variable to eliminate it, resulting in an equation with $2$ variables. You then have $1$ degree of freedom to choose $1$ of those remaining variables, with the other $2$ then being determined. For example, using your provided $2$ equations:
$$ax + by + cz = 0 tag2labeleq2$$
$$alpha x + beta y + gamma z = 0 tag3labeleq3$$
Multiply eqrefeq2 by $alpha$, multiply eqrefeq3 by $a$, and subtract the $2$ resulting equations to get
$$left(alpha b - abetaright)y + left(alpha c - agammaright)z = 0 ; Rightarrow ; y = left(fracagamma - alpha calpha b - abetaright)z tag4labeleq4$$
This is assuming that $alpha b - abeta neq 0$. Thus, for each $z$, you get a $y$ from eqrefeq4 and then an $x$ from eqrefeq1.
For $3$ linear constraint equations, assuming they're all linearly independent, you get just one set of values.
If any of these equations are linearly dependent, this results in an extra degree of freedom for each equation that is dependent.
Based on your understanding of chapter 1, please indicate if this doesn't match what you might expect.
Update: Based on the comment by ancientmathematician about a geometric argument, note that one equation gives a plane, having $2$ independent equations gives the intersection of $2$ planes, i.e., a line, and $3$ independent equations gives the intersection of $3$ planes, i.e., a point. Perhaps these are the "conditions" being referred to. However, based on how the question is specifically worded, I think a better fit would be what is described in ancientmathematician's answer.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
the 1st chapter is about rational and irrational numbers, irrationality, surds, linear arithmetic continuum, Dedekind theorem, Weierstrass theorem and limit points.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:31
$begingroup$
@AweKumarJha Thanks for the info. Offhand, I don't see any direct connection between the problem and any of those topics, but linear arithmetic continuum seems like the closest one. Do you think what I wrote fits to at least some extent with what the problem is asking for?
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
Mar 23 at 6:35
1
$begingroup$
in fact what you wrote is the only thing that presently fits to a remarkable extent to the context, for I don't see other possibilities. Anyway, thanks for your support.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
In the 1921 3rd edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 31, and in the 1952 10th edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 32. Incidentally, I see nothing in Chapter I to suggest that this has anything to do with Diophantine equations. Indeed, about the only thing in this chapter that I can find even remotely involving Diophantine equations are some irrationality proofs by contradiction.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Mar 23 at 7:16
1
$begingroup$
I rather suspect that Hardy (and those for whom he wrote the book) would have given a geometric and not algebraic argument. I don't know why the problem is set here in the book, but of course it's the sort of thing needed when one comes to Lagrange multipliers.
$endgroup$
– ancientmathematician
Mar 23 at 7:57
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Since I don't have the book available, nor do I recall ever reading it (at least not any recent version of it), I can't be sure what it is getting at as I don't have the context of knowing what was written in Chapter $1$. It should likely help give you an idea.
However, here is what it seems to me. As it's a book about real variables, I doubt the equations are supposed to be diophantine ones, i.e., where the variables can only be integers. Instead, it's to do with the degrees of freedom vs. how many linearly independent constraints you have. With just $1$ equation, you can generally pick any $2$ values and then determine the third, e.g., choose $y$ and $z$ to then get $x$ from
$$x = frac-by-cza tag1labeleq1$$
This is assuming that $a neq 0$.
With $2$ constraint equations, assuming they're linearly independent, you can solve each for $1$ variable to eliminate it, resulting in an equation with $2$ variables. You then have $1$ degree of freedom to choose $1$ of those remaining variables, with the other $2$ then being determined. For example, using your provided $2$ equations:
$$ax + by + cz = 0 tag2labeleq2$$
$$alpha x + beta y + gamma z = 0 tag3labeleq3$$
Multiply eqrefeq2 by $alpha$, multiply eqrefeq3 by $a$, and subtract the $2$ resulting equations to get
$$left(alpha b - abetaright)y + left(alpha c - agammaright)z = 0 ; Rightarrow ; y = left(fracagamma - alpha calpha b - abetaright)z tag4labeleq4$$
This is assuming that $alpha b - abeta neq 0$. Thus, for each $z$, you get a $y$ from eqrefeq4 and then an $x$ from eqrefeq1.
For $3$ linear constraint equations, assuming they're all linearly independent, you get just one set of values.
If any of these equations are linearly dependent, this results in an extra degree of freedom for each equation that is dependent.
Based on your understanding of chapter 1, please indicate if this doesn't match what you might expect.
Update: Based on the comment by ancientmathematician about a geometric argument, note that one equation gives a plane, having $2$ independent equations gives the intersection of $2$ planes, i.e., a line, and $3$ independent equations gives the intersection of $3$ planes, i.e., a point. Perhaps these are the "conditions" being referred to. However, based on how the question is specifically worded, I think a better fit would be what is described in ancientmathematician's answer.
$endgroup$
Since I don't have the book available, nor do I recall ever reading it (at least not any recent version of it), I can't be sure what it is getting at as I don't have the context of knowing what was written in Chapter $1$. It should likely help give you an idea.
However, here is what it seems to me. As it's a book about real variables, I doubt the equations are supposed to be diophantine ones, i.e., where the variables can only be integers. Instead, it's to do with the degrees of freedom vs. how many linearly independent constraints you have. With just $1$ equation, you can generally pick any $2$ values and then determine the third, e.g., choose $y$ and $z$ to then get $x$ from
$$x = frac-by-cza tag1labeleq1$$
This is assuming that $a neq 0$.
With $2$ constraint equations, assuming they're linearly independent, you can solve each for $1$ variable to eliminate it, resulting in an equation with $2$ variables. You then have $1$ degree of freedom to choose $1$ of those remaining variables, with the other $2$ then being determined. For example, using your provided $2$ equations:
$$ax + by + cz = 0 tag2labeleq2$$
$$alpha x + beta y + gamma z = 0 tag3labeleq3$$
Multiply eqrefeq2 by $alpha$, multiply eqrefeq3 by $a$, and subtract the $2$ resulting equations to get
$$left(alpha b - abetaright)y + left(alpha c - agammaright)z = 0 ; Rightarrow ; y = left(fracagamma - alpha calpha b - abetaright)z tag4labeleq4$$
This is assuming that $alpha b - abeta neq 0$. Thus, for each $z$, you get a $y$ from eqrefeq4 and then an $x$ from eqrefeq1.
For $3$ linear constraint equations, assuming they're all linearly independent, you get just one set of values.
If any of these equations are linearly dependent, this results in an extra degree of freedom for each equation that is dependent.
Based on your understanding of chapter 1, please indicate if this doesn't match what you might expect.
Update: Based on the comment by ancientmathematician about a geometric argument, note that one equation gives a plane, having $2$ independent equations gives the intersection of $2$ planes, i.e., a line, and $3$ independent equations gives the intersection of $3$ planes, i.e., a point. Perhaps these are the "conditions" being referred to. However, based on how the question is specifically worded, I think a better fit would be what is described in ancientmathematician's answer.
edited Mar 23 at 8:41
answered Mar 23 at 6:09
John OmielanJohn Omielan
4,8962216
4,8962216
1
$begingroup$
the 1st chapter is about rational and irrational numbers, irrationality, surds, linear arithmetic continuum, Dedekind theorem, Weierstrass theorem and limit points.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:31
$begingroup$
@AweKumarJha Thanks for the info. Offhand, I don't see any direct connection between the problem and any of those topics, but linear arithmetic continuum seems like the closest one. Do you think what I wrote fits to at least some extent with what the problem is asking for?
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
Mar 23 at 6:35
1
$begingroup$
in fact what you wrote is the only thing that presently fits to a remarkable extent to the context, for I don't see other possibilities. Anyway, thanks for your support.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
In the 1921 3rd edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 31, and in the 1952 10th edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 32. Incidentally, I see nothing in Chapter I to suggest that this has anything to do with Diophantine equations. Indeed, about the only thing in this chapter that I can find even remotely involving Diophantine equations are some irrationality proofs by contradiction.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Mar 23 at 7:16
1
$begingroup$
I rather suspect that Hardy (and those for whom he wrote the book) would have given a geometric and not algebraic argument. I don't know why the problem is set here in the book, but of course it's the sort of thing needed when one comes to Lagrange multipliers.
$endgroup$
– ancientmathematician
Mar 23 at 7:57
|
show 1 more comment
1
$begingroup$
the 1st chapter is about rational and irrational numbers, irrationality, surds, linear arithmetic continuum, Dedekind theorem, Weierstrass theorem and limit points.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:31
$begingroup$
@AweKumarJha Thanks for the info. Offhand, I don't see any direct connection between the problem and any of those topics, but linear arithmetic continuum seems like the closest one. Do you think what I wrote fits to at least some extent with what the problem is asking for?
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
Mar 23 at 6:35
1
$begingroup$
in fact what you wrote is the only thing that presently fits to a remarkable extent to the context, for I don't see other possibilities. Anyway, thanks for your support.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
In the 1921 3rd edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 31, and in the 1952 10th edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 32. Incidentally, I see nothing in Chapter I to suggest that this has anything to do with Diophantine equations. Indeed, about the only thing in this chapter that I can find even remotely involving Diophantine equations are some irrationality proofs by contradiction.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Mar 23 at 7:16
1
$begingroup$
I rather suspect that Hardy (and those for whom he wrote the book) would have given a geometric and not algebraic argument. I don't know why the problem is set here in the book, but of course it's the sort of thing needed when one comes to Lagrange multipliers.
$endgroup$
– ancientmathematician
Mar 23 at 7:57
1
1
$begingroup$
the 1st chapter is about rational and irrational numbers, irrationality, surds, linear arithmetic continuum, Dedekind theorem, Weierstrass theorem and limit points.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:31
$begingroup$
the 1st chapter is about rational and irrational numbers, irrationality, surds, linear arithmetic continuum, Dedekind theorem, Weierstrass theorem and limit points.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:31
$begingroup$
@AweKumarJha Thanks for the info. Offhand, I don't see any direct connection between the problem and any of those topics, but linear arithmetic continuum seems like the closest one. Do you think what I wrote fits to at least some extent with what the problem is asking for?
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
Mar 23 at 6:35
$begingroup$
@AweKumarJha Thanks for the info. Offhand, I don't see any direct connection between the problem and any of those topics, but linear arithmetic continuum seems like the closest one. Do you think what I wrote fits to at least some extent with what the problem is asking for?
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
Mar 23 at 6:35
1
1
$begingroup$
in fact what you wrote is the only thing that presently fits to a remarkable extent to the context, for I don't see other possibilities. Anyway, thanks for your support.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:41
$begingroup$
in fact what you wrote is the only thing that presently fits to a remarkable extent to the context, for I don't see other possibilities. Anyway, thanks for your support.
$endgroup$
– Awe Kumar Jha
Mar 23 at 6:41
1
1
$begingroup$
In the 1921 3rd edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 31, and in the 1952 10th edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 32. Incidentally, I see nothing in Chapter I to suggest that this has anything to do with Diophantine equations. Indeed, about the only thing in this chapter that I can find even remotely involving Diophantine equations are some irrationality proofs by contradiction.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Mar 23 at 7:16
$begingroup$
In the 1921 3rd edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 31, and in the 1952 10th edition it's the first of the Miscellaneous Examples on Chapter I and is on p. 32. Incidentally, I see nothing in Chapter I to suggest that this has anything to do with Diophantine equations. Indeed, about the only thing in this chapter that I can find even remotely involving Diophantine equations are some irrationality proofs by contradiction.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Mar 23 at 7:16
1
1
$begingroup$
I rather suspect that Hardy (and those for whom he wrote the book) would have given a geometric and not algebraic argument. I don't know why the problem is set here in the book, but of course it's the sort of thing needed when one comes to Lagrange multipliers.
$endgroup$
– ancientmathematician
Mar 23 at 7:57
$begingroup$
I rather suspect that Hardy (and those for whom he wrote the book) would have given a geometric and not algebraic argument. I don't know why the problem is set here in the book, but of course it's the sort of thing needed when one comes to Lagrange multipliers.
$endgroup$
– ancientmathematician
Mar 23 at 7:57
|
show 1 more comment
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3158966%2fa-problem-from-hardys-pure-mathematics-on-real-variables-about-linear-equations%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
$begingroup$
What are $a,b,c,x,y,z$???
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 5:20
2
$begingroup$
But Diophantine equations only involve integers...
$endgroup$
– amsmath
Mar 23 at 6:08
1
$begingroup$
Very poorly written question, so not your fault.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 11:12
1
$begingroup$
@user21820 It was perfectly clear and well written following the conventions used when Hardy wrote it. It's only "poorly written" in the sense that "Shakespeare is poorly written, because he couldn't even spell many of the words correctly according to a 21st-century dictionary".
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Mar 23 at 14:17
1
$begingroup$
@alephzero: Your claims are unjustified.
$endgroup$
– user21820
Mar 23 at 14:57