Normal Subgroups of $SU(n)$ Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Normal subgroups of $U(n)$Are all the unitary irreducible representations of $SU(2)$ have unit determinant?How to show that $pm 1$ is a normal subgroup of $mathbbS^3$ and is the nontrivial normal subgroup?Why is studying maximal subgroups useful?Find all normal subgroups of the followingIntuition behind normal subgroupsHomomorphism with intersection of all Sylow p-subgroups as kernel?what is the smallest non-abelian finite group which has normal, non-abelian subgroups (plural)Counter examples for normal subgroupsExamples of groups with only *non-abelian* normal subgroupsIsomorphism between normal subgroupsSubgroups of semidirect productsImportance of Normal subgroups

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Normal Subgroups of $SU(n)$



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Normal subgroups of $U(n)$Are all the unitary irreducible representations of $SU(2)$ have unit determinant?How to show that $pm 1$ is a normal subgroup of $mathbbS^3$ and is the nontrivial normal subgroup?Why is studying maximal subgroups useful?Find all normal subgroups of the followingIntuition behind normal subgroupsHomomorphism with intersection of all Sylow p-subgroups as kernel?what is the smallest non-abelian finite group which has normal, non-abelian subgroups (plural)Counter examples for normal subgroupsExamples of groups with only *non-abelian* normal subgroupsIsomorphism between normal subgroupsSubgroups of semidirect productsImportance of Normal subgroups










5












$begingroup$


I was wondering if there is any classification for normal subgroups of $SU(n)$? In particular, I think that the answer is no for $n = 2$ by looking at the covering map onto $SO(3)$, but I was curious if there were any results for arbitrary $n$?



I'm actually looking for finite normal subgroups of the unitary group (a lot to ask for, I know).










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    5












    $begingroup$


    I was wondering if there is any classification for normal subgroups of $SU(n)$? In particular, I think that the answer is no for $n = 2$ by looking at the covering map onto $SO(3)$, but I was curious if there were any results for arbitrary $n$?



    I'm actually looking for finite normal subgroups of the unitary group (a lot to ask for, I know).










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      5












      5








      5


      3



      $begingroup$


      I was wondering if there is any classification for normal subgroups of $SU(n)$? In particular, I think that the answer is no for $n = 2$ by looking at the covering map onto $SO(3)$, but I was curious if there were any results for arbitrary $n$?



      I'm actually looking for finite normal subgroups of the unitary group (a lot to ask for, I know).










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I was wondering if there is any classification for normal subgroups of $SU(n)$? In particular, I think that the answer is no for $n = 2$ by looking at the covering map onto $SO(3)$, but I was curious if there were any results for arbitrary $n$?



      I'm actually looking for finite normal subgroups of the unitary group (a lot to ask for, I know).







      group-theory lie-groups lie-algebras






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Mar 22 '15 at 3:29







      MGN

















      asked Mar 22 '15 at 3:20









      MGNMGN

      897921




      897921




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          10












          $begingroup$

          Here are two general facts.



          1. If $G$ is a connected topological group, then any discrete normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ is in fact contained in its center. This is a standard exercise and the proof is straightforward: by hypothesis, $N$ is setwise fixed by conjugation. But since $N$ is discrete, a connected topological group can't act nontrivially on it, and so $N$ is in fact pointwise fixed by conjugation. This already implies that any finite normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.

          2. If $G$ is a connected Lie group and $N$ is a closed normal subgroup, then $N$ is a Lie subgroup, and so its Lie algebra $mathfrakn$ is an ideal of the Lie algebra $mathfrakg$. If $mathfrakg$ is simple (which is the case when $G = SU(n)$), then $mathfrakn = 0$, and so $N$ must in fact be discrete, and then by the previous point we know that $N$ must in fact be central. This implies that any nontrivial closed normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.





          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Thanks! These types of standard results in Lie groups/algebras always seem to answer my questions. Do you have a recommendation for a good textbook to learn Lie groups and Lie algebras side by side? Let's say at an early graduate level.
            $endgroup$
            – MGN
            Mar 22 '15 at 16:02


















          4












          $begingroup$

          Qiaochi's answer deals with closed normal subgroups. However, a priori, there could have been non-closed proper normal subgroups in $SU(n)$ (not contained in its center). One can show that this cannot happen "with bare hands" (this is done for instance in Berger's "Geometry" book in the case of $SO(3)$ merely using elementary geometry), or use the following general theorem:



          Theorem. Suppose that $G$ is a compact Hausdorff topological group, which is topologically simple, i.e. contains no proper closed normal subgroups. Then $G$ is simple as an abstract group.



          See Theorem 9.90 of



          Karl H. Hofmann, Sidney A. Morris, The Structure of Compact Groups. A Primer for the Student – A Handbook for the Expert, de Gruyter Studies in Mathematics, Volume 25, 1998.



          Addendum. There exist Hausdorff topologically simple groups which are not simple as abstract groups, see section 3 in



          George A. Willis, Compact open subgroups in simple totally disconnected groups, Journal of Algebra, Volume 312, Issue 1 (2007) pages 405-417.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$




















            2












            $begingroup$

            I doubt there are any finite normal subgroups besides subgroups contained in the center $lbraceexp(frac2ikpin)mathrmid_Vmid k=1,dots,nrbrace$, as any element $uin SU(n)$ that is not of this kind should have a non discrete conjugacy class. Indeed, its eigenspaces form an orthogonal decomposition of the underlying vector space into at least two subspaces,
            $$V=bigoplus_i=1,dots, r^perp E_lambda_i(u)$$ and by conjugation by an element in $SU(n)$ amounts to rotating the eigenspaces, which can be done in a continuous fashion, and hence the conjugacy classes are nondenumerable.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Good point! In fact, now that I think about it, $SU(n)$ likely has no normal subgroups at all! Other than those in the center of course.
              $endgroup$
              – MGN
              Mar 22 '15 at 5:04











            Your Answer








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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            10












            $begingroup$

            Here are two general facts.



            1. If $G$ is a connected topological group, then any discrete normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ is in fact contained in its center. This is a standard exercise and the proof is straightforward: by hypothesis, $N$ is setwise fixed by conjugation. But since $N$ is discrete, a connected topological group can't act nontrivially on it, and so $N$ is in fact pointwise fixed by conjugation. This already implies that any finite normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.

            2. If $G$ is a connected Lie group and $N$ is a closed normal subgroup, then $N$ is a Lie subgroup, and so its Lie algebra $mathfrakn$ is an ideal of the Lie algebra $mathfrakg$. If $mathfrakg$ is simple (which is the case when $G = SU(n)$), then $mathfrakn = 0$, and so $N$ must in fact be discrete, and then by the previous point we know that $N$ must in fact be central. This implies that any nontrivial closed normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.





            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Thanks! These types of standard results in Lie groups/algebras always seem to answer my questions. Do you have a recommendation for a good textbook to learn Lie groups and Lie algebras side by side? Let's say at an early graduate level.
              $endgroup$
              – MGN
              Mar 22 '15 at 16:02















            10












            $begingroup$

            Here are two general facts.



            1. If $G$ is a connected topological group, then any discrete normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ is in fact contained in its center. This is a standard exercise and the proof is straightforward: by hypothesis, $N$ is setwise fixed by conjugation. But since $N$ is discrete, a connected topological group can't act nontrivially on it, and so $N$ is in fact pointwise fixed by conjugation. This already implies that any finite normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.

            2. If $G$ is a connected Lie group and $N$ is a closed normal subgroup, then $N$ is a Lie subgroup, and so its Lie algebra $mathfrakn$ is an ideal of the Lie algebra $mathfrakg$. If $mathfrakg$ is simple (which is the case when $G = SU(n)$), then $mathfrakn = 0$, and so $N$ must in fact be discrete, and then by the previous point we know that $N$ must in fact be central. This implies that any nontrivial closed normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.





            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Thanks! These types of standard results in Lie groups/algebras always seem to answer my questions. Do you have a recommendation for a good textbook to learn Lie groups and Lie algebras side by side? Let's say at an early graduate level.
              $endgroup$
              – MGN
              Mar 22 '15 at 16:02













            10












            10








            10





            $begingroup$

            Here are two general facts.



            1. If $G$ is a connected topological group, then any discrete normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ is in fact contained in its center. This is a standard exercise and the proof is straightforward: by hypothesis, $N$ is setwise fixed by conjugation. But since $N$ is discrete, a connected topological group can't act nontrivially on it, and so $N$ is in fact pointwise fixed by conjugation. This already implies that any finite normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.

            2. If $G$ is a connected Lie group and $N$ is a closed normal subgroup, then $N$ is a Lie subgroup, and so its Lie algebra $mathfrakn$ is an ideal of the Lie algebra $mathfrakg$. If $mathfrakg$ is simple (which is the case when $G = SU(n)$), then $mathfrakn = 0$, and so $N$ must in fact be discrete, and then by the previous point we know that $N$ must in fact be central. This implies that any nontrivial closed normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.





            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            Here are two general facts.



            1. If $G$ is a connected topological group, then any discrete normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ is in fact contained in its center. This is a standard exercise and the proof is straightforward: by hypothesis, $N$ is setwise fixed by conjugation. But since $N$ is discrete, a connected topological group can't act nontrivially on it, and so $N$ is in fact pointwise fixed by conjugation. This already implies that any finite normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.

            2. If $G$ is a connected Lie group and $N$ is a closed normal subgroup, then $N$ is a Lie subgroup, and so its Lie algebra $mathfrakn$ is an ideal of the Lie algebra $mathfrakg$. If $mathfrakg$ is simple (which is the case when $G = SU(n)$), then $mathfrakn = 0$, and so $N$ must in fact be discrete, and then by the previous point we know that $N$ must in fact be central. This implies that any nontrivial closed normal subgroup of $SU(n)$ is contained in its center.






            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Mar 22 '15 at 8:15









            Qiaochu YuanQiaochu Yuan

            282k32597945




            282k32597945







            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Thanks! These types of standard results in Lie groups/algebras always seem to answer my questions. Do you have a recommendation for a good textbook to learn Lie groups and Lie algebras side by side? Let's say at an early graduate level.
              $endgroup$
              – MGN
              Mar 22 '15 at 16:02












            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Thanks! These types of standard results in Lie groups/algebras always seem to answer my questions. Do you have a recommendation for a good textbook to learn Lie groups and Lie algebras side by side? Let's say at an early graduate level.
              $endgroup$
              – MGN
              Mar 22 '15 at 16:02







            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            Thanks! These types of standard results in Lie groups/algebras always seem to answer my questions. Do you have a recommendation for a good textbook to learn Lie groups and Lie algebras side by side? Let's say at an early graduate level.
            $endgroup$
            – MGN
            Mar 22 '15 at 16:02




            $begingroup$
            Thanks! These types of standard results in Lie groups/algebras always seem to answer my questions. Do you have a recommendation for a good textbook to learn Lie groups and Lie algebras side by side? Let's say at an early graduate level.
            $endgroup$
            – MGN
            Mar 22 '15 at 16:02











            4












            $begingroup$

            Qiaochi's answer deals with closed normal subgroups. However, a priori, there could have been non-closed proper normal subgroups in $SU(n)$ (not contained in its center). One can show that this cannot happen "with bare hands" (this is done for instance in Berger's "Geometry" book in the case of $SO(3)$ merely using elementary geometry), or use the following general theorem:



            Theorem. Suppose that $G$ is a compact Hausdorff topological group, which is topologically simple, i.e. contains no proper closed normal subgroups. Then $G$ is simple as an abstract group.



            See Theorem 9.90 of



            Karl H. Hofmann, Sidney A. Morris, The Structure of Compact Groups. A Primer for the Student – A Handbook for the Expert, de Gruyter Studies in Mathematics, Volume 25, 1998.



            Addendum. There exist Hausdorff topologically simple groups which are not simple as abstract groups, see section 3 in



            George A. Willis, Compact open subgroups in simple totally disconnected groups, Journal of Algebra, Volume 312, Issue 1 (2007) pages 405-417.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$

















              4












              $begingroup$

              Qiaochi's answer deals with closed normal subgroups. However, a priori, there could have been non-closed proper normal subgroups in $SU(n)$ (not contained in its center). One can show that this cannot happen "with bare hands" (this is done for instance in Berger's "Geometry" book in the case of $SO(3)$ merely using elementary geometry), or use the following general theorem:



              Theorem. Suppose that $G$ is a compact Hausdorff topological group, which is topologically simple, i.e. contains no proper closed normal subgroups. Then $G$ is simple as an abstract group.



              See Theorem 9.90 of



              Karl H. Hofmann, Sidney A. Morris, The Structure of Compact Groups. A Primer for the Student – A Handbook for the Expert, de Gruyter Studies in Mathematics, Volume 25, 1998.



              Addendum. There exist Hausdorff topologically simple groups which are not simple as abstract groups, see section 3 in



              George A. Willis, Compact open subgroups in simple totally disconnected groups, Journal of Algebra, Volume 312, Issue 1 (2007) pages 405-417.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$















                4












                4








                4





                $begingroup$

                Qiaochi's answer deals with closed normal subgroups. However, a priori, there could have been non-closed proper normal subgroups in $SU(n)$ (not contained in its center). One can show that this cannot happen "with bare hands" (this is done for instance in Berger's "Geometry" book in the case of $SO(3)$ merely using elementary geometry), or use the following general theorem:



                Theorem. Suppose that $G$ is a compact Hausdorff topological group, which is topologically simple, i.e. contains no proper closed normal subgroups. Then $G$ is simple as an abstract group.



                See Theorem 9.90 of



                Karl H. Hofmann, Sidney A. Morris, The Structure of Compact Groups. A Primer for the Student – A Handbook for the Expert, de Gruyter Studies in Mathematics, Volume 25, 1998.



                Addendum. There exist Hausdorff topologically simple groups which are not simple as abstract groups, see section 3 in



                George A. Willis, Compact open subgroups in simple totally disconnected groups, Journal of Algebra, Volume 312, Issue 1 (2007) pages 405-417.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$



                Qiaochi's answer deals with closed normal subgroups. However, a priori, there could have been non-closed proper normal subgroups in $SU(n)$ (not contained in its center). One can show that this cannot happen "with bare hands" (this is done for instance in Berger's "Geometry" book in the case of $SO(3)$ merely using elementary geometry), or use the following general theorem:



                Theorem. Suppose that $G$ is a compact Hausdorff topological group, which is topologically simple, i.e. contains no proper closed normal subgroups. Then $G$ is simple as an abstract group.



                See Theorem 9.90 of



                Karl H. Hofmann, Sidney A. Morris, The Structure of Compact Groups. A Primer for the Student – A Handbook for the Expert, de Gruyter Studies in Mathematics, Volume 25, 1998.



                Addendum. There exist Hausdorff topologically simple groups which are not simple as abstract groups, see section 3 in



                George A. Willis, Compact open subgroups in simple totally disconnected groups, Journal of Algebra, Volume 312, Issue 1 (2007) pages 405-417.







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited Mar 25 '17 at 1:08

























                answered Mar 24 '17 at 20:24









                Moishe KohanMoishe Kohan

                48.9k344111




                48.9k344111





















                    2












                    $begingroup$

                    I doubt there are any finite normal subgroups besides subgroups contained in the center $lbraceexp(frac2ikpin)mathrmid_Vmid k=1,dots,nrbrace$, as any element $uin SU(n)$ that is not of this kind should have a non discrete conjugacy class. Indeed, its eigenspaces form an orthogonal decomposition of the underlying vector space into at least two subspaces,
                    $$V=bigoplus_i=1,dots, r^perp E_lambda_i(u)$$ and by conjugation by an element in $SU(n)$ amounts to rotating the eigenspaces, which can be done in a continuous fashion, and hence the conjugacy classes are nondenumerable.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$












                    • $begingroup$
                      Good point! In fact, now that I think about it, $SU(n)$ likely has no normal subgroups at all! Other than those in the center of course.
                      $endgroup$
                      – MGN
                      Mar 22 '15 at 5:04















                    2












                    $begingroup$

                    I doubt there are any finite normal subgroups besides subgroups contained in the center $lbraceexp(frac2ikpin)mathrmid_Vmid k=1,dots,nrbrace$, as any element $uin SU(n)$ that is not of this kind should have a non discrete conjugacy class. Indeed, its eigenspaces form an orthogonal decomposition of the underlying vector space into at least two subspaces,
                    $$V=bigoplus_i=1,dots, r^perp E_lambda_i(u)$$ and by conjugation by an element in $SU(n)$ amounts to rotating the eigenspaces, which can be done in a continuous fashion, and hence the conjugacy classes are nondenumerable.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$












                    • $begingroup$
                      Good point! In fact, now that I think about it, $SU(n)$ likely has no normal subgroups at all! Other than those in the center of course.
                      $endgroup$
                      – MGN
                      Mar 22 '15 at 5:04













                    2












                    2








                    2





                    $begingroup$

                    I doubt there are any finite normal subgroups besides subgroups contained in the center $lbraceexp(frac2ikpin)mathrmid_Vmid k=1,dots,nrbrace$, as any element $uin SU(n)$ that is not of this kind should have a non discrete conjugacy class. Indeed, its eigenspaces form an orthogonal decomposition of the underlying vector space into at least two subspaces,
                    $$V=bigoplus_i=1,dots, r^perp E_lambda_i(u)$$ and by conjugation by an element in $SU(n)$ amounts to rotating the eigenspaces, which can be done in a continuous fashion, and hence the conjugacy classes are nondenumerable.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    I doubt there are any finite normal subgroups besides subgroups contained in the center $lbraceexp(frac2ikpin)mathrmid_Vmid k=1,dots,nrbrace$, as any element $uin SU(n)$ that is not of this kind should have a non discrete conjugacy class. Indeed, its eigenspaces form an orthogonal decomposition of the underlying vector space into at least two subspaces,
                    $$V=bigoplus_i=1,dots, r^perp E_lambda_i(u)$$ and by conjugation by an element in $SU(n)$ amounts to rotating the eigenspaces, which can be done in a continuous fashion, and hence the conjugacy classes are nondenumerable.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Mar 22 '15 at 3:33









                    Olivier BégassatOlivier Bégassat

                    13.5k12373




                    13.5k12373











                    • $begingroup$
                      Good point! In fact, now that I think about it, $SU(n)$ likely has no normal subgroups at all! Other than those in the center of course.
                      $endgroup$
                      – MGN
                      Mar 22 '15 at 5:04
















                    • $begingroup$
                      Good point! In fact, now that I think about it, $SU(n)$ likely has no normal subgroups at all! Other than those in the center of course.
                      $endgroup$
                      – MGN
                      Mar 22 '15 at 5:04















                    $begingroup$
                    Good point! In fact, now that I think about it, $SU(n)$ likely has no normal subgroups at all! Other than those in the center of course.
                    $endgroup$
                    – MGN
                    Mar 22 '15 at 5:04




                    $begingroup$
                    Good point! In fact, now that I think about it, $SU(n)$ likely has no normal subgroups at all! Other than those in the center of course.
                    $endgroup$
                    – MGN
                    Mar 22 '15 at 5:04

















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