Can two equations when multiplied sometimes not give graph of both the equations? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Is this Batman equation for real?Power functions and parabola issueAn equation with graph as a line *segment*: $ sqrt x^2 + (y+12)^2 = 13 - sqrt(x-5)^2 + y^2 $Obtaining constant using the straight line gradient of two equationsTriple Simultaneous Equations not resolving the Equation for a Quadratic FunctionWhy graph of $sin(x+45^circ$) shifts to left instead of rightCan the graph of $tan^-1left(fracsin xxright)$ be expressed as $Ce^-kxcos(omega x + phi)$?How to transform a rational function into a straight line (or viceversa)When can we apply matrix operations to both sides of the equation to solve linear systems?The graph of $sqrt(x+2)^2+y^2 + sqrtx^2 + (y-2)^2 = 6$ is a(n)…Finding the intersection of two 2d vector equations

What causes the vertical darker bands in my photo?

When is phishing education going too far?

Can inflation occur in a positive-sum game currency system such as the Stack Exchange reputation system?

Is there any avatar supposed to be born between the death of Krishna and the birth of Kalki?

iPhone Wallpaper?

If a contract sometimes uses the wrong name, is it still valid?

Sorting numerically

How to bypass password on Windows XP account?

Is there a documented rationale why the House Ways and Means chairman can demand tax info?

Disable hyphenation for an entire paragraph

How to recreate this effect in Photoshop?

Is there a concise way to say "all of the X, one of each"?

The logistics of corpse disposal

Is a manifold-with-boundary with given interior and non-empty boundary essentially unique?

How can I make names more distinctive without making them longer?

Why did the IBM 650 use bi-quinary?

Is 1 ppb equal to 1 μg/kg?

Why does Python start at index -1 when indexing a list from the end?

Super Attribute Position on Product Page Magento 1

How much radiation do nuclear physics experiments expose researchers to nowadays?

Does surprise arrest existing movement?

Letter Boxed validator

Antler Helmet: Can it work?

What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?



Can two equations when multiplied sometimes not give graph of both the equations?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Is this Batman equation for real?Power functions and parabola issueAn equation with graph as a line *segment*: $ sqrt x^2 + (y+12)^2 = 13 - sqrt(x-5)^2 + y^2 $Obtaining constant using the straight line gradient of two equationsTriple Simultaneous Equations not resolving the Equation for a Quadratic FunctionWhy graph of $sin(x+45^circ$) shifts to left instead of rightCan the graph of $tan^-1left(fracsin xxright)$ be expressed as $Ce^-kxcos(omega x + phi)$?How to transform a rational function into a straight line (or viceversa)When can we apply matrix operations to both sides of the equation to solve linear systems?The graph of $sqrt(x+2)^2+y^2 + sqrtx^2 + (y-2)^2 = 6$ is a(n)…Finding the intersection of two 2d vector equations










0












$begingroup$


I wanted graph of this equation:
$$left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right) left(x-yright)=0$$



I want a x=y line as well. So I kept (x-y) on the function side since (x-y)=0 should ultimately give x=y as graph along with graph of other functions. But I don't get the x=y line as a whole. It's not complete and I don't understand why.



I think there's something to do with which other equations I have used. But that doesn't seem to click. Isn't it mathematically correct to multiply two equations with 0 on right sides and get both equations' graph?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    0












    $begingroup$


    I wanted graph of this equation:
    $$left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right) left(x-yright)=0$$



    I want a x=y line as well. So I kept (x-y) on the function side since (x-y)=0 should ultimately give x=y as graph along with graph of other functions. But I don't get the x=y line as a whole. It's not complete and I don't understand why.



    I think there's something to do with which other equations I have used. But that doesn't seem to click. Isn't it mathematically correct to multiply two equations with 0 on right sides and get both equations' graph?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      0












      0








      0





      $begingroup$


      I wanted graph of this equation:
      $$left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right) left(x-yright)=0$$



      I want a x=y line as well. So I kept (x-y) on the function side since (x-y)=0 should ultimately give x=y as graph along with graph of other functions. But I don't get the x=y line as a whole. It's not complete and I don't understand why.



      I think there's something to do with which other equations I have used. But that doesn't seem to click. Isn't it mathematically correct to multiply two equations with 0 on right sides and get both equations' graph?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I wanted graph of this equation:
      $$left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right) left(x-yright)=0$$



      I want a x=y line as well. So I kept (x-y) on the function side since (x-y)=0 should ultimately give x=y as graph along with graph of other functions. But I don't get the x=y line as a whole. It's not complete and I don't understand why.



      I think there's something to do with which other equations I have used. But that doesn't seem to click. Isn't it mathematically correct to multiply two equations with 0 on right sides and get both equations' graph?







      linear-algebra functions graphing-functions






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Mar 26 at 10:30









      David Mitra

      63.8k6102165




      63.8k6102165










      asked Mar 26 at 10:30









      user68153user68153

      113




      113




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1












          $begingroup$

          You're completely right about "the other equations" being the source of the problem.



          Let me start with something simple. What is the value of
          $$
          x cdot 0 ?
          $$



          It's very tempting to say, "It's $0$, of course, because anything times zero is zero!" But what if $x$ is, for instance, a cheese omelet? Then...well...then multiplication by zero isn't even defined, and you'd have to say "$x cdot 0$ is undefined" rather than "it's zero." You might say that "cheese omelet" isn't really math, but what if we replace $x$ like this:
          $$
          (1/0) cdot 0
          $$

          Then our first factor is undefined, and multiplication by undefined things is undefined, so once again the product is "undefined" rather than zero.



          Now let's look at a more complicated example. I'm going to stick with the real numbers -- no complex numbers allowed! -- and I want to look at
          $$
          sqrtx cdot 0
          $$

          You might say "Well, that's definitely zero!", but what if $x = -3$? Then the square root is undefined, and so the product is undefined as well.




          Here's a theorem that your question hints at:




          Theorem: Suppose $f, g : Bbb R^2 to Bbb R$, and $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
          set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
          equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $F cup G$.




          In your case, you've got $g(x, y) = x - y$, and the solutions for $x-y = 0$ form a line in the plane; that's the set $G$ in the theorem. You've multiplied it by some complicated mess that I'll temporarily call $f(x, y)$, and looked for solutions to
          $$
          tag1
          f(x, y) cdot g(x, y) = 0
          $$

          (perhaps using Desmos or some other graphing tool), and you're wondering why the solution set of this doesn't include all of $G$.



          The answer is "because $f$ is not defined on all of $Bbb R^2$ --- for certain $(x,y)$ pairs, $f(x, y)$ is undefined, and those pairs cannot be part of the solution to equation (1)."



          For instance, let's look at the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$. Clearly this point satisfies $g(a, b) = a - b = (-1) - (-1) = 0$. But what is $f(a, b)$? Well, your formula for $f$ is
          $$
          f(x, y) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)
          $$

          and plugging in $-1$ for each of $x$ and $y$ gives, deep in the middle, this:
          $$
          ldots left(fracleft((-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5+5right)5right)^2 ldots
          $$

          and the middle square root in that simplifies to
          beginalign
          &(-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5\
          &= -sqrtfracleft1-5\
          &= -sqrtfrac-4\
          &= -sqrtfrac4-4\
          &= -sqrt-1
          endalign

          which is undefined. So because $f(a, b)$ is undefined, so is $f(a, b) cdot g(a, b)$, and hence this product cannot be zero...so the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$ is not part of the plot of the solutions to equation (1).



          The modified theorem that gets to what's going on here is this:




          Theorem: Suppose $D, E subset Bbb R^2$, $f:D to Bbb R$, $g:E to Bbb R$, $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
          set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
          equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $(Fcap E) cup (G cap D)$.




          which says that only those solutions of $g = 0$ (i.e., $G$) that lie in the domain of $f$ (i.e., $D$) get included in the result, and only solutions of $f = 0$ that lie in the domain of $E$ get included in the result.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thank you! I understand. But don't they do the same thing in viral batman logo equation? With all the complex number mess and things ? How is it fine there then?
            $endgroup$
            – user68153
            Mar 26 at 15:23










          • $begingroup$
            You might want to look at copper.hat's answer to this question (math.stackexchange.com/questions/54506/…) about the Batman equation. As an alternative, you can consider that your equation (and/or the batman equation) is defined by a product of functions $f,g: Bbb C^2 to Bbb R$ (with some slight problems where denominators are zero), and the graph you're hoping to get is the intersection of the solutions of $fg = 0$ (in $Bbb C^2$) with the real plane $Bbb R^2 subset Bbb C^2$. It's hardly surprising that Desmos, etc., cannot guess this. :)
            $endgroup$
            – John Hughes
            Mar 26 at 17:42










          • $begingroup$
            So even the batman equation doesn't work in decent plotters? Whoa! All the excitement!
            $endgroup$
            – user68153
            Mar 27 at 2:32


















          0












          $begingroup$

          Notice that if $f(x) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)$



          then $f(x)$ is not defined for $x=-5$ because then $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is dividing by $0$. And if $x > -5$ then $-x-5 < 0$ so $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is the square root of a negative number.



          So $f(x)$ simply doesn't work and does not exist if $x ge -5$.



          And if $f(x)$ does not exist for $x ge -5$ then $f(x)cdot (x-y)$ can't exist for $x ge -5$ either.



          It doesn't matter that multiplying by $f(x)(x-y) = 0$ and $0$ exists always. If $f(x)$ doesn't exist then neither does $f(x)times something else$. So we have $f(x)(x-y)= 0$ AND $x < -5$. We can't magic things into existence just because they "cancel out".






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "69"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );













            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3163004%2fcan-two-equations-when-multiplied-sometimes-not-give-graph-of-both-the-equations%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            1












            $begingroup$

            You're completely right about "the other equations" being the source of the problem.



            Let me start with something simple. What is the value of
            $$
            x cdot 0 ?
            $$



            It's very tempting to say, "It's $0$, of course, because anything times zero is zero!" But what if $x$ is, for instance, a cheese omelet? Then...well...then multiplication by zero isn't even defined, and you'd have to say "$x cdot 0$ is undefined" rather than "it's zero." You might say that "cheese omelet" isn't really math, but what if we replace $x$ like this:
            $$
            (1/0) cdot 0
            $$

            Then our first factor is undefined, and multiplication by undefined things is undefined, so once again the product is "undefined" rather than zero.



            Now let's look at a more complicated example. I'm going to stick with the real numbers -- no complex numbers allowed! -- and I want to look at
            $$
            sqrtx cdot 0
            $$

            You might say "Well, that's definitely zero!", but what if $x = -3$? Then the square root is undefined, and so the product is undefined as well.




            Here's a theorem that your question hints at:




            Theorem: Suppose $f, g : Bbb R^2 to Bbb R$, and $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
            set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
            equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $F cup G$.




            In your case, you've got $g(x, y) = x - y$, and the solutions for $x-y = 0$ form a line in the plane; that's the set $G$ in the theorem. You've multiplied it by some complicated mess that I'll temporarily call $f(x, y)$, and looked for solutions to
            $$
            tag1
            f(x, y) cdot g(x, y) = 0
            $$

            (perhaps using Desmos or some other graphing tool), and you're wondering why the solution set of this doesn't include all of $G$.



            The answer is "because $f$ is not defined on all of $Bbb R^2$ --- for certain $(x,y)$ pairs, $f(x, y)$ is undefined, and those pairs cannot be part of the solution to equation (1)."



            For instance, let's look at the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$. Clearly this point satisfies $g(a, b) = a - b = (-1) - (-1) = 0$. But what is $f(a, b)$? Well, your formula for $f$ is
            $$
            f(x, y) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)
            $$

            and plugging in $-1$ for each of $x$ and $y$ gives, deep in the middle, this:
            $$
            ldots left(fracleft((-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5+5right)5right)^2 ldots
            $$

            and the middle square root in that simplifies to
            beginalign
            &(-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5\
            &= -sqrtfracleft1-5\
            &= -sqrtfrac-4\
            &= -sqrtfrac4-4\
            &= -sqrt-1
            endalign

            which is undefined. So because $f(a, b)$ is undefined, so is $f(a, b) cdot g(a, b)$, and hence this product cannot be zero...so the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$ is not part of the plot of the solutions to equation (1).



            The modified theorem that gets to what's going on here is this:




            Theorem: Suppose $D, E subset Bbb R^2$, $f:D to Bbb R$, $g:E to Bbb R$, $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
            set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
            equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $(Fcap E) cup (G cap D)$.




            which says that only those solutions of $g = 0$ (i.e., $G$) that lie in the domain of $f$ (i.e., $D$) get included in the result, and only solutions of $f = 0$ that lie in the domain of $E$ get included in the result.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Thank you! I understand. But don't they do the same thing in viral batman logo equation? With all the complex number mess and things ? How is it fine there then?
              $endgroup$
              – user68153
              Mar 26 at 15:23










            • $begingroup$
              You might want to look at copper.hat's answer to this question (math.stackexchange.com/questions/54506/…) about the Batman equation. As an alternative, you can consider that your equation (and/or the batman equation) is defined by a product of functions $f,g: Bbb C^2 to Bbb R$ (with some slight problems where denominators are zero), and the graph you're hoping to get is the intersection of the solutions of $fg = 0$ (in $Bbb C^2$) with the real plane $Bbb R^2 subset Bbb C^2$. It's hardly surprising that Desmos, etc., cannot guess this. :)
              $endgroup$
              – John Hughes
              Mar 26 at 17:42










            • $begingroup$
              So even the batman equation doesn't work in decent plotters? Whoa! All the excitement!
              $endgroup$
              – user68153
              Mar 27 at 2:32















            1












            $begingroup$

            You're completely right about "the other equations" being the source of the problem.



            Let me start with something simple. What is the value of
            $$
            x cdot 0 ?
            $$



            It's very tempting to say, "It's $0$, of course, because anything times zero is zero!" But what if $x$ is, for instance, a cheese omelet? Then...well...then multiplication by zero isn't even defined, and you'd have to say "$x cdot 0$ is undefined" rather than "it's zero." You might say that "cheese omelet" isn't really math, but what if we replace $x$ like this:
            $$
            (1/0) cdot 0
            $$

            Then our first factor is undefined, and multiplication by undefined things is undefined, so once again the product is "undefined" rather than zero.



            Now let's look at a more complicated example. I'm going to stick with the real numbers -- no complex numbers allowed! -- and I want to look at
            $$
            sqrtx cdot 0
            $$

            You might say "Well, that's definitely zero!", but what if $x = -3$? Then the square root is undefined, and so the product is undefined as well.




            Here's a theorem that your question hints at:




            Theorem: Suppose $f, g : Bbb R^2 to Bbb R$, and $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
            set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
            equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $F cup G$.




            In your case, you've got $g(x, y) = x - y$, and the solutions for $x-y = 0$ form a line in the plane; that's the set $G$ in the theorem. You've multiplied it by some complicated mess that I'll temporarily call $f(x, y)$, and looked for solutions to
            $$
            tag1
            f(x, y) cdot g(x, y) = 0
            $$

            (perhaps using Desmos or some other graphing tool), and you're wondering why the solution set of this doesn't include all of $G$.



            The answer is "because $f$ is not defined on all of $Bbb R^2$ --- for certain $(x,y)$ pairs, $f(x, y)$ is undefined, and those pairs cannot be part of the solution to equation (1)."



            For instance, let's look at the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$. Clearly this point satisfies $g(a, b) = a - b = (-1) - (-1) = 0$. But what is $f(a, b)$? Well, your formula for $f$ is
            $$
            f(x, y) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)
            $$

            and plugging in $-1$ for each of $x$ and $y$ gives, deep in the middle, this:
            $$
            ldots left(fracleft((-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5+5right)5right)^2 ldots
            $$

            and the middle square root in that simplifies to
            beginalign
            &(-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5\
            &= -sqrtfracleft1-5\
            &= -sqrtfrac-4\
            &= -sqrtfrac4-4\
            &= -sqrt-1
            endalign

            which is undefined. So because $f(a, b)$ is undefined, so is $f(a, b) cdot g(a, b)$, and hence this product cannot be zero...so the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$ is not part of the plot of the solutions to equation (1).



            The modified theorem that gets to what's going on here is this:




            Theorem: Suppose $D, E subset Bbb R^2$, $f:D to Bbb R$, $g:E to Bbb R$, $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
            set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
            equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $(Fcap E) cup (G cap D)$.




            which says that only those solutions of $g = 0$ (i.e., $G$) that lie in the domain of $f$ (i.e., $D$) get included in the result, and only solutions of $f = 0$ that lie in the domain of $E$ get included in the result.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Thank you! I understand. But don't they do the same thing in viral batman logo equation? With all the complex number mess and things ? How is it fine there then?
              $endgroup$
              – user68153
              Mar 26 at 15:23










            • $begingroup$
              You might want to look at copper.hat's answer to this question (math.stackexchange.com/questions/54506/…) about the Batman equation. As an alternative, you can consider that your equation (and/or the batman equation) is defined by a product of functions $f,g: Bbb C^2 to Bbb R$ (with some slight problems where denominators are zero), and the graph you're hoping to get is the intersection of the solutions of $fg = 0$ (in $Bbb C^2$) with the real plane $Bbb R^2 subset Bbb C^2$. It's hardly surprising that Desmos, etc., cannot guess this. :)
              $endgroup$
              – John Hughes
              Mar 26 at 17:42










            • $begingroup$
              So even the batman equation doesn't work in decent plotters? Whoa! All the excitement!
              $endgroup$
              – user68153
              Mar 27 at 2:32













            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            You're completely right about "the other equations" being the source of the problem.



            Let me start with something simple. What is the value of
            $$
            x cdot 0 ?
            $$



            It's very tempting to say, "It's $0$, of course, because anything times zero is zero!" But what if $x$ is, for instance, a cheese omelet? Then...well...then multiplication by zero isn't even defined, and you'd have to say "$x cdot 0$ is undefined" rather than "it's zero." You might say that "cheese omelet" isn't really math, but what if we replace $x$ like this:
            $$
            (1/0) cdot 0
            $$

            Then our first factor is undefined, and multiplication by undefined things is undefined, so once again the product is "undefined" rather than zero.



            Now let's look at a more complicated example. I'm going to stick with the real numbers -- no complex numbers allowed! -- and I want to look at
            $$
            sqrtx cdot 0
            $$

            You might say "Well, that's definitely zero!", but what if $x = -3$? Then the square root is undefined, and so the product is undefined as well.




            Here's a theorem that your question hints at:




            Theorem: Suppose $f, g : Bbb R^2 to Bbb R$, and $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
            set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
            equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $F cup G$.




            In your case, you've got $g(x, y) = x - y$, and the solutions for $x-y = 0$ form a line in the plane; that's the set $G$ in the theorem. You've multiplied it by some complicated mess that I'll temporarily call $f(x, y)$, and looked for solutions to
            $$
            tag1
            f(x, y) cdot g(x, y) = 0
            $$

            (perhaps using Desmos or some other graphing tool), and you're wondering why the solution set of this doesn't include all of $G$.



            The answer is "because $f$ is not defined on all of $Bbb R^2$ --- for certain $(x,y)$ pairs, $f(x, y)$ is undefined, and those pairs cannot be part of the solution to equation (1)."



            For instance, let's look at the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$. Clearly this point satisfies $g(a, b) = a - b = (-1) - (-1) = 0$. But what is $f(a, b)$? Well, your formula for $f$ is
            $$
            f(x, y) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)
            $$

            and plugging in $-1$ for each of $x$ and $y$ gives, deep in the middle, this:
            $$
            ldots left(fracleft((-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5+5right)5right)^2 ldots
            $$

            and the middle square root in that simplifies to
            beginalign
            &(-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5\
            &= -sqrtfracleft1-5\
            &= -sqrtfrac-4\
            &= -sqrtfrac4-4\
            &= -sqrt-1
            endalign

            which is undefined. So because $f(a, b)$ is undefined, so is $f(a, b) cdot g(a, b)$, and hence this product cannot be zero...so the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$ is not part of the plot of the solutions to equation (1).



            The modified theorem that gets to what's going on here is this:




            Theorem: Suppose $D, E subset Bbb R^2$, $f:D to Bbb R$, $g:E to Bbb R$, $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
            set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
            equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $(Fcap E) cup (G cap D)$.




            which says that only those solutions of $g = 0$ (i.e., $G$) that lie in the domain of $f$ (i.e., $D$) get included in the result, and only solutions of $f = 0$ that lie in the domain of $E$ get included in the result.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            You're completely right about "the other equations" being the source of the problem.



            Let me start with something simple. What is the value of
            $$
            x cdot 0 ?
            $$



            It's very tempting to say, "It's $0$, of course, because anything times zero is zero!" But what if $x$ is, for instance, a cheese omelet? Then...well...then multiplication by zero isn't even defined, and you'd have to say "$x cdot 0$ is undefined" rather than "it's zero." You might say that "cheese omelet" isn't really math, but what if we replace $x$ like this:
            $$
            (1/0) cdot 0
            $$

            Then our first factor is undefined, and multiplication by undefined things is undefined, so once again the product is "undefined" rather than zero.



            Now let's look at a more complicated example. I'm going to stick with the real numbers -- no complex numbers allowed! -- and I want to look at
            $$
            sqrtx cdot 0
            $$

            You might say "Well, that's definitely zero!", but what if $x = -3$? Then the square root is undefined, and so the product is undefined as well.




            Here's a theorem that your question hints at:




            Theorem: Suppose $f, g : Bbb R^2 to Bbb R$, and $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
            set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
            equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $F cup G$.




            In your case, you've got $g(x, y) = x - y$, and the solutions for $x-y = 0$ form a line in the plane; that's the set $G$ in the theorem. You've multiplied it by some complicated mess that I'll temporarily call $f(x, y)$, and looked for solutions to
            $$
            tag1
            f(x, y) cdot g(x, y) = 0
            $$

            (perhaps using Desmos or some other graphing tool), and you're wondering why the solution set of this doesn't include all of $G$.



            The answer is "because $f$ is not defined on all of $Bbb R^2$ --- for certain $(x,y)$ pairs, $f(x, y)$ is undefined, and those pairs cannot be part of the solution to equation (1)."



            For instance, let's look at the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$. Clearly this point satisfies $g(a, b) = a - b = (-1) - (-1) = 0$. But what is $f(a, b)$? Well, your formula for $f$ is
            $$
            f(x, y) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)
            $$

            and plugging in $-1$ for each of $x$ and $y$ gives, deep in the middle, this:
            $$
            ldots left(fracleft((-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5+5right)5right)^2 ldots
            $$

            and the middle square root in that simplifies to
            beginalign
            &(-1)sqrtfracleft-(-1)-5\
            &= -sqrtfracleft1-5\
            &= -sqrtfrac-4\
            &= -sqrtfrac4-4\
            &= -sqrt-1
            endalign

            which is undefined. So because $f(a, b)$ is undefined, so is $f(a, b) cdot g(a, b)$, and hence this product cannot be zero...so the point $(a, b) = (-1, -1)$ is not part of the plot of the solutions to equation (1).



            The modified theorem that gets to what's going on here is this:




            Theorem: Suppose $D, E subset Bbb R^2$, $f:D to Bbb R$, $g:E to Bbb R$, $G$ is the solution set of the equation $g(x, y) = 0$, and $F$ is the solution
            set of the equation $f(x, y) = 0$. Then the solution set of the
            equation $$ f(x,y) g(x, y) = 0 $$ is exactly $(Fcap E) cup (G cap D)$.




            which says that only those solutions of $g = 0$ (i.e., $G$) that lie in the domain of $f$ (i.e., $D$) get included in the result, and only solutions of $f = 0$ that lie in the domain of $E$ get included in the result.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Mar 26 at 22:16

























            answered Mar 26 at 14:43









            John HughesJohn Hughes

            65.5k24293




            65.5k24293











            • $begingroup$
              Thank you! I understand. But don't they do the same thing in viral batman logo equation? With all the complex number mess and things ? How is it fine there then?
              $endgroup$
              – user68153
              Mar 26 at 15:23










            • $begingroup$
              You might want to look at copper.hat's answer to this question (math.stackexchange.com/questions/54506/…) about the Batman equation. As an alternative, you can consider that your equation (and/or the batman equation) is defined by a product of functions $f,g: Bbb C^2 to Bbb R$ (with some slight problems where denominators are zero), and the graph you're hoping to get is the intersection of the solutions of $fg = 0$ (in $Bbb C^2$) with the real plane $Bbb R^2 subset Bbb C^2$. It's hardly surprising that Desmos, etc., cannot guess this. :)
              $endgroup$
              – John Hughes
              Mar 26 at 17:42










            • $begingroup$
              So even the batman equation doesn't work in decent plotters? Whoa! All the excitement!
              $endgroup$
              – user68153
              Mar 27 at 2:32
















            • $begingroup$
              Thank you! I understand. But don't they do the same thing in viral batman logo equation? With all the complex number mess and things ? How is it fine there then?
              $endgroup$
              – user68153
              Mar 26 at 15:23










            • $begingroup$
              You might want to look at copper.hat's answer to this question (math.stackexchange.com/questions/54506/…) about the Batman equation. As an alternative, you can consider that your equation (and/or the batman equation) is defined by a product of functions $f,g: Bbb C^2 to Bbb R$ (with some slight problems where denominators are zero), and the graph you're hoping to get is the intersection of the solutions of $fg = 0$ (in $Bbb C^2$) with the real plane $Bbb R^2 subset Bbb C^2$. It's hardly surprising that Desmos, etc., cannot guess this. :)
              $endgroup$
              – John Hughes
              Mar 26 at 17:42










            • $begingroup$
              So even the batman equation doesn't work in decent plotters? Whoa! All the excitement!
              $endgroup$
              – user68153
              Mar 27 at 2:32















            $begingroup$
            Thank you! I understand. But don't they do the same thing in viral batman logo equation? With all the complex number mess and things ? How is it fine there then?
            $endgroup$
            – user68153
            Mar 26 at 15:23




            $begingroup$
            Thank you! I understand. But don't they do the same thing in viral batman logo equation? With all the complex number mess and things ? How is it fine there then?
            $endgroup$
            – user68153
            Mar 26 at 15:23












            $begingroup$
            You might want to look at copper.hat's answer to this question (math.stackexchange.com/questions/54506/…) about the Batman equation. As an alternative, you can consider that your equation (and/or the batman equation) is defined by a product of functions $f,g: Bbb C^2 to Bbb R$ (with some slight problems where denominators are zero), and the graph you're hoping to get is the intersection of the solutions of $fg = 0$ (in $Bbb C^2$) with the real plane $Bbb R^2 subset Bbb C^2$. It's hardly surprising that Desmos, etc., cannot guess this. :)
            $endgroup$
            – John Hughes
            Mar 26 at 17:42




            $begingroup$
            You might want to look at copper.hat's answer to this question (math.stackexchange.com/questions/54506/…) about the Batman equation. As an alternative, you can consider that your equation (and/or the batman equation) is defined by a product of functions $f,g: Bbb C^2 to Bbb R$ (with some slight problems where denominators are zero), and the graph you're hoping to get is the intersection of the solutions of $fg = 0$ (in $Bbb C^2$) with the real plane $Bbb R^2 subset Bbb C^2$. It's hardly surprising that Desmos, etc., cannot guess this. :)
            $endgroup$
            – John Hughes
            Mar 26 at 17:42












            $begingroup$
            So even the batman equation doesn't work in decent plotters? Whoa! All the excitement!
            $endgroup$
            – user68153
            Mar 27 at 2:32




            $begingroup$
            So even the batman equation doesn't work in decent plotters? Whoa! All the excitement!
            $endgroup$
            – user68153
            Mar 27 at 2:32











            0












            $begingroup$

            Notice that if $f(x) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)$



            then $f(x)$ is not defined for $x=-5$ because then $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is dividing by $0$. And if $x > -5$ then $-x-5 < 0$ so $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is the square root of a negative number.



            So $f(x)$ simply doesn't work and does not exist if $x ge -5$.



            And if $f(x)$ does not exist for $x ge -5$ then $f(x)cdot (x-y)$ can't exist for $x ge -5$ either.



            It doesn't matter that multiplying by $f(x)(x-y) = 0$ and $0$ exists always. If $f(x)$ doesn't exist then neither does $f(x)times something else$. So we have $f(x)(x-y)= 0$ AND $x < -5$. We can't magic things into existence just because they "cancel out".






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$

















              0












              $begingroup$

              Notice that if $f(x) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)$



              then $f(x)$ is not defined for $x=-5$ because then $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is dividing by $0$. And if $x > -5$ then $-x-5 < 0$ so $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is the square root of a negative number.



              So $f(x)$ simply doesn't work and does not exist if $x ge -5$.



              And if $f(x)$ does not exist for $x ge -5$ then $f(x)cdot (x-y)$ can't exist for $x ge -5$ either.



              It doesn't matter that multiplying by $f(x)(x-y) = 0$ and $0$ exists always. If $f(x)$ doesn't exist then neither does $f(x)times something else$. So we have $f(x)(x-y)= 0$ AND $x < -5$. We can't magic things into existence just because they "cancel out".






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$















                0












                0








                0





                $begingroup$

                Notice that if $f(x) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)$



                then $f(x)$ is not defined for $x=-5$ because then $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is dividing by $0$. And if $x > -5$ then $-x-5 < 0$ so $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is the square root of a negative number.



                So $f(x)$ simply doesn't work and does not exist if $x ge -5$.



                And if $f(x)$ does not exist for $x ge -5$ then $f(x)cdot (x-y)$ can't exist for $x ge -5$ either.



                It doesn't matter that multiplying by $f(x)(x-y) = 0$ and $0$ exists always. If $f(x)$ doesn't exist then neither does $f(x)times something else$. So we have $f(x)(x-y)= 0$ AND $x < -5$. We can't magic things into existence just because they "cancel out".






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                Notice that if $f(x) = left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)5right)^2+left(fracy4right)^2-1right)left(left(fracleft(xsqrtfracleft-x-5+5right)3.4right)^2+left(fracy2.72right)^2-1right)$



                then $f(x)$ is not defined for $x=-5$ because then $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is dividing by $0$. And if $x > -5$ then $-x-5 < 0$ so $sqrt frac -5-x-5$ is the square root of a negative number.



                So $f(x)$ simply doesn't work and does not exist if $x ge -5$.



                And if $f(x)$ does not exist for $x ge -5$ then $f(x)cdot (x-y)$ can't exist for $x ge -5$ either.



                It doesn't matter that multiplying by $f(x)(x-y) = 0$ and $0$ exists always. If $f(x)$ doesn't exist then neither does $f(x)times something else$. So we have $f(x)(x-y)= 0$ AND $x < -5$. We can't magic things into existence just because they "cancel out".







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Mar 26 at 22:41









                fleabloodfleablood

                1




                1



























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded
















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid


                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function ()
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3163004%2fcan-two-equations-when-multiplied-sometimes-not-give-graph-of-both-the-equations%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Solar Wings Breeze Design and development Specifications (Breeze) References Navigation menu1368-485X"Hang glider: Breeze (Solar Wings)"e

                    Kathakali Contents Etymology and nomenclature History Repertoire Songs and musical instruments Traditional plays Styles: Sampradayam Training centers and awards Relationship to other dance forms See also Notes References External links Navigation menueThe Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-MSouth Asian Folklore: An EncyclopediaRoutledge International Encyclopedia of Women: Global Women's Issues and KnowledgeKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlayKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlayKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play10.1353/atj.2005.0004The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-MEncyclopedia of HinduismKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlaySonic Liturgy: Ritual and Music in Hindu Tradition"The Mirror of Gesture"Kathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play"Kathakali"Indian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceMedieval Indian Literature: An AnthologyThe Oxford Companion to Indian TheatreSouth Asian Folklore: An Encyclopedia : Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri LankaThe Rise of Performance Studies: Rethinking Richard Schechner's Broad SpectrumIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceModern Asian Theatre and Performance 1900-2000Critical Theory and PerformanceBetween Theater and AnthropologyKathakali603847011Indian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceBetween Theater and AnthropologyBetween Theater and AnthropologyNambeesan Smaraka AwardsArchivedThe Cambridge Guide to TheatreRoutledge International Encyclopedia of Women: Global Women's Issues and KnowledgeThe Garland Encyclopedia of World Music: South Asia : the Indian subcontinentThe Ethos of Noh: Actors and Their Art10.2307/1145740By Means of Performance: Intercultural Studies of Theatre and Ritual10.1017/s204912550000100xReconceiving the Renaissance: A Critical ReaderPerformance TheoryListening to Theatre: The Aural Dimension of Beijing Opera10.2307/1146013Kathakali: The Art of the Non-WorldlyOn KathakaliKathakali, the dance theatreThe Kathakali Complex: Performance & StructureKathakali Dance-Drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play10.1093/obo/9780195399318-0071Drama and Ritual of Early Hinduism"In the Shadow of Hollywood Orientalism: Authentic East Indian Dancing"10.1080/08949460490274013Sanskrit Play Production in Ancient IndiaIndian Music: History and StructureBharata, the Nāṭyaśāstra233639306Table of Contents2238067286469807Dance In Indian Painting10.2307/32047833204783Kathakali Dance-Theatre: A Visual Narrative of Sacred Indian MimeIndian Classical Dance: The Renaissance and BeyondKathakali: an indigenous art-form of Keralaeee

                    Method to test if a number is a perfect power? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Detecting perfect squares faster than by extracting square rooteffective way to get the integer sequence A181392 from oeisA rarely mentioned fact about perfect powersHow many numbers such $n$ are there that $n<100,lfloorsqrtn rfloor mid n$Check perfect squareness by modulo division against multiple basesFor what pair of integers $(a,b)$ is $3^a + 7^b$ a perfect square.Do there exist any positive integers $n$ such that $lfloore^nrfloor$ is a perfect power? What is the probability that one exists?finding perfect power factors of an integerProve that the sequence contains a perfect square for any natural number $m $ in the domain of $f$ .Counting Perfect Powers