$iota equiv pm 3, pmod10$Solve the congruence $59xequiv 3pmod 78$How many solutions to $x^2-x+5equiv 0pmodp^2$Solve $x^2equiv 5 pmod 35$The strange (for me) case of Mod of Iota.Solving $x^eequiv apmod n$solve $3x^2 + 6x +1 equiv 0 pmod 19$Prove or disprove $a^10=b^10 pmod10alpha$Substitution in congruence relationsAssume $p equiv 3 pmod4$, and there exists $x$ such that $n equiv x^2 pmodp$, find one possible value of $x$ given $n$ , $p$Prove that $3^30 equiv 1 + 17 cdot 31 pmod31^2$.

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$iota equiv pm 3, pmod10$


Solve the congruence $59xequiv 3pmod 78$How many solutions to $x^2-x+5equiv 0pmodp^2$Solve $x^2equiv 5 pmod 35$The strange (for me) case of Mod of Iota.Solving $x^eequiv apmod n$solve $3x^2 + 6x +1 equiv 0 pmod 19$Prove or disprove $a^10=b^10 pmod10alpha$Substitution in congruence relationsAssume $p equiv 3 pmod4$, and there exists $x$ such that $n equiv x^2 pmodp$, find one possible value of $x$ given $n$ , $p$Prove that $3^30 equiv 1 + 17 cdot 31 pmod31^2$.













-4












$begingroup$


I was reading up on the properties modulo function, when I saw the property:



$$-a equiv (10-a) space pmod10$$



Which means



$$-1 equiv (10-1) equiv 9 space pmod10$$



Now:
$$iota = sqrt-1$$



Substituting $-1 equiv 9 pmod10$:



$$iota equiv sqrt9 pmod10$$
$$iota equiv pm 3 pmod10$$



Where did I go wrong?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Mar 16 at 8:58










  • $begingroup$
    You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
    $endgroup$
    – Brevan Ellefsen
    Mar 16 at 9:00










  • $begingroup$
    Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Mar 16 at 9:00







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
    $endgroup$
    – Kartik Soneji
    Mar 16 at 18:39






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Mummert
    Mar 16 at 20:28
















-4












$begingroup$


I was reading up on the properties modulo function, when I saw the property:



$$-a equiv (10-a) space pmod10$$



Which means



$$-1 equiv (10-1) equiv 9 space pmod10$$



Now:
$$iota = sqrt-1$$



Substituting $-1 equiv 9 pmod10$:



$$iota equiv sqrt9 pmod10$$
$$iota equiv pm 3 pmod10$$



Where did I go wrong?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Mar 16 at 8:58










  • $begingroup$
    You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
    $endgroup$
    – Brevan Ellefsen
    Mar 16 at 9:00










  • $begingroup$
    Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Mar 16 at 9:00







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
    $endgroup$
    – Kartik Soneji
    Mar 16 at 18:39






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Mummert
    Mar 16 at 20:28














-4












-4








-4





$begingroup$


I was reading up on the properties modulo function, when I saw the property:



$$-a equiv (10-a) space pmod10$$



Which means



$$-1 equiv (10-1) equiv 9 space pmod10$$



Now:
$$iota = sqrt-1$$



Substituting $-1 equiv 9 pmod10$:



$$iota equiv sqrt9 pmod10$$
$$iota equiv pm 3 pmod10$$



Where did I go wrong?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I was reading up on the properties modulo function, when I saw the property:



$$-a equiv (10-a) space pmod10$$



Which means



$$-1 equiv (10-1) equiv 9 space pmod10$$



Now:
$$iota = sqrt-1$$



Substituting $-1 equiv 9 pmod10$:



$$iota equiv sqrt9 pmod10$$
$$iota equiv pm 3 pmod10$$



Where did I go wrong?







complex-numbers modular-arithmetic fake-proofs






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 17 at 2:32









Parcly Taxel

44.7k1376110




44.7k1376110










asked Mar 16 at 8:55









Kartik SonejiKartik Soneji

347




347











  • $begingroup$
    Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Mar 16 at 8:58










  • $begingroup$
    You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
    $endgroup$
    – Brevan Ellefsen
    Mar 16 at 9:00










  • $begingroup$
    Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Mar 16 at 9:00







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
    $endgroup$
    – Kartik Soneji
    Mar 16 at 18:39






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Mummert
    Mar 16 at 20:28

















  • $begingroup$
    Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Mar 16 at 8:58










  • $begingroup$
    You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
    $endgroup$
    – Brevan Ellefsen
    Mar 16 at 9:00










  • $begingroup$
    Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Mar 16 at 9:00







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
    $endgroup$
    – Kartik Soneji
    Mar 16 at 18:39






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Mummert
    Mar 16 at 20:28
















$begingroup$
Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 8:58




$begingroup$
Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 8:58












$begingroup$
You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
Mar 16 at 9:00




$begingroup$
You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
Mar 16 at 9:00












$begingroup$
Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 9:00





$begingroup$
Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 9:00





1




1




$begingroup$
@CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
$endgroup$
– Kartik Soneji
Mar 16 at 18:39




$begingroup$
@CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
$endgroup$
– Kartik Soneji
Mar 16 at 18:39




1




1




$begingroup$
@Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Mummert
Mar 16 at 20:28





$begingroup$
@Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Mummert
Mar 16 at 20:28











3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















-2












$begingroup$

There are a few things going on in this case.



  • Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.

  • Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.

  • Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)

  • iota is not the square root of -1 ...

  • If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.


  • Some statements only work in one direction.



    Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.







share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$

    As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
    $$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
    But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
    $$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
    but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      $1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
      $endgroup$
      – Roddy MacPhee
      Mar 17 at 0:15










    • $begingroup$
      @RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
      $endgroup$
      – YiFan
      Mar 17 at 0:16










    • $begingroup$
      One can argue it's not a function ...
      $endgroup$
      – Roddy MacPhee
      Mar 17 at 0:18






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
      $endgroup$
      – YiFan
      Mar 17 at 0:19






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
      $endgroup$
      – YiFan
      Mar 17 at 0:22


















    1












    $begingroup$

    The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.



    • In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.


    • In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.


    • If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.


    • If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.


    • If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.


    There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      -2












      $begingroup$

      There are a few things going on in this case.



      • Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.

      • Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.

      • Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)

      • iota is not the square root of -1 ...

      • If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.


      • Some statements only work in one direction.



        Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.







      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$

















        -2












        $begingroup$

        There are a few things going on in this case.



        • Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.

        • Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.

        • Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)

        • iota is not the square root of -1 ...

        • If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.


        • Some statements only work in one direction.



          Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.







        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$















          -2












          -2








          -2





          $begingroup$

          There are a few things going on in this case.



          • Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.

          • Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.

          • Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)

          • iota is not the square root of -1 ...

          • If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.


          • Some statements only work in one direction.



            Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.







          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          There are a few things going on in this case.



          • Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.

          • Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.

          • Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)

          • iota is not the square root of -1 ...

          • If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.


          • Some statements only work in one direction.



            Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.








          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Mar 16 at 17:23

























          answered Mar 16 at 16:48









          Roddy MacPheeRoddy MacPhee

          537118




          537118





















              1












              $begingroup$

              As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
              $$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
              But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
              $$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
              but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                $1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
                $endgroup$
                – Roddy MacPhee
                Mar 17 at 0:15










              • $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:16










              • $begingroup$
                One can argue it's not a function ...
                $endgroup$
                – Roddy MacPhee
                Mar 17 at 0:18






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:19






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:22















              1












              $begingroup$

              As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
              $$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
              But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
              $$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
              but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                $1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
                $endgroup$
                – Roddy MacPhee
                Mar 17 at 0:15










              • $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:16










              • $begingroup$
                One can argue it's not a function ...
                $endgroup$
                – Roddy MacPhee
                Mar 17 at 0:18






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:19






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:22













              1












              1








              1





              $begingroup$

              As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
              $$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
              But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
              $$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
              but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
              $$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
              But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
              $$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
              but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Mar 17 at 0:09









              YiFanYiFan

              4,7821727




              4,7821727











              • $begingroup$
                $1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
                $endgroup$
                – Roddy MacPhee
                Mar 17 at 0:15










              • $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:16










              • $begingroup$
                One can argue it's not a function ...
                $endgroup$
                – Roddy MacPhee
                Mar 17 at 0:18






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:19






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:22
















              • $begingroup$
                $1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
                $endgroup$
                – Roddy MacPhee
                Mar 17 at 0:15










              • $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:16










              • $begingroup$
                One can argue it's not a function ...
                $endgroup$
                – Roddy MacPhee
                Mar 17 at 0:18






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:19






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
                $endgroup$
                – YiFan
                Mar 17 at 0:22















              $begingroup$
              $1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
              $endgroup$
              – Roddy MacPhee
              Mar 17 at 0:15




              $begingroup$
              $1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
              $endgroup$
              – Roddy MacPhee
              Mar 17 at 0:15












              $begingroup$
              @RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
              $endgroup$
              – YiFan
              Mar 17 at 0:16




              $begingroup$
              @RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
              $endgroup$
              – YiFan
              Mar 17 at 0:16












              $begingroup$
              One can argue it's not a function ...
              $endgroup$
              – Roddy MacPhee
              Mar 17 at 0:18




              $begingroup$
              One can argue it's not a function ...
              $endgroup$
              – Roddy MacPhee
              Mar 17 at 0:18




              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              @RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
              $endgroup$
              – YiFan
              Mar 17 at 0:19




              $begingroup$
              @RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
              $endgroup$
              – YiFan
              Mar 17 at 0:19




              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              @RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
              $endgroup$
              – YiFan
              Mar 17 at 0:22




              $begingroup$
              @RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
              $endgroup$
              – YiFan
              Mar 17 at 0:22











              1












              $begingroup$

              The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.



              • In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.


              • In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.


              • If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.


              • If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.


              • If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.


              There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                1












                $begingroup$

                The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.



                • In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.


                • In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.


                • If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.


                • If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.


                • If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.


                There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.



                  • In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.


                  • In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.


                  • If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.


                  • If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.


                  • If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.


                  There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.



                  • In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.


                  • In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.


                  • If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.


                  • If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.


                  • If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.


                  There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Mar 17 at 18:00









                  Carl MummertCarl Mummert

                  67.6k7133252




                  67.6k7133252



























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