$iota equiv pm 3, pmod10$Solve the congruence $59xequiv 3pmod 78$How many solutions to $x^2-x+5equiv 0pmodp^2$Solve $x^2equiv 5 pmod 35$The strange (for me) case of Mod of Iota.Solving $x^eequiv apmod n$solve $3x^2 + 6x +1 equiv 0 pmod 19$Prove or disprove $a^10=b^10 pmod10alpha$Substitution in congruence relationsAssume $p equiv 3 pmod4$, and there exists $x$ such that $n equiv x^2 pmodp$, find one possible value of $x$ given $n$ , $p$Prove that $3^30 equiv 1 + 17 cdot 31 pmod31^2$.
Varistor? Purpose and principle
Flux received by a negative charge
How do you respond to a colleague from another team when they're wrongly expecting that you'll help them?
Reply 'no position' while the job posting is still there
How do I repair my stair bannister?
Is it possible to have a strip of cold climate in the middle of a planet?
Why did the HMS Bounty go back to a time when whales are already rare?
Did arcade monitors have same pixel aspect ratio as TV sets?
Can I use my Chinese passport to enter China after I acquired another citizenship?
What major Native American tribes were around Santa Fe during the late 1850s?
What does this horizontal bar at the first measure mean?
Longest common substring in linear time
Why did the EU agree to delay the Brexit deadline?
If a character with the Alert feat rolls a crit fail on their Perception check, are they surprised?
Some numbers are more equivalent than others
Global amount of publications over time
Sampling Theorem and reconstruction
Can someone explain how this makes sense electrically?
Indicating multiple different modes of speech (fantasy language or telepathy)
Folder comparison
Query about absorption line spectra
List of people who lose a child in תנ"ך
Do the concepts of IP address and network interface not belong to the same layer?
Visiting the UK as unmarried couple
$iota equiv pm 3, pmod10$
Solve the congruence $59xequiv 3pmod 78$How many solutions to $x^2-x+5equiv 0pmodp^2$Solve $x^2equiv 5 pmod 35$The strange (for me) case of Mod of Iota.Solving $x^eequiv apmod n$solve $3x^2 + 6x +1 equiv 0 pmod 19$Prove or disprove $a^10=b^10 pmod10alpha$Substitution in congruence relationsAssume $p equiv 3 pmod4$, and there exists $x$ such that $n equiv x^2 pmodp$, find one possible value of $x$ given $n$ , $p$Prove that $3^30 equiv 1 + 17 cdot 31 pmod31^2$.
$begingroup$
I was reading up on the properties modulo function, when I saw the property:
$$-a equiv (10-a) space pmod10$$
Which means
$$-1 equiv (10-1) equiv 9 space pmod10$$
Now:
$$iota = sqrt-1$$
Substituting $-1 equiv 9 pmod10$:
$$iota equiv sqrt9 pmod10$$
$$iota equiv pm 3 pmod10$$
Where did I go wrong?
complex-numbers modular-arithmetic fake-proofs
$endgroup$
|
show 9 more comments
$begingroup$
I was reading up on the properties modulo function, when I saw the property:
$$-a equiv (10-a) space pmod10$$
Which means
$$-1 equiv (10-1) equiv 9 space pmod10$$
Now:
$$iota = sqrt-1$$
Substituting $-1 equiv 9 pmod10$:
$$iota equiv sqrt9 pmod10$$
$$iota equiv pm 3 pmod10$$
Where did I go wrong?
complex-numbers modular-arithmetic fake-proofs
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 8:58
$begingroup$
You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
Mar 16 at 9:00
$begingroup$
Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 9:00
1
$begingroup$
@CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
$endgroup$
– Kartik Soneji
Mar 16 at 18:39
1
$begingroup$
@Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Mummert
Mar 16 at 20:28
|
show 9 more comments
$begingroup$
I was reading up on the properties modulo function, when I saw the property:
$$-a equiv (10-a) space pmod10$$
Which means
$$-1 equiv (10-1) equiv 9 space pmod10$$
Now:
$$iota = sqrt-1$$
Substituting $-1 equiv 9 pmod10$:
$$iota equiv sqrt9 pmod10$$
$$iota equiv pm 3 pmod10$$
Where did I go wrong?
complex-numbers modular-arithmetic fake-proofs
$endgroup$
I was reading up on the properties modulo function, when I saw the property:
$$-a equiv (10-a) space pmod10$$
Which means
$$-1 equiv (10-1) equiv 9 space pmod10$$
Now:
$$iota = sqrt-1$$
Substituting $-1 equiv 9 pmod10$:
$$iota equiv sqrt9 pmod10$$
$$iota equiv pm 3 pmod10$$
Where did I go wrong?
complex-numbers modular-arithmetic fake-proofs
complex-numbers modular-arithmetic fake-proofs
edited Mar 17 at 2:32
Parcly Taxel
44.7k1376110
44.7k1376110
asked Mar 16 at 8:55
Kartik SonejiKartik Soneji
347
347
$begingroup$
Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 8:58
$begingroup$
You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
Mar 16 at 9:00
$begingroup$
Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 9:00
1
$begingroup$
@CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
$endgroup$
– Kartik Soneji
Mar 16 at 18:39
1
$begingroup$
@Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Mummert
Mar 16 at 20:28
|
show 9 more comments
$begingroup$
Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 8:58
$begingroup$
You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
Mar 16 at 9:00
$begingroup$
Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 9:00
1
$begingroup$
@CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
$endgroup$
– Kartik Soneji
Mar 16 at 18:39
1
$begingroup$
@Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Mummert
Mar 16 at 20:28
$begingroup$
Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 8:58
$begingroup$
Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 8:58
$begingroup$
You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
Mar 16 at 9:00
$begingroup$
You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
Mar 16 at 9:00
$begingroup$
Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 9:00
$begingroup$
Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 9:00
1
1
$begingroup$
@CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
$endgroup$
– Kartik Soneji
Mar 16 at 18:39
$begingroup$
@CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
$endgroup$
– Kartik Soneji
Mar 16 at 18:39
1
1
$begingroup$
@Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Mummert
Mar 16 at 20:28
$begingroup$
@Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Mummert
Mar 16 at 20:28
|
show 9 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
There are a few things going on in this case.
- Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.
- Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.
- Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)
- iota is not the square root of -1 ...
- If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.
Some statements only work in one direction.
Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
$$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
$$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
$1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:15
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:16
$begingroup$
One can argue it's not a function ...
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:18
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:19
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:22
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.
In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.
In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.
If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.
If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.
If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.
There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3150213%2fiota-equiv-pm-3-pmod10%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
There are a few things going on in this case.
- Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.
- Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.
- Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)
- iota is not the square root of -1 ...
- If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.
Some statements only work in one direction.
Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are a few things going on in this case.
- Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.
- Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.
- Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)
- iota is not the square root of -1 ...
- If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.
Some statements only work in one direction.
Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are a few things going on in this case.
- Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.
- Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.
- Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)
- iota is not the square root of -1 ...
- If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.
Some statements only work in one direction.
Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.
$endgroup$
There are a few things going on in this case.
- Mod typically deals in non-negative integers, they just have negative equivalents.
- Mod only cares, if it can exist in the integers.
- Every perfect square ending in 9 ( aka -1 mod 10) is a square of a number that ends in 3 or 7 ( aka 3 and -3 mod 10)
- iota is not the square root of -1 ...
- If a statement has an example, it will work in any Mod, not just Mod 10.
Some statements only work in one direction.
Thanks for learning some basic Mod rules.
edited Mar 16 at 17:23
answered Mar 16 at 16:48
Roddy MacPheeRoddy MacPhee
537118
537118
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
$$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
$$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
$1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:15
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:16
$begingroup$
One can argue it's not a function ...
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:18
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:19
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:22
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
$$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
$$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
$1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:15
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:16
$begingroup$
One can argue it's not a function ...
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:18
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:19
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:22
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
$$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
$$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.
$endgroup$
As others already mentioned, the problem is that $i$ is not an integer, so the typical modular arithmetic doesn't really make sense here. However, there's a way to get something similar, by working with the gaussian integers $mathbb Z[i]$, which is the set of complex numbers with integer comoponents together with the usual addition and multiplication. Suppose we take the principal ideal $(10)subseteqmathbb Z[i]$, then we look at the image of the elements of $mathbb Z[i]$ under the natural ring homomorphism $phi:mathbb Z[i]tomathbb Z[i]/(10)$ (here, we are "looking at the gaussian integers mod $10$"). We do indeed have
$$ i^2=-1=9=3^2=7^2pmod10. $$
But the problem with concluding that $i=3$ or $7$ is that in general, $x^2=y^2$ does not imply $x=y$. It does not even imply $x=pm y$. That's only true in the field of real numbers. To take a much easier example, note that
$$ 1^2=3^2=5^2=7^2=1pmod8,$$
but obviously, $1,3,5,7$ are not equal.
answered Mar 17 at 0:09
YiFanYiFan
4,7821727
4,7821727
$begingroup$
$1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:15
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:16
$begingroup$
One can argue it's not a function ...
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:18
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:19
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:22
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
$1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:15
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:16
$begingroup$
One can argue it's not a function ...
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:18
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:19
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:22
$begingroup$
$1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:15
$begingroup$
$1equiv -7 bmod 8$ and $3equiv -5 bmod 8$
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:15
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:16
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee Exactly, and furthermore, $1neqpm3$ mod $8$. The point is that the map $xmapsto x^2$ mod $8$ is not an injection.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:16
$begingroup$
One can argue it's not a function ...
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:18
$begingroup$
One can argue it's not a function ...
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 0:18
1
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:19
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee What? Of course it is a function. Please elaborate.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:19
1
1
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:22
$begingroup$
@RoddyMacPhee That is not correct. Since it is not an injection, it does not even have an inverse.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Mar 17 at 0:22
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.
In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.
In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.
If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.
If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.
If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.
There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.
In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.
In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.
If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.
If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.
If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.
There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.
In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.
In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.
If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.
If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.
If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.
There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.
$endgroup$
The confusion in the question is in thinking that $sqrt-1$ always denotes the same number. In the end, the expression "$sqrt-1$" denotes a number whose square is $-1$. So the meaning of the symbol $sqrt-1$ depends on the multiplication operation - if we switch to a different multiplication operation, we can get a different meaning for some square roots.
In the real numbers, there is no value for $sqrt-1$ - there is no real number that is the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of real numbers.
In the complex numbers, there are two possible values for the square root of $-1$ under multiplication of complex numbers.
If we work with integers modulo $5$, $2 = sqrt-1$, because $2^2 = 4 equiv -1 pmod5$. But $4$ is not a square root of $-1$, modulo $5$, because $4^2 = 16 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod5$.
If we work with integers modulo $17$, now we have $4 = sqrt-1$, because $4^4 = 16 equiv -1 pmod17$.
If we work modulo 3, there is no square root of $-1$, because $1^2 equiv 2^2 equiv 1 not equiv -1 pmod3$.
There is nothing special about square roots here. For example, modulo $5$ we have $1/2 = 2^-1 equiv 3 pmod5$, because $3$ multiplied by $2$ gives $1$, modulo $5$. Of course the real numbers $1/2$ and $3$ are different, but when we work with a different multiplication operation the meaning of fractions can be different.
answered Mar 17 at 18:00
Carl MummertCarl Mummert
67.6k7133252
67.6k7133252
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3150213%2fiota-equiv-pm-3-pmod10%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
Usually, modular arithmetic is done only with integers, $i=sqrt-1$ is not even a real number.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 8:58
$begingroup$
You don't get $sqrt9$ first of all, you get $10 - i neq sqrt9$ when you substitute. Secondly, those properties of modular arithmetic don't trivially carry over to $mathbbC... $ you need to handle the real and imaginary parts
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
Mar 16 at 9:00
$begingroup$
Moreover, we do not have $$x^2equiv y^2mod nimplies xequiv pm ymod n$$ so we cannot "take the square root" in modular congruences.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Mar 16 at 9:00
1
$begingroup$
@CarlMummert The contradiction is that $iota$ should not be equal to a real number, even in mod n.
$endgroup$
– Kartik Soneji
Mar 16 at 18:39
1
$begingroup$
@Kartik Soneji:. $sqrt-1$ is different in every number system. In base 5, $sqrt-1 = 2$. In base 17, $sqrt-1 = 4$. Neither of these is related to square roots in the complex numbers. In base 3 there is no square root of $-1$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Mummert
Mar 16 at 20:28