Is $mathbb Z[[X]]otimes mathbb Q$ isomorphic to $mathbb Q[[X]]$?Isomorphism which involves $mathbb Z_p[[T]] otimes mathbb Q_p$Polynomial analogue of $p$-adic numbersA tensor product of power seriesUnderstanding isomorphic equivalences of tensor productAs a $mathbbZ$-module, is $mathbbRotimes_mathbbZ mathbbR$ isomorphic to $mathbbR$?Are $mathbbC otimes _mathbbR mathbbC$ and $mathbbC otimes _mathbbC mathbbC$ isomorphic as $mathbbR$-vector spaces?Show that V $otimes _mathbbR$ $mathbbC$ is isomorphic to V + iVIf the tensor power $M^otimes n = 0$, is it possible that $M^otimes n-1$ is nonzero?Real dimension of $mathbbZ^d otimes mathbbR$Is $M_Rotimes _R _RNcong M_mathbb Zotimes_mathbb Z _mathbb ZN$?Show that $Motimes N$ is isomorphic to $Notimes M$Does $R[[x]] cong S[[x]]$ imply $Rcong S$
How to get directions in deep space?
How could a planet have erratic days?
Can I turn my anal-retentiveness into a career?
Does "he squandered his car on drink" sound natural?
Delete multiple columns using awk or sed
Why does Carol not get rid of the Kree symbol on her suit when she changes its colours?
What is going on with gets(stdin) on the site coderbyte?
Circuit Analysis: Obtaining Close Loop OP - AMP Transfer function
What does Apple's new App Store requirement mean
Multiplicative persistence
Is a Java collection guaranteed to be in a valid, usable state after a ConcurrentModificationException?
PTIJ: Why is Haman obsessed with Bose?
Which was the first story featuring espers?
C++ copy constructor called at return
A variation to the phrase "hanging over my shoulders"
How do you make your own symbol when Detexify fails?
US tourist/student visa
What's the name of the logical fallacy where a debater extends a statement far beyond the original statement to make it true?
What kind of floor tile is this?
Review your own paper in Mathematics
Pre-mixing cryogenic fuels and using only one fuel tank
What features enable the Su-25 Frogfoot to operate with such a wide variety of fuels?
Creating two special characters
Will number of steps recorded on FitBit/any fitness tracker add up distance in PokemonGo?
Is $mathbb Z[[X]]otimes mathbb Q$ isomorphic to $mathbb Q[[X]]$?
Isomorphism which involves $mathbb Z_p[[T]] otimes mathbb Q_p$Polynomial analogue of $p$-adic numbersA tensor product of power seriesUnderstanding isomorphic equivalences of tensor productAs a $mathbbZ$-module, is $mathbbRotimes_mathbbZ mathbbR$ isomorphic to $mathbbR$?Are $mathbbC otimes _mathbbR mathbbC$ and $mathbbC otimes _mathbbC mathbbC$ isomorphic as $mathbbR$-vector spaces?Show that V $otimes _mathbbR$ $mathbbC$ is isomorphic to V + iVIf the tensor power $M^otimes n = 0$, is it possible that $M^otimes n-1$ is nonzero?Real dimension of $mathbbZ^d otimes mathbbR$Is $M_Rotimes _R _RNcong M_mathbb Zotimes_mathbb Z _mathbb ZN$?Show that $Motimes N$ is isomorphic to $Notimes M$Does $R[[x]] cong S[[x]]$ imply $Rcong S$
$begingroup$
Is $mathbb Z[[X]]otimes mathbb Q$ isomorphic to $mathbb Q[[X]]$?
Here tensor product is over the ring $mathbb Z$ and $mathbb Z[[X]] $ denotes formal power series over $mathbb Z$.
I think this is true if we take polynomial rings instead of power series. Any help in this regards will be appreciated.
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra tensor-products
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is $mathbb Z[[X]]otimes mathbb Q$ isomorphic to $mathbb Q[[X]]$?
Here tensor product is over the ring $mathbb Z$ and $mathbb Z[[X]] $ denotes formal power series over $mathbb Z$.
I think this is true if we take polynomial rings instead of power series. Any help in this regards will be appreciated.
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra tensor-products
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is $mathbb Z[[X]]otimes mathbb Q$ isomorphic to $mathbb Q[[X]]$?
Here tensor product is over the ring $mathbb Z$ and $mathbb Z[[X]] $ denotes formal power series over $mathbb Z$.
I think this is true if we take polynomial rings instead of power series. Any help in this regards will be appreciated.
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra tensor-products
$endgroup$
Is $mathbb Z[[X]]otimes mathbb Q$ isomorphic to $mathbb Q[[X]]$?
Here tensor product is over the ring $mathbb Z$ and $mathbb Z[[X]] $ denotes formal power series over $mathbb Z$.
I think this is true if we take polynomial rings instead of power series. Any help in this regards will be appreciated.
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra tensor-products
abstract-algebra commutative-algebra tensor-products
edited Feb 20 '15 at 16:00
user26857
39.4k124183
39.4k124183
asked Feb 4 '15 at 19:02
ripsrips
1715
1715
add a comment |
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Consider the natural homomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Qtomathbb Q[[x]]$. It is injective but not an isomorphism since $1+frac12x+frac14x^2 + ...$ does not belong to the image.
What about other 'strange' isomorphisms? If there was some isomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Qcongmathbb Q[[x]]$, then $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$ was a discrete valuation ring, i.e. a principal ideal domain with a unique prime element $pi$.
Consider now the elements $x$ and $x-2$ in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$. They are both non-invertible in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$: for $x$, it is not even invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, and for $2-x$, it is invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, but its inverse $frac12+frac14x+frac18x^2 + ...$ does not come from $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Q$. Hence $x$ and $2-x$ are of the form $pi^k varepsilon$ and $pi^leta$ for $k,lgeq 1$ and units $varepsilon,eta$. This however would force $x^l$ to be associate to $(2-x)^k$, which is a contradiction since this is not even true in $mathbb Q[[x]]$ as $(2-x)^k$ is a unit there but $x^l$ is not.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Nice question! First let me make the weaker claim that there is a natural map $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ to mathbbQ[[x]]$ and that it is not an isomorphism. This is the one induced by the natural inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] to mathbbQ[[x]]$. In terms of this inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is the subring of $mathbbQ[[x]]$ consisting of rational formal power series whose coefficients have a common denominator (because the tensor product consists of finite linear combinations). So, for example, the formal power series
$$e^x = sum_n ge 0 fracx^nn!$$
lies in $mathbbQ[[x]]$ but not in $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ because its denominators get arbitrarily large.
Conceptually, the problem is that power series are a limit but tensor products of commutative rings are a colimit. In general it's not formal to verify that a limit commutes with a colimit; that usually isn't true, and when it is it usually requires work to verify.
Now let's show that they aren't isomorphic at all. (Edit: There was a mistake here which is handled correctly in Hanno's answer.) $mathbbQ[[x]]$ is a local ring, and in particular it has a unique maximal ideal $(x)$, and any element not in $(x)$ (a power series with nonzero constant term) is invertible. But $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is not a local ring: it has $(x)$ as a maximal ideal, but (as in Hanno's answer) the element $x - 2$ does not lie in this maximal ideal but is also not invertible.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In fact we want to prove that $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])notsimeq(S^-1mathbb Z)[[X]]$, where $S=mathbb Zsetminus0$.
This is more or less obvious: the second ring (is $mathbb Q[[X]]$ and it) is local, as it was already noticed, while the first has plenty of maximal ideals: every ideal of $mathbb Z[[X]]$ generated by $X-p$, with $pinmathbb Z$ a (non-negative) prime number, gives rise to a maximal ideal in $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Dear sir, can you kindly explain why the ideal $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbbZ[[X]]$ for $p$ prime in $mathbbZ.$ I tried to give an evaluation map from $mathbbZ[[X]]$ to $mathbbZ$ at the point $p,$ I think for this may be some division algorithm we need by a monic polynomial e.g., $(X-p).$
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 13 at 17:43
$begingroup$
Where did I say that $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbb Z[[X]]$?
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 13 at 22:18
$begingroup$
Then $(x-p)$ must be a prime ideal in $mathbbZ[[Z]]$. What ring will $mathbbZ[[X]]/(X-p) $ is ?
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 14 at 3:21
$begingroup$
The ring of $p$-adic integers.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 14 at 12:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
That the morphism induced by the inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]]tomathbbQ[[x]]$ is not an isomorphism can also be derived from group theoretical properties.
As abelian groups, $mathbbZ[[x]]$ and $mathbbQ[[x]]$ are just direct products of copies of $mathbbZ$ and $mathbbQ$. Consider the exact sequence
$$
0to mathbbZ^mathbbNto
mathbbQ^mathbbN to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN
to0
$$
Tensoring wit $mathbbQ$ is flat, we get the exact sequence
$$
mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ
to0
$$
but the group $(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN$ is not torsion, so
$(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQne0$, which means
$mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is not surjective.
(Note that the map $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is injective because $mathbbQ$ is flat, but it's irrelevant for the problem at hand.)
However, $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ and $mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ are isomorphic (through a different map). Indeed they are both torsion free divisible groups (that is, $mathbbQ$-vector spaces) with the same cardinality $2^aleph_0$, so they have the same dimension $2^aleph_0$ (assuming choice, of course). However, as shown in another answer, this group isomorphism cannot be a ring homomorphism.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Well, I think the question deals with a ring isomorphism.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Feb 4 '15 at 21:46
2
$begingroup$
@user26857 Of course! What I showed is that tensoring the inclusion doesn't give a group isomorphism, so no ring isomorphism either.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Feb 4 '15 at 21:48
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1133777%2fis-mathbb-zx-otimes-mathbb-q-isomorphic-to-mathbb-qx%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Consider the natural homomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Qtomathbb Q[[x]]$. It is injective but not an isomorphism since $1+frac12x+frac14x^2 + ...$ does not belong to the image.
What about other 'strange' isomorphisms? If there was some isomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Qcongmathbb Q[[x]]$, then $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$ was a discrete valuation ring, i.e. a principal ideal domain with a unique prime element $pi$.
Consider now the elements $x$ and $x-2$ in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$. They are both non-invertible in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$: for $x$, it is not even invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, and for $2-x$, it is invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, but its inverse $frac12+frac14x+frac18x^2 + ...$ does not come from $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Q$. Hence $x$ and $2-x$ are of the form $pi^k varepsilon$ and $pi^leta$ for $k,lgeq 1$ and units $varepsilon,eta$. This however would force $x^l$ to be associate to $(2-x)^k$, which is a contradiction since this is not even true in $mathbb Q[[x]]$ as $(2-x)^k$ is a unit there but $x^l$ is not.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider the natural homomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Qtomathbb Q[[x]]$. It is injective but not an isomorphism since $1+frac12x+frac14x^2 + ...$ does not belong to the image.
What about other 'strange' isomorphisms? If there was some isomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Qcongmathbb Q[[x]]$, then $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$ was a discrete valuation ring, i.e. a principal ideal domain with a unique prime element $pi$.
Consider now the elements $x$ and $x-2$ in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$. They are both non-invertible in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$: for $x$, it is not even invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, and for $2-x$, it is invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, but its inverse $frac12+frac14x+frac18x^2 + ...$ does not come from $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Q$. Hence $x$ and $2-x$ are of the form $pi^k varepsilon$ and $pi^leta$ for $k,lgeq 1$ and units $varepsilon,eta$. This however would force $x^l$ to be associate to $(2-x)^k$, which is a contradiction since this is not even true in $mathbb Q[[x]]$ as $(2-x)^k$ is a unit there but $x^l$ is not.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider the natural homomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Qtomathbb Q[[x]]$. It is injective but not an isomorphism since $1+frac12x+frac14x^2 + ...$ does not belong to the image.
What about other 'strange' isomorphisms? If there was some isomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Qcongmathbb Q[[x]]$, then $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$ was a discrete valuation ring, i.e. a principal ideal domain with a unique prime element $pi$.
Consider now the elements $x$ and $x-2$ in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$. They are both non-invertible in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$: for $x$, it is not even invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, and for $2-x$, it is invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, but its inverse $frac12+frac14x+frac18x^2 + ...$ does not come from $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Q$. Hence $x$ and $2-x$ are of the form $pi^k varepsilon$ and $pi^leta$ for $k,lgeq 1$ and units $varepsilon,eta$. This however would force $x^l$ to be associate to $(2-x)^k$, which is a contradiction since this is not even true in $mathbb Q[[x]]$ as $(2-x)^k$ is a unit there but $x^l$ is not.
$endgroup$
Consider the natural homomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Qtomathbb Q[[x]]$. It is injective but not an isomorphism since $1+frac12x+frac14x^2 + ...$ does not belong to the image.
What about other 'strange' isomorphisms? If there was some isomorphism $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Qcongmathbb Q[[x]]$, then $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$ was a discrete valuation ring, i.e. a principal ideal domain with a unique prime element $pi$.
Consider now the elements $x$ and $x-2$ in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$. They are both non-invertible in $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Z mathbb Q$: for $x$, it is not even invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, and for $2-x$, it is invertible in $mathbb Q[[x]]$, but its inverse $frac12+frac14x+frac18x^2 + ...$ does not come from $mathbb Z[[x]]otimes_mathbb Zmathbb Q$. Hence $x$ and $2-x$ are of the form $pi^k varepsilon$ and $pi^leta$ for $k,lgeq 1$ and units $varepsilon,eta$. This however would force $x^l$ to be associate to $(2-x)^k$, which is a contradiction since this is not even true in $mathbb Q[[x]]$ as $(2-x)^k$ is a unit there but $x^l$ is not.
edited Feb 20 '15 at 9:29
answered Feb 4 '15 at 20:06
HannoHanno
14.8k21743
14.8k21743
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Nice question! First let me make the weaker claim that there is a natural map $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ to mathbbQ[[x]]$ and that it is not an isomorphism. This is the one induced by the natural inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] to mathbbQ[[x]]$. In terms of this inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is the subring of $mathbbQ[[x]]$ consisting of rational formal power series whose coefficients have a common denominator (because the tensor product consists of finite linear combinations). So, for example, the formal power series
$$e^x = sum_n ge 0 fracx^nn!$$
lies in $mathbbQ[[x]]$ but not in $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ because its denominators get arbitrarily large.
Conceptually, the problem is that power series are a limit but tensor products of commutative rings are a colimit. In general it's not formal to verify that a limit commutes with a colimit; that usually isn't true, and when it is it usually requires work to verify.
Now let's show that they aren't isomorphic at all. (Edit: There was a mistake here which is handled correctly in Hanno's answer.) $mathbbQ[[x]]$ is a local ring, and in particular it has a unique maximal ideal $(x)$, and any element not in $(x)$ (a power series with nonzero constant term) is invertible. But $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is not a local ring: it has $(x)$ as a maximal ideal, but (as in Hanno's answer) the element $x - 2$ does not lie in this maximal ideal but is also not invertible.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Nice question! First let me make the weaker claim that there is a natural map $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ to mathbbQ[[x]]$ and that it is not an isomorphism. This is the one induced by the natural inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] to mathbbQ[[x]]$. In terms of this inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is the subring of $mathbbQ[[x]]$ consisting of rational formal power series whose coefficients have a common denominator (because the tensor product consists of finite linear combinations). So, for example, the formal power series
$$e^x = sum_n ge 0 fracx^nn!$$
lies in $mathbbQ[[x]]$ but not in $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ because its denominators get arbitrarily large.
Conceptually, the problem is that power series are a limit but tensor products of commutative rings are a colimit. In general it's not formal to verify that a limit commutes with a colimit; that usually isn't true, and when it is it usually requires work to verify.
Now let's show that they aren't isomorphic at all. (Edit: There was a mistake here which is handled correctly in Hanno's answer.) $mathbbQ[[x]]$ is a local ring, and in particular it has a unique maximal ideal $(x)$, and any element not in $(x)$ (a power series with nonzero constant term) is invertible. But $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is not a local ring: it has $(x)$ as a maximal ideal, but (as in Hanno's answer) the element $x - 2$ does not lie in this maximal ideal but is also not invertible.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Nice question! First let me make the weaker claim that there is a natural map $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ to mathbbQ[[x]]$ and that it is not an isomorphism. This is the one induced by the natural inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] to mathbbQ[[x]]$. In terms of this inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is the subring of $mathbbQ[[x]]$ consisting of rational formal power series whose coefficients have a common denominator (because the tensor product consists of finite linear combinations). So, for example, the formal power series
$$e^x = sum_n ge 0 fracx^nn!$$
lies in $mathbbQ[[x]]$ but not in $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ because its denominators get arbitrarily large.
Conceptually, the problem is that power series are a limit but tensor products of commutative rings are a colimit. In general it's not formal to verify that a limit commutes with a colimit; that usually isn't true, and when it is it usually requires work to verify.
Now let's show that they aren't isomorphic at all. (Edit: There was a mistake here which is handled correctly in Hanno's answer.) $mathbbQ[[x]]$ is a local ring, and in particular it has a unique maximal ideal $(x)$, and any element not in $(x)$ (a power series with nonzero constant term) is invertible. But $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is not a local ring: it has $(x)$ as a maximal ideal, but (as in Hanno's answer) the element $x - 2$ does not lie in this maximal ideal but is also not invertible.
$endgroup$
Nice question! First let me make the weaker claim that there is a natural map $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ to mathbbQ[[x]]$ and that it is not an isomorphism. This is the one induced by the natural inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] to mathbbQ[[x]]$. In terms of this inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is the subring of $mathbbQ[[x]]$ consisting of rational formal power series whose coefficients have a common denominator (because the tensor product consists of finite linear combinations). So, for example, the formal power series
$$e^x = sum_n ge 0 fracx^nn!$$
lies in $mathbbQ[[x]]$ but not in $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ because its denominators get arbitrarily large.
Conceptually, the problem is that power series are a limit but tensor products of commutative rings are a colimit. In general it's not formal to verify that a limit commutes with a colimit; that usually isn't true, and when it is it usually requires work to verify.
Now let's show that they aren't isomorphic at all. (Edit: There was a mistake here which is handled correctly in Hanno's answer.) $mathbbQ[[x]]$ is a local ring, and in particular it has a unique maximal ideal $(x)$, and any element not in $(x)$ (a power series with nonzero constant term) is invertible. But $mathbbZ[[x]] otimes mathbbQ$ is not a local ring: it has $(x)$ as a maximal ideal, but (as in Hanno's answer) the element $x - 2$ does not lie in this maximal ideal but is also not invertible.
edited Feb 4 '15 at 20:15
answered Feb 4 '15 at 19:54
Qiaochu YuanQiaochu Yuan
281k32593938
281k32593938
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In fact we want to prove that $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])notsimeq(S^-1mathbb Z)[[X]]$, where $S=mathbb Zsetminus0$.
This is more or less obvious: the second ring (is $mathbb Q[[X]]$ and it) is local, as it was already noticed, while the first has plenty of maximal ideals: every ideal of $mathbb Z[[X]]$ generated by $X-p$, with $pinmathbb Z$ a (non-negative) prime number, gives rise to a maximal ideal in $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Dear sir, can you kindly explain why the ideal $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbbZ[[X]]$ for $p$ prime in $mathbbZ.$ I tried to give an evaluation map from $mathbbZ[[X]]$ to $mathbbZ$ at the point $p,$ I think for this may be some division algorithm we need by a monic polynomial e.g., $(X-p).$
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 13 at 17:43
$begingroup$
Where did I say that $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbb Z[[X]]$?
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 13 at 22:18
$begingroup$
Then $(x-p)$ must be a prime ideal in $mathbbZ[[Z]]$. What ring will $mathbbZ[[X]]/(X-p) $ is ?
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 14 at 3:21
$begingroup$
The ring of $p$-adic integers.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 14 at 12:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In fact we want to prove that $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])notsimeq(S^-1mathbb Z)[[X]]$, where $S=mathbb Zsetminus0$.
This is more or less obvious: the second ring (is $mathbb Q[[X]]$ and it) is local, as it was already noticed, while the first has plenty of maximal ideals: every ideal of $mathbb Z[[X]]$ generated by $X-p$, with $pinmathbb Z$ a (non-negative) prime number, gives rise to a maximal ideal in $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Dear sir, can you kindly explain why the ideal $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbbZ[[X]]$ for $p$ prime in $mathbbZ.$ I tried to give an evaluation map from $mathbbZ[[X]]$ to $mathbbZ$ at the point $p,$ I think for this may be some division algorithm we need by a monic polynomial e.g., $(X-p).$
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 13 at 17:43
$begingroup$
Where did I say that $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbb Z[[X]]$?
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 13 at 22:18
$begingroup$
Then $(x-p)$ must be a prime ideal in $mathbbZ[[Z]]$. What ring will $mathbbZ[[X]]/(X-p) $ is ?
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 14 at 3:21
$begingroup$
The ring of $p$-adic integers.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 14 at 12:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In fact we want to prove that $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])notsimeq(S^-1mathbb Z)[[X]]$, where $S=mathbb Zsetminus0$.
This is more or less obvious: the second ring (is $mathbb Q[[X]]$ and it) is local, as it was already noticed, while the first has plenty of maximal ideals: every ideal of $mathbb Z[[X]]$ generated by $X-p$, with $pinmathbb Z$ a (non-negative) prime number, gives rise to a maximal ideal in $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])$.
$endgroup$
In fact we want to prove that $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])notsimeq(S^-1mathbb Z)[[X]]$, where $S=mathbb Zsetminus0$.
This is more or less obvious: the second ring (is $mathbb Q[[X]]$ and it) is local, as it was already noticed, while the first has plenty of maximal ideals: every ideal of $mathbb Z[[X]]$ generated by $X-p$, with $pinmathbb Z$ a (non-negative) prime number, gives rise to a maximal ideal in $S^-1(mathbb Z[[X]])$.
edited Mar 14 at 12:18
answered Feb 4 '15 at 21:20
user26857user26857
39.4k124183
39.4k124183
$begingroup$
Dear sir, can you kindly explain why the ideal $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbbZ[[X]]$ for $p$ prime in $mathbbZ.$ I tried to give an evaluation map from $mathbbZ[[X]]$ to $mathbbZ$ at the point $p,$ I think for this may be some division algorithm we need by a monic polynomial e.g., $(X-p).$
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 13 at 17:43
$begingroup$
Where did I say that $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbb Z[[X]]$?
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 13 at 22:18
$begingroup$
Then $(x-p)$ must be a prime ideal in $mathbbZ[[Z]]$. What ring will $mathbbZ[[X]]/(X-p) $ is ?
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 14 at 3:21
$begingroup$
The ring of $p$-adic integers.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 14 at 12:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Dear sir, can you kindly explain why the ideal $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbbZ[[X]]$ for $p$ prime in $mathbbZ.$ I tried to give an evaluation map from $mathbbZ[[X]]$ to $mathbbZ$ at the point $p,$ I think for this may be some division algorithm we need by a monic polynomial e.g., $(X-p).$
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 13 at 17:43
$begingroup$
Where did I say that $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbb Z[[X]]$?
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 13 at 22:18
$begingroup$
Then $(x-p)$ must be a prime ideal in $mathbbZ[[Z]]$. What ring will $mathbbZ[[X]]/(X-p) $ is ?
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 14 at 3:21
$begingroup$
The ring of $p$-adic integers.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 14 at 12:15
$begingroup$
Dear sir, can you kindly explain why the ideal $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbbZ[[X]]$ for $p$ prime in $mathbbZ.$ I tried to give an evaluation map from $mathbbZ[[X]]$ to $mathbbZ$ at the point $p,$ I think for this may be some division algorithm we need by a monic polynomial e.g., $(X-p).$
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 13 at 17:43
$begingroup$
Dear sir, can you kindly explain why the ideal $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbbZ[[X]]$ for $p$ prime in $mathbbZ.$ I tried to give an evaluation map from $mathbbZ[[X]]$ to $mathbbZ$ at the point $p,$ I think for this may be some division algorithm we need by a monic polynomial e.g., $(X-p).$
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 13 at 17:43
$begingroup$
Where did I say that $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbb Z[[X]]$?
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 13 at 22:18
$begingroup$
Where did I say that $(X-p)$ is maximal in $mathbb Z[[X]]$?
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 13 at 22:18
$begingroup$
Then $(x-p)$ must be a prime ideal in $mathbbZ[[Z]]$. What ring will $mathbbZ[[X]]/(X-p) $ is ?
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 14 at 3:21
$begingroup$
Then $(x-p)$ must be a prime ideal in $mathbbZ[[Z]]$. What ring will $mathbbZ[[X]]/(X-p) $ is ?
$endgroup$
– user371231
Mar 14 at 3:21
$begingroup$
The ring of $p$-adic integers.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 14 at 12:15
$begingroup$
The ring of $p$-adic integers.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Mar 14 at 12:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
That the morphism induced by the inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]]tomathbbQ[[x]]$ is not an isomorphism can also be derived from group theoretical properties.
As abelian groups, $mathbbZ[[x]]$ and $mathbbQ[[x]]$ are just direct products of copies of $mathbbZ$ and $mathbbQ$. Consider the exact sequence
$$
0to mathbbZ^mathbbNto
mathbbQ^mathbbN to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN
to0
$$
Tensoring wit $mathbbQ$ is flat, we get the exact sequence
$$
mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ
to0
$$
but the group $(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN$ is not torsion, so
$(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQne0$, which means
$mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is not surjective.
(Note that the map $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is injective because $mathbbQ$ is flat, but it's irrelevant for the problem at hand.)
However, $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ and $mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ are isomorphic (through a different map). Indeed they are both torsion free divisible groups (that is, $mathbbQ$-vector spaces) with the same cardinality $2^aleph_0$, so they have the same dimension $2^aleph_0$ (assuming choice, of course). However, as shown in another answer, this group isomorphism cannot be a ring homomorphism.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Well, I think the question deals with a ring isomorphism.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Feb 4 '15 at 21:46
2
$begingroup$
@user26857 Of course! What I showed is that tensoring the inclusion doesn't give a group isomorphism, so no ring isomorphism either.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Feb 4 '15 at 21:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
That the morphism induced by the inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]]tomathbbQ[[x]]$ is not an isomorphism can also be derived from group theoretical properties.
As abelian groups, $mathbbZ[[x]]$ and $mathbbQ[[x]]$ are just direct products of copies of $mathbbZ$ and $mathbbQ$. Consider the exact sequence
$$
0to mathbbZ^mathbbNto
mathbbQ^mathbbN to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN
to0
$$
Tensoring wit $mathbbQ$ is flat, we get the exact sequence
$$
mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ
to0
$$
but the group $(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN$ is not torsion, so
$(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQne0$, which means
$mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is not surjective.
(Note that the map $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is injective because $mathbbQ$ is flat, but it's irrelevant for the problem at hand.)
However, $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ and $mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ are isomorphic (through a different map). Indeed they are both torsion free divisible groups (that is, $mathbbQ$-vector spaces) with the same cardinality $2^aleph_0$, so they have the same dimension $2^aleph_0$ (assuming choice, of course). However, as shown in another answer, this group isomorphism cannot be a ring homomorphism.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Well, I think the question deals with a ring isomorphism.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Feb 4 '15 at 21:46
2
$begingroup$
@user26857 Of course! What I showed is that tensoring the inclusion doesn't give a group isomorphism, so no ring isomorphism either.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Feb 4 '15 at 21:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
That the morphism induced by the inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]]tomathbbQ[[x]]$ is not an isomorphism can also be derived from group theoretical properties.
As abelian groups, $mathbbZ[[x]]$ and $mathbbQ[[x]]$ are just direct products of copies of $mathbbZ$ and $mathbbQ$. Consider the exact sequence
$$
0to mathbbZ^mathbbNto
mathbbQ^mathbbN to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN
to0
$$
Tensoring wit $mathbbQ$ is flat, we get the exact sequence
$$
mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ
to0
$$
but the group $(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN$ is not torsion, so
$(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQne0$, which means
$mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is not surjective.
(Note that the map $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is injective because $mathbbQ$ is flat, but it's irrelevant for the problem at hand.)
However, $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ and $mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ are isomorphic (through a different map). Indeed they are both torsion free divisible groups (that is, $mathbbQ$-vector spaces) with the same cardinality $2^aleph_0$, so they have the same dimension $2^aleph_0$ (assuming choice, of course). However, as shown in another answer, this group isomorphism cannot be a ring homomorphism.
$endgroup$
That the morphism induced by the inclusion $mathbbZ[[x]]tomathbbQ[[x]]$ is not an isomorphism can also be derived from group theoretical properties.
As abelian groups, $mathbbZ[[x]]$ and $mathbbQ[[x]]$ are just direct products of copies of $mathbbZ$ and $mathbbQ$. Consider the exact sequence
$$
0to mathbbZ^mathbbNto
mathbbQ^mathbbN to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN
to0
$$
Tensoring wit $mathbbQ$ is flat, we get the exact sequence
$$
mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ to
(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ
to0
$$
but the group $(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbN$ is not torsion, so
$(mathbbQ/mathbbZ)^mathbbNotimesmathbbQne0$, which means
$mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is not surjective.
(Note that the map $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQto
mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ is injective because $mathbbQ$ is flat, but it's irrelevant for the problem at hand.)
However, $mathbbZ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ and $mathbbQ^mathbbNotimesmathbbQ$ are isomorphic (through a different map). Indeed they are both torsion free divisible groups (that is, $mathbbQ$-vector spaces) with the same cardinality $2^aleph_0$, so they have the same dimension $2^aleph_0$ (assuming choice, of course). However, as shown in another answer, this group isomorphism cannot be a ring homomorphism.
answered Feb 4 '15 at 21:44
egregegreg
184k1486206
184k1486206
$begingroup$
Well, I think the question deals with a ring isomorphism.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Feb 4 '15 at 21:46
2
$begingroup$
@user26857 Of course! What I showed is that tensoring the inclusion doesn't give a group isomorphism, so no ring isomorphism either.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Feb 4 '15 at 21:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well, I think the question deals with a ring isomorphism.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Feb 4 '15 at 21:46
2
$begingroup$
@user26857 Of course! What I showed is that tensoring the inclusion doesn't give a group isomorphism, so no ring isomorphism either.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Feb 4 '15 at 21:48
$begingroup$
Well, I think the question deals with a ring isomorphism.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Feb 4 '15 at 21:46
$begingroup$
Well, I think the question deals with a ring isomorphism.
$endgroup$
– user26857
Feb 4 '15 at 21:46
2
2
$begingroup$
@user26857 Of course! What I showed is that tensoring the inclusion doesn't give a group isomorphism, so no ring isomorphism either.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Feb 4 '15 at 21:48
$begingroup$
@user26857 Of course! What I showed is that tensoring the inclusion doesn't give a group isomorphism, so no ring isomorphism either.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Feb 4 '15 at 21:48
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1133777%2fis-mathbb-zx-otimes-mathbb-q-isomorphic-to-mathbb-qx%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown