If any $15$ cars have $3$ with the same manufacturer, prove that any $100$ cars have $15$ with the same manufacturer.prove something must happen with pigeonhole principleNumber of words with a minimal number of repetitionsCombinatorial way of managing a store's cashierNeed help with a hard combinatorics problemBob starts with $20. Bob flips a coin. Heads = Win +$1 Tails = Lose -$1. Stops if he has $0 or $100. Probability he ends up with $0?Probability of two teams from same league level avoiding each other in cup drawFind Three Mutual Friends in a Mathematical SocietyCombinatorics, how many ways?A possible generalization of an olympiad problemNeighbours in a circle with similar interestsWhat are the chances that nobody speaks English in a group of 50 people in a country where 25% of the population does?

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If any $15$ cars have $3$ with the same manufacturer, prove that any $100$ cars have $15$ with the same manufacturer.


prove something must happen with pigeonhole principleNumber of words with a minimal number of repetitionsCombinatorial way of managing a store's cashierNeed help with a hard combinatorics problemBob starts with $20. Bob flips a coin. Heads = Win +$1 Tails = Lose -$1. Stops if he has $0 or $100. Probability he ends up with $0?Probability of two teams from same league level avoiding each other in cup drawFind Three Mutual Friends in a Mathematical SocietyCombinatorics, how many ways?A possible generalization of an olympiad problemNeighbours in a circle with similar interestsWhat are the chances that nobody speaks English in a group of 50 people in a country where 25% of the population does?













1












$begingroup$


I was solving some combinatorics question and I came upon one I've been trying to solve for 2 days and I'm curios how to solve it.



It is known that in every set of 15 cars, at least 3 were manufactured from the same country (there can also be another 3 (or more) cars in the set which came from another country). prove that in every set of 100 cars, 15 were made manufactured in the same country.



Thanks to anyone who helps!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Experiment with different numbers of countries. For example, if there are $10$ countries, can you construct a set of $15$ cars that don't contain $3$ cars from the same country?
    $endgroup$
    – John Douma
    Mar 14 at 16:32










  • $begingroup$
    This is an application of the Pigeonhole Principle. Note that if there were, say, 8 countries, then you would be able to create a set of 15 cars in which no more than two cars are from a particular country: just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries, and 1 car in the last country. So, figure out the largest possible number of countries that can manufacture cars on the basis of the information you are given, and then use the Pigeonhole Principle to derive the desiredc conclusion.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 14 at 16:45










  • $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin it is a bit more subtle: the first 7 countries may not have 2 cars each.
    $endgroup$
    – LinAlg
    Mar 14 at 16:49










  • $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin but doesn't it have to work for any number of countries?
    $endgroup$
    – joe594
    Mar 14 at 16:56






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin "just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries" Who said there are at least 2 cars made in each of these countries?
    $endgroup$
    – Vladislav
    Mar 14 at 17:09















1












$begingroup$


I was solving some combinatorics question and I came upon one I've been trying to solve for 2 days and I'm curios how to solve it.



It is known that in every set of 15 cars, at least 3 were manufactured from the same country (there can also be another 3 (or more) cars in the set which came from another country). prove that in every set of 100 cars, 15 were made manufactured in the same country.



Thanks to anyone who helps!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Experiment with different numbers of countries. For example, if there are $10$ countries, can you construct a set of $15$ cars that don't contain $3$ cars from the same country?
    $endgroup$
    – John Douma
    Mar 14 at 16:32










  • $begingroup$
    This is an application of the Pigeonhole Principle. Note that if there were, say, 8 countries, then you would be able to create a set of 15 cars in which no more than two cars are from a particular country: just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries, and 1 car in the last country. So, figure out the largest possible number of countries that can manufacture cars on the basis of the information you are given, and then use the Pigeonhole Principle to derive the desiredc conclusion.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 14 at 16:45










  • $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin it is a bit more subtle: the first 7 countries may not have 2 cars each.
    $endgroup$
    – LinAlg
    Mar 14 at 16:49










  • $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin but doesn't it have to work for any number of countries?
    $endgroup$
    – joe594
    Mar 14 at 16:56






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin "just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries" Who said there are at least 2 cars made in each of these countries?
    $endgroup$
    – Vladislav
    Mar 14 at 17:09













1












1








1





$begingroup$


I was solving some combinatorics question and I came upon one I've been trying to solve for 2 days and I'm curios how to solve it.



It is known that in every set of 15 cars, at least 3 were manufactured from the same country (there can also be another 3 (or more) cars in the set which came from another country). prove that in every set of 100 cars, 15 were made manufactured in the same country.



Thanks to anyone who helps!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I was solving some combinatorics question and I came upon one I've been trying to solve for 2 days and I'm curios how to solve it.



It is known that in every set of 15 cars, at least 3 were manufactured from the same country (there can also be another 3 (or more) cars in the set which came from another country). prove that in every set of 100 cars, 15 were made manufactured in the same country.



Thanks to anyone who helps!







combinatorics






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 14 at 18:24









Mike Earnest

25.5k22151




25.5k22151










asked Mar 14 at 16:13









joe594joe594

91




91











  • $begingroup$
    Experiment with different numbers of countries. For example, if there are $10$ countries, can you construct a set of $15$ cars that don't contain $3$ cars from the same country?
    $endgroup$
    – John Douma
    Mar 14 at 16:32










  • $begingroup$
    This is an application of the Pigeonhole Principle. Note that if there were, say, 8 countries, then you would be able to create a set of 15 cars in which no more than two cars are from a particular country: just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries, and 1 car in the last country. So, figure out the largest possible number of countries that can manufacture cars on the basis of the information you are given, and then use the Pigeonhole Principle to derive the desiredc conclusion.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 14 at 16:45










  • $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin it is a bit more subtle: the first 7 countries may not have 2 cars each.
    $endgroup$
    – LinAlg
    Mar 14 at 16:49










  • $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin but doesn't it have to work for any number of countries?
    $endgroup$
    – joe594
    Mar 14 at 16:56






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin "just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries" Who said there are at least 2 cars made in each of these countries?
    $endgroup$
    – Vladislav
    Mar 14 at 17:09
















  • $begingroup$
    Experiment with different numbers of countries. For example, if there are $10$ countries, can you construct a set of $15$ cars that don't contain $3$ cars from the same country?
    $endgroup$
    – John Douma
    Mar 14 at 16:32










  • $begingroup$
    This is an application of the Pigeonhole Principle. Note that if there were, say, 8 countries, then you would be able to create a set of 15 cars in which no more than two cars are from a particular country: just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries, and 1 car in the last country. So, figure out the largest possible number of countries that can manufacture cars on the basis of the information you are given, and then use the Pigeonhole Principle to derive the desiredc conclusion.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 14 at 16:45










  • $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin it is a bit more subtle: the first 7 countries may not have 2 cars each.
    $endgroup$
    – LinAlg
    Mar 14 at 16:49










  • $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin but doesn't it have to work for any number of countries?
    $endgroup$
    – joe594
    Mar 14 at 16:56






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @ArturoMagidin "just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries" Who said there are at least 2 cars made in each of these countries?
    $endgroup$
    – Vladislav
    Mar 14 at 17:09















$begingroup$
Experiment with different numbers of countries. For example, if there are $10$ countries, can you construct a set of $15$ cars that don't contain $3$ cars from the same country?
$endgroup$
– John Douma
Mar 14 at 16:32




$begingroup$
Experiment with different numbers of countries. For example, if there are $10$ countries, can you construct a set of $15$ cars that don't contain $3$ cars from the same country?
$endgroup$
– John Douma
Mar 14 at 16:32












$begingroup$
This is an application of the Pigeonhole Principle. Note that if there were, say, 8 countries, then you would be able to create a set of 15 cars in which no more than two cars are from a particular country: just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries, and 1 car in the last country. So, figure out the largest possible number of countries that can manufacture cars on the basis of the information you are given, and then use the Pigeonhole Principle to derive the desiredc conclusion.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 14 at 16:45




$begingroup$
This is an application of the Pigeonhole Principle. Note that if there were, say, 8 countries, then you would be able to create a set of 15 cars in which no more than two cars are from a particular country: just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries, and 1 car in the last country. So, figure out the largest possible number of countries that can manufacture cars on the basis of the information you are given, and then use the Pigeonhole Principle to derive the desiredc conclusion.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 14 at 16:45












$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin it is a bit more subtle: the first 7 countries may not have 2 cars each.
$endgroup$
– LinAlg
Mar 14 at 16:49




$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin it is a bit more subtle: the first 7 countries may not have 2 cars each.
$endgroup$
– LinAlg
Mar 14 at 16:49












$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin but doesn't it have to work for any number of countries?
$endgroup$
– joe594
Mar 14 at 16:56




$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin but doesn't it have to work for any number of countries?
$endgroup$
– joe594
Mar 14 at 16:56




1




1




$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin "just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries" Who said there are at least 2 cars made in each of these countries?
$endgroup$
– Vladislav
Mar 14 at 17:09




$begingroup$
@ArturoMagidin "just have 2 cars made in each of the first 7 countries" Who said there are at least 2 cars made in each of these countries?
$endgroup$
– Vladislav
Mar 14 at 17:09










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

Consider a set $A$ of $100$ cars such that no $15$ are manufactured in the same country; we will show that there must be a subset of $15$ cars no three of which are from the same country.



So consider any hypothetical particular subset $Ssubset A$.



1) No country has contributed more than $14$ cars to $A$, since if it had, then choose $15$ cars among that country's produce, and you violated the definition of $A$.



2) The countries contributing to $A$ can be divided into $n_1$ countries contributing just one car, and $n_2$ countries contributing between $2$ and $14$ cars. $n_1 + 14n_2 geq 100$.



3) If $n_2>7$ we can choose $2$ cars from each of those countries for $S$, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 leq 7$.



4) $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 98 = 2$. So if $n_2 = 7$ we can choose for $S$ two cars from each of those seven countries and one car from an $n_1$ country, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 < 7$.



5) If $n_2 leq 6$ then $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 84 = 16$. Thus if $n_2 < 7$ we can form a set $S$ of more than $15$ cars no two of which are from the same country, again violating the rules.



6) Therefore whenever we have a set of $100$ cars no $15$ of which are from the same country, we can form a set $S$ of $15$ cars no $3$ of which are from the same country.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The first part of 4) up to "So" can be removed.
    $endgroup$
    – LinAlg
    Mar 14 at 17:28


















1












$begingroup$

Let $n$ be the number of countries who made exactly one car appearing in the $100$.

Let $m$ be the number of countries who made more than one car appearing in the $100$.



Assume by way of contradiction that no country made $15$ cars. Then $$n+14mge 100,$$ because $n$ countries contribute $1$ car each and $m$ countries contribute at most $14$ each, and $$n+2mle 14,$$ for otherwise selecting one car from the $n$ countries and two from the $m$ countries would give $15$ cars with no three alike. Therefore,
$$
(n+14m)-(n+2m)ge 100-14implies 12mge 86implies mge lceil 86/12rceil = 8
$$

But this is a contradiction, because selecting two cars from eight of the countries with more than one car would give $16$ cars with no three alike.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$

    Edit: See the very final paragraph for the same argument, but starting from the other end. Perhaps that will clarify.




    It is impossible for there to be 8 or more manufacturing countries. If there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country manufacture exactly 1 car. That means that if there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, the hypothesis ("in every set of 15 cars at least 3 were manufactured in the same country") would not be true.



    Thus, the maximum number of manufacturing countries is 7. If there are 7 or fewer manufacturing countries, then by the pigeonhole principle, if we are distributing 100 items among (at most) 7 "boxes" (the countries), then at least one box contains 15 or more items (since otherwise, you would have at most $14times 7 = 98$ items).




    In light of comments, let me clarify what this approach is doing.



    There are two ways to read the problem: either as describing a specific run of cars made by an unknown number of countries, or as describing a specific set of manufacturing countries that make runs of productions of cars.



    In essence: I'm showing that it is impossible to construct a counterexample by considering the number of countries involved. Other approaches show that it is impossible to have a counterexample by considering the cars involved. The two approaches amount to the same thing, because a potential counterexample would be "detected" by either approach.




    Sigh; apparently, this is creating way more controversy than it should. I do not dispute other approaches, but apparently some people are having issues with this approach.



    What the approach does is show that no counterexample can exist; that is, we cannot have a set of cars in which the premise holds but not the conclusion. I do this by attempting to build such a counterexample, but showing that none can be made. I attempt to build such a counterexample by considering the number of countries that would be included in such a counterexample.



    When I say "you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country make exactly one car", how does that fit into a potential counterexample? It tells you that if you have a particular run in which there are 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you would either trivially satisfy the conclusion, or else fail to satisfy the hypothesis; the situation described is the extreme case, where it is least clear that the hypothesis may fail (obviously, if we knew there are 15 or more manufacturing countries we would know the premise fails, etc). Any larger number of countries make it easier to construct a subset of 15 with no more than 2 from the same country. So in a search for a potential counterexample (with 100+ cars), we may restrict to the case in which there are no more than 7 manufacturing countries.



    It's just that I'm thinking about "building a counterexample" as countries pumping out cars to whatever specification, rather than "we have a bunch of cars, let's figure out who made them."



    Any potential counterexample would be detected by this approach. The fact that this approach does not detect a counterexample shows that no counterexample exists.



    Let me do the same argument, but starting with the "fewer countries" case first.



    If a counterexample set of 100 cars involved 7 or fewer countries, then we would get at most 98 cars (14 cars each for the at most 7 countries); so the counterexample involves 8 or more countries. On the other hand, if you had 8 or more countries, and exactly $kleq 7$ make at least 2 cars, and at least $15-2k$ make exactly one, you fail the assumption; so if we have exactly $k$ making at least 2 cars, and at most $14-2k$ make exactly $1$ car, then you still need to distribute $100- (2k) - (14-2k) = 86$ cars among the $k$ countries that make at least $2$ cars. If we are to avoid going over $14$ for any given country, we want $k$ to be as large as possible. The largest possible is $7$ with $1$ country making exactly 1 car, which is the case I opened with.



    I originally did the same thing, but did it in the other order, by first dismissing the counterexamples with 8 or more countries, then noting no counterexample can have 7 or fewer.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 2




      $begingroup$
      "You could have each of the first $7$ countries manufacture two cars..." What if some of these countries only made one car appearing tin the set of 100? The cars are already made, you cannot have the countries manufacture two cars.
      $endgroup$
      – Mike Earnest
      Mar 14 at 17:11










    • $begingroup$
      @Mike Earnest: You are reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of cars; this collection has the following properties." I am reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of countries making cars. This collection has the following properties." The two approaches are, in essence, equivalent and reach the same conclusions.
      $endgroup$
      – Arturo Magidin
      Mar 14 at 17:15







    • 2




      $begingroup$
      It is not a matter of reading. The case when one of the first 7 countries has only 1 car made ruins your proof.
      $endgroup$
      – Vladislav
      Mar 14 at 17:20










    • $begingroup$
      @Vladislav: Are you objecting to me saying they are "the first 7", and not "some 7"? Surely not. The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want. You really are objecting to me treating the problem as describing an arbitrary run of production rather than a fixed set of cars. Is that not the case?
      $endgroup$
      – Arturo Magidin
      Mar 14 at 17:24






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      @ArturoMagidin "The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want." Sure you can, but you need to prove that there are 7 countries produced at least 2 cars. You didn't. And the problem doesn't describe the "run of production" anyhow, it makes statements about sets of cars and countries.
      $endgroup$
      – Vladislav
      Mar 14 at 17:32











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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    2












    $begingroup$

    Consider a set $A$ of $100$ cars such that no $15$ are manufactured in the same country; we will show that there must be a subset of $15$ cars no three of which are from the same country.



    So consider any hypothetical particular subset $Ssubset A$.



    1) No country has contributed more than $14$ cars to $A$, since if it had, then choose $15$ cars among that country's produce, and you violated the definition of $A$.



    2) The countries contributing to $A$ can be divided into $n_1$ countries contributing just one car, and $n_2$ countries contributing between $2$ and $14$ cars. $n_1 + 14n_2 geq 100$.



    3) If $n_2>7$ we can choose $2$ cars from each of those countries for $S$, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 leq 7$.



    4) $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 98 = 2$. So if $n_2 = 7$ we can choose for $S$ two cars from each of those seven countries and one car from an $n_1$ country, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 < 7$.



    5) If $n_2 leq 6$ then $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 84 = 16$. Thus if $n_2 < 7$ we can form a set $S$ of more than $15$ cars no two of which are from the same country, again violating the rules.



    6) Therefore whenever we have a set of $100$ cars no $15$ of which are from the same country, we can form a set $S$ of $15$ cars no $3$ of which are from the same country.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      The first part of 4) up to "So" can be removed.
      $endgroup$
      – LinAlg
      Mar 14 at 17:28















    2












    $begingroup$

    Consider a set $A$ of $100$ cars such that no $15$ are manufactured in the same country; we will show that there must be a subset of $15$ cars no three of which are from the same country.



    So consider any hypothetical particular subset $Ssubset A$.



    1) No country has contributed more than $14$ cars to $A$, since if it had, then choose $15$ cars among that country's produce, and you violated the definition of $A$.



    2) The countries contributing to $A$ can be divided into $n_1$ countries contributing just one car, and $n_2$ countries contributing between $2$ and $14$ cars. $n_1 + 14n_2 geq 100$.



    3) If $n_2>7$ we can choose $2$ cars from each of those countries for $S$, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 leq 7$.



    4) $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 98 = 2$. So if $n_2 = 7$ we can choose for $S$ two cars from each of those seven countries and one car from an $n_1$ country, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 < 7$.



    5) If $n_2 leq 6$ then $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 84 = 16$. Thus if $n_2 < 7$ we can form a set $S$ of more than $15$ cars no two of which are from the same country, again violating the rules.



    6) Therefore whenever we have a set of $100$ cars no $15$ of which are from the same country, we can form a set $S$ of $15$ cars no $3$ of which are from the same country.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      The first part of 4) up to "So" can be removed.
      $endgroup$
      – LinAlg
      Mar 14 at 17:28













    2












    2








    2





    $begingroup$

    Consider a set $A$ of $100$ cars such that no $15$ are manufactured in the same country; we will show that there must be a subset of $15$ cars no three of which are from the same country.



    So consider any hypothetical particular subset $Ssubset A$.



    1) No country has contributed more than $14$ cars to $A$, since if it had, then choose $15$ cars among that country's produce, and you violated the definition of $A$.



    2) The countries contributing to $A$ can be divided into $n_1$ countries contributing just one car, and $n_2$ countries contributing between $2$ and $14$ cars. $n_1 + 14n_2 geq 100$.



    3) If $n_2>7$ we can choose $2$ cars from each of those countries for $S$, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 leq 7$.



    4) $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 98 = 2$. So if $n_2 = 7$ we can choose for $S$ two cars from each of those seven countries and one car from an $n_1$ country, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 < 7$.



    5) If $n_2 leq 6$ then $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 84 = 16$. Thus if $n_2 < 7$ we can form a set $S$ of more than $15$ cars no two of which are from the same country, again violating the rules.



    6) Therefore whenever we have a set of $100$ cars no $15$ of which are from the same country, we can form a set $S$ of $15$ cars no $3$ of which are from the same country.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Consider a set $A$ of $100$ cars such that no $15$ are manufactured in the same country; we will show that there must be a subset of $15$ cars no three of which are from the same country.



    So consider any hypothetical particular subset $Ssubset A$.



    1) No country has contributed more than $14$ cars to $A$, since if it had, then choose $15$ cars among that country's produce, and you violated the definition of $A$.



    2) The countries contributing to $A$ can be divided into $n_1$ countries contributing just one car, and $n_2$ countries contributing between $2$ and $14$ cars. $n_1 + 14n_2 geq 100$.



    3) If $n_2>7$ we can choose $2$ cars from each of those countries for $S$, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 leq 7$.



    4) $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 98 = 2$. So if $n_2 = 7$ we can choose for $S$ two cars from each of those seven countries and one car from an $n_1$ country, and this violates the rule that every $S$ of 15 cars contains three or more cars from the same country. So $n_2 < 7$.



    5) If $n_2 leq 6$ then $n_1 geq 100 - 14 n_2 geq 100 - 84 = 16$. Thus if $n_2 < 7$ we can form a set $S$ of more than $15$ cars no two of which are from the same country, again violating the rules.



    6) Therefore whenever we have a set of $100$ cars no $15$ of which are from the same country, we can form a set $S$ of $15$ cars no $3$ of which are from the same country.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Mar 14 at 17:02









    Mark FischlerMark Fischler

    33.7k12552




    33.7k12552











    • $begingroup$
      The first part of 4) up to "So" can be removed.
      $endgroup$
      – LinAlg
      Mar 14 at 17:28
















    • $begingroup$
      The first part of 4) up to "So" can be removed.
      $endgroup$
      – LinAlg
      Mar 14 at 17:28















    $begingroup$
    The first part of 4) up to "So" can be removed.
    $endgroup$
    – LinAlg
    Mar 14 at 17:28




    $begingroup$
    The first part of 4) up to "So" can be removed.
    $endgroup$
    – LinAlg
    Mar 14 at 17:28











    1












    $begingroup$

    Let $n$ be the number of countries who made exactly one car appearing in the $100$.

    Let $m$ be the number of countries who made more than one car appearing in the $100$.



    Assume by way of contradiction that no country made $15$ cars. Then $$n+14mge 100,$$ because $n$ countries contribute $1$ car each and $m$ countries contribute at most $14$ each, and $$n+2mle 14,$$ for otherwise selecting one car from the $n$ countries and two from the $m$ countries would give $15$ cars with no three alike. Therefore,
    $$
    (n+14m)-(n+2m)ge 100-14implies 12mge 86implies mge lceil 86/12rceil = 8
    $$

    But this is a contradiction, because selecting two cars from eight of the countries with more than one car would give $16$ cars with no three alike.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      1












      $begingroup$

      Let $n$ be the number of countries who made exactly one car appearing in the $100$.

      Let $m$ be the number of countries who made more than one car appearing in the $100$.



      Assume by way of contradiction that no country made $15$ cars. Then $$n+14mge 100,$$ because $n$ countries contribute $1$ car each and $m$ countries contribute at most $14$ each, and $$n+2mle 14,$$ for otherwise selecting one car from the $n$ countries and two from the $m$ countries would give $15$ cars with no three alike. Therefore,
      $$
      (n+14m)-(n+2m)ge 100-14implies 12mge 86implies mge lceil 86/12rceil = 8
      $$

      But this is a contradiction, because selecting two cars from eight of the countries with more than one car would give $16$ cars with no three alike.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        Let $n$ be the number of countries who made exactly one car appearing in the $100$.

        Let $m$ be the number of countries who made more than one car appearing in the $100$.



        Assume by way of contradiction that no country made $15$ cars. Then $$n+14mge 100,$$ because $n$ countries contribute $1$ car each and $m$ countries contribute at most $14$ each, and $$n+2mle 14,$$ for otherwise selecting one car from the $n$ countries and two from the $m$ countries would give $15$ cars with no three alike. Therefore,
        $$
        (n+14m)-(n+2m)ge 100-14implies 12mge 86implies mge lceil 86/12rceil = 8
        $$

        But this is a contradiction, because selecting two cars from eight of the countries with more than one car would give $16$ cars with no three alike.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Let $n$ be the number of countries who made exactly one car appearing in the $100$.

        Let $m$ be the number of countries who made more than one car appearing in the $100$.



        Assume by way of contradiction that no country made $15$ cars. Then $$n+14mge 100,$$ because $n$ countries contribute $1$ car each and $m$ countries contribute at most $14$ each, and $$n+2mle 14,$$ for otherwise selecting one car from the $n$ countries and two from the $m$ countries would give $15$ cars with no three alike. Therefore,
        $$
        (n+14m)-(n+2m)ge 100-14implies 12mge 86implies mge lceil 86/12rceil = 8
        $$

        But this is a contradiction, because selecting two cars from eight of the countries with more than one car would give $16$ cars with no three alike.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Mar 14 at 17:03









        Mike EarnestMike Earnest

        25.5k22151




        25.5k22151





















            1












            $begingroup$

            Edit: See the very final paragraph for the same argument, but starting from the other end. Perhaps that will clarify.




            It is impossible for there to be 8 or more manufacturing countries. If there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country manufacture exactly 1 car. That means that if there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, the hypothesis ("in every set of 15 cars at least 3 were manufactured in the same country") would not be true.



            Thus, the maximum number of manufacturing countries is 7. If there are 7 or fewer manufacturing countries, then by the pigeonhole principle, if we are distributing 100 items among (at most) 7 "boxes" (the countries), then at least one box contains 15 or more items (since otherwise, you would have at most $14times 7 = 98$ items).




            In light of comments, let me clarify what this approach is doing.



            There are two ways to read the problem: either as describing a specific run of cars made by an unknown number of countries, or as describing a specific set of manufacturing countries that make runs of productions of cars.



            In essence: I'm showing that it is impossible to construct a counterexample by considering the number of countries involved. Other approaches show that it is impossible to have a counterexample by considering the cars involved. The two approaches amount to the same thing, because a potential counterexample would be "detected" by either approach.




            Sigh; apparently, this is creating way more controversy than it should. I do not dispute other approaches, but apparently some people are having issues with this approach.



            What the approach does is show that no counterexample can exist; that is, we cannot have a set of cars in which the premise holds but not the conclusion. I do this by attempting to build such a counterexample, but showing that none can be made. I attempt to build such a counterexample by considering the number of countries that would be included in such a counterexample.



            When I say "you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country make exactly one car", how does that fit into a potential counterexample? It tells you that if you have a particular run in which there are 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you would either trivially satisfy the conclusion, or else fail to satisfy the hypothesis; the situation described is the extreme case, where it is least clear that the hypothesis may fail (obviously, if we knew there are 15 or more manufacturing countries we would know the premise fails, etc). Any larger number of countries make it easier to construct a subset of 15 with no more than 2 from the same country. So in a search for a potential counterexample (with 100+ cars), we may restrict to the case in which there are no more than 7 manufacturing countries.



            It's just that I'm thinking about "building a counterexample" as countries pumping out cars to whatever specification, rather than "we have a bunch of cars, let's figure out who made them."



            Any potential counterexample would be detected by this approach. The fact that this approach does not detect a counterexample shows that no counterexample exists.



            Let me do the same argument, but starting with the "fewer countries" case first.



            If a counterexample set of 100 cars involved 7 or fewer countries, then we would get at most 98 cars (14 cars each for the at most 7 countries); so the counterexample involves 8 or more countries. On the other hand, if you had 8 or more countries, and exactly $kleq 7$ make at least 2 cars, and at least $15-2k$ make exactly one, you fail the assumption; so if we have exactly $k$ making at least 2 cars, and at most $14-2k$ make exactly $1$ car, then you still need to distribute $100- (2k) - (14-2k) = 86$ cars among the $k$ countries that make at least $2$ cars. If we are to avoid going over $14$ for any given country, we want $k$ to be as large as possible. The largest possible is $7$ with $1$ country making exactly 1 car, which is the case I opened with.



            I originally did the same thing, but did it in the other order, by first dismissing the counterexamples with 8 or more countries, then noting no counterexample can have 7 or fewer.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              "You could have each of the first $7$ countries manufacture two cars..." What if some of these countries only made one car appearing tin the set of 100? The cars are already made, you cannot have the countries manufacture two cars.
              $endgroup$
              – Mike Earnest
              Mar 14 at 17:11










            • $begingroup$
              @Mike Earnest: You are reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of cars; this collection has the following properties." I am reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of countries making cars. This collection has the following properties." The two approaches are, in essence, equivalent and reach the same conclusions.
              $endgroup$
              – Arturo Magidin
              Mar 14 at 17:15







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              It is not a matter of reading. The case when one of the first 7 countries has only 1 car made ruins your proof.
              $endgroup$
              – Vladislav
              Mar 14 at 17:20










            • $begingroup$
              @Vladislav: Are you objecting to me saying they are "the first 7", and not "some 7"? Surely not. The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want. You really are objecting to me treating the problem as describing an arbitrary run of production rather than a fixed set of cars. Is that not the case?
              $endgroup$
              – Arturo Magidin
              Mar 14 at 17:24






            • 3




              $begingroup$
              @ArturoMagidin "The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want." Sure you can, but you need to prove that there are 7 countries produced at least 2 cars. You didn't. And the problem doesn't describe the "run of production" anyhow, it makes statements about sets of cars and countries.
              $endgroup$
              – Vladislav
              Mar 14 at 17:32
















            1












            $begingroup$

            Edit: See the very final paragraph for the same argument, but starting from the other end. Perhaps that will clarify.




            It is impossible for there to be 8 or more manufacturing countries. If there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country manufacture exactly 1 car. That means that if there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, the hypothesis ("in every set of 15 cars at least 3 were manufactured in the same country") would not be true.



            Thus, the maximum number of manufacturing countries is 7. If there are 7 or fewer manufacturing countries, then by the pigeonhole principle, if we are distributing 100 items among (at most) 7 "boxes" (the countries), then at least one box contains 15 or more items (since otherwise, you would have at most $14times 7 = 98$ items).




            In light of comments, let me clarify what this approach is doing.



            There are two ways to read the problem: either as describing a specific run of cars made by an unknown number of countries, or as describing a specific set of manufacturing countries that make runs of productions of cars.



            In essence: I'm showing that it is impossible to construct a counterexample by considering the number of countries involved. Other approaches show that it is impossible to have a counterexample by considering the cars involved. The two approaches amount to the same thing, because a potential counterexample would be "detected" by either approach.




            Sigh; apparently, this is creating way more controversy than it should. I do not dispute other approaches, but apparently some people are having issues with this approach.



            What the approach does is show that no counterexample can exist; that is, we cannot have a set of cars in which the premise holds but not the conclusion. I do this by attempting to build such a counterexample, but showing that none can be made. I attempt to build such a counterexample by considering the number of countries that would be included in such a counterexample.



            When I say "you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country make exactly one car", how does that fit into a potential counterexample? It tells you that if you have a particular run in which there are 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you would either trivially satisfy the conclusion, or else fail to satisfy the hypothesis; the situation described is the extreme case, where it is least clear that the hypothesis may fail (obviously, if we knew there are 15 or more manufacturing countries we would know the premise fails, etc). Any larger number of countries make it easier to construct a subset of 15 with no more than 2 from the same country. So in a search for a potential counterexample (with 100+ cars), we may restrict to the case in which there are no more than 7 manufacturing countries.



            It's just that I'm thinking about "building a counterexample" as countries pumping out cars to whatever specification, rather than "we have a bunch of cars, let's figure out who made them."



            Any potential counterexample would be detected by this approach. The fact that this approach does not detect a counterexample shows that no counterexample exists.



            Let me do the same argument, but starting with the "fewer countries" case first.



            If a counterexample set of 100 cars involved 7 or fewer countries, then we would get at most 98 cars (14 cars each for the at most 7 countries); so the counterexample involves 8 or more countries. On the other hand, if you had 8 or more countries, and exactly $kleq 7$ make at least 2 cars, and at least $15-2k$ make exactly one, you fail the assumption; so if we have exactly $k$ making at least 2 cars, and at most $14-2k$ make exactly $1$ car, then you still need to distribute $100- (2k) - (14-2k) = 86$ cars among the $k$ countries that make at least $2$ cars. If we are to avoid going over $14$ for any given country, we want $k$ to be as large as possible. The largest possible is $7$ with $1$ country making exactly 1 car, which is the case I opened with.



            I originally did the same thing, but did it in the other order, by first dismissing the counterexamples with 8 or more countries, then noting no counterexample can have 7 or fewer.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              "You could have each of the first $7$ countries manufacture two cars..." What if some of these countries only made one car appearing tin the set of 100? The cars are already made, you cannot have the countries manufacture two cars.
              $endgroup$
              – Mike Earnest
              Mar 14 at 17:11










            • $begingroup$
              @Mike Earnest: You are reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of cars; this collection has the following properties." I am reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of countries making cars. This collection has the following properties." The two approaches are, in essence, equivalent and reach the same conclusions.
              $endgroup$
              – Arturo Magidin
              Mar 14 at 17:15







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              It is not a matter of reading. The case when one of the first 7 countries has only 1 car made ruins your proof.
              $endgroup$
              – Vladislav
              Mar 14 at 17:20










            • $begingroup$
              @Vladislav: Are you objecting to me saying they are "the first 7", and not "some 7"? Surely not. The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want. You really are objecting to me treating the problem as describing an arbitrary run of production rather than a fixed set of cars. Is that not the case?
              $endgroup$
              – Arturo Magidin
              Mar 14 at 17:24






            • 3




              $begingroup$
              @ArturoMagidin "The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want." Sure you can, but you need to prove that there are 7 countries produced at least 2 cars. You didn't. And the problem doesn't describe the "run of production" anyhow, it makes statements about sets of cars and countries.
              $endgroup$
              – Vladislav
              Mar 14 at 17:32














            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            Edit: See the very final paragraph for the same argument, but starting from the other end. Perhaps that will clarify.




            It is impossible for there to be 8 or more manufacturing countries. If there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country manufacture exactly 1 car. That means that if there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, the hypothesis ("in every set of 15 cars at least 3 were manufactured in the same country") would not be true.



            Thus, the maximum number of manufacturing countries is 7. If there are 7 or fewer manufacturing countries, then by the pigeonhole principle, if we are distributing 100 items among (at most) 7 "boxes" (the countries), then at least one box contains 15 or more items (since otherwise, you would have at most $14times 7 = 98$ items).




            In light of comments, let me clarify what this approach is doing.



            There are two ways to read the problem: either as describing a specific run of cars made by an unknown number of countries, or as describing a specific set of manufacturing countries that make runs of productions of cars.



            In essence: I'm showing that it is impossible to construct a counterexample by considering the number of countries involved. Other approaches show that it is impossible to have a counterexample by considering the cars involved. The two approaches amount to the same thing, because a potential counterexample would be "detected" by either approach.




            Sigh; apparently, this is creating way more controversy than it should. I do not dispute other approaches, but apparently some people are having issues with this approach.



            What the approach does is show that no counterexample can exist; that is, we cannot have a set of cars in which the premise holds but not the conclusion. I do this by attempting to build such a counterexample, but showing that none can be made. I attempt to build such a counterexample by considering the number of countries that would be included in such a counterexample.



            When I say "you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country make exactly one car", how does that fit into a potential counterexample? It tells you that if you have a particular run in which there are 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you would either trivially satisfy the conclusion, or else fail to satisfy the hypothesis; the situation described is the extreme case, where it is least clear that the hypothesis may fail (obviously, if we knew there are 15 or more manufacturing countries we would know the premise fails, etc). Any larger number of countries make it easier to construct a subset of 15 with no more than 2 from the same country. So in a search for a potential counterexample (with 100+ cars), we may restrict to the case in which there are no more than 7 manufacturing countries.



            It's just that I'm thinking about "building a counterexample" as countries pumping out cars to whatever specification, rather than "we have a bunch of cars, let's figure out who made them."



            Any potential counterexample would be detected by this approach. The fact that this approach does not detect a counterexample shows that no counterexample exists.



            Let me do the same argument, but starting with the "fewer countries" case first.



            If a counterexample set of 100 cars involved 7 or fewer countries, then we would get at most 98 cars (14 cars each for the at most 7 countries); so the counterexample involves 8 or more countries. On the other hand, if you had 8 or more countries, and exactly $kleq 7$ make at least 2 cars, and at least $15-2k$ make exactly one, you fail the assumption; so if we have exactly $k$ making at least 2 cars, and at most $14-2k$ make exactly $1$ car, then you still need to distribute $100- (2k) - (14-2k) = 86$ cars among the $k$ countries that make at least $2$ cars. If we are to avoid going over $14$ for any given country, we want $k$ to be as large as possible. The largest possible is $7$ with $1$ country making exactly 1 car, which is the case I opened with.



            I originally did the same thing, but did it in the other order, by first dismissing the counterexamples with 8 or more countries, then noting no counterexample can have 7 or fewer.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            Edit: See the very final paragraph for the same argument, but starting from the other end. Perhaps that will clarify.




            It is impossible for there to be 8 or more manufacturing countries. If there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country manufacture exactly 1 car. That means that if there were 8 or more manufacturing countries, the hypothesis ("in every set of 15 cars at least 3 were manufactured in the same country") would not be true.



            Thus, the maximum number of manufacturing countries is 7. If there are 7 or fewer manufacturing countries, then by the pigeonhole principle, if we are distributing 100 items among (at most) 7 "boxes" (the countries), then at least one box contains 15 or more items (since otherwise, you would have at most $14times 7 = 98$ items).




            In light of comments, let me clarify what this approach is doing.



            There are two ways to read the problem: either as describing a specific run of cars made by an unknown number of countries, or as describing a specific set of manufacturing countries that make runs of productions of cars.



            In essence: I'm showing that it is impossible to construct a counterexample by considering the number of countries involved. Other approaches show that it is impossible to have a counterexample by considering the cars involved. The two approaches amount to the same thing, because a potential counterexample would be "detected" by either approach.




            Sigh; apparently, this is creating way more controversy than it should. I do not dispute other approaches, but apparently some people are having issues with this approach.



            What the approach does is show that no counterexample can exist; that is, we cannot have a set of cars in which the premise holds but not the conclusion. I do this by attempting to build such a counterexample, but showing that none can be made. I attempt to build such a counterexample by considering the number of countries that would be included in such a counterexample.



            When I say "you could have a set of 15 cars in which no country made 3 or more cars: you could have each of the first 7 countries manufacture two of the cars, and the final country make exactly one car", how does that fit into a potential counterexample? It tells you that if you have a particular run in which there are 8 or more manufacturing countries, then you would either trivially satisfy the conclusion, or else fail to satisfy the hypothesis; the situation described is the extreme case, where it is least clear that the hypothesis may fail (obviously, if we knew there are 15 or more manufacturing countries we would know the premise fails, etc). Any larger number of countries make it easier to construct a subset of 15 with no more than 2 from the same country. So in a search for a potential counterexample (with 100+ cars), we may restrict to the case in which there are no more than 7 manufacturing countries.



            It's just that I'm thinking about "building a counterexample" as countries pumping out cars to whatever specification, rather than "we have a bunch of cars, let's figure out who made them."



            Any potential counterexample would be detected by this approach. The fact that this approach does not detect a counterexample shows that no counterexample exists.



            Let me do the same argument, but starting with the "fewer countries" case first.



            If a counterexample set of 100 cars involved 7 or fewer countries, then we would get at most 98 cars (14 cars each for the at most 7 countries); so the counterexample involves 8 or more countries. On the other hand, if you had 8 or more countries, and exactly $kleq 7$ make at least 2 cars, and at least $15-2k$ make exactly one, you fail the assumption; so if we have exactly $k$ making at least 2 cars, and at most $14-2k$ make exactly $1$ car, then you still need to distribute $100- (2k) - (14-2k) = 86$ cars among the $k$ countries that make at least $2$ cars. If we are to avoid going over $14$ for any given country, we want $k$ to be as large as possible. The largest possible is $7$ with $1$ country making exactly 1 car, which is the case I opened with.



            I originally did the same thing, but did it in the other order, by first dismissing the counterexamples with 8 or more countries, then noting no counterexample can have 7 or fewer.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Mar 14 at 19:30

























            answered Mar 14 at 17:07









            Arturo MagidinArturo Magidin

            265k34590919




            265k34590919







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              "You could have each of the first $7$ countries manufacture two cars..." What if some of these countries only made one car appearing tin the set of 100? The cars are already made, you cannot have the countries manufacture two cars.
              $endgroup$
              – Mike Earnest
              Mar 14 at 17:11










            • $begingroup$
              @Mike Earnest: You are reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of cars; this collection has the following properties." I am reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of countries making cars. This collection has the following properties." The two approaches are, in essence, equivalent and reach the same conclusions.
              $endgroup$
              – Arturo Magidin
              Mar 14 at 17:15







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              It is not a matter of reading. The case when one of the first 7 countries has only 1 car made ruins your proof.
              $endgroup$
              – Vladislav
              Mar 14 at 17:20










            • $begingroup$
              @Vladislav: Are you objecting to me saying they are "the first 7", and not "some 7"? Surely not. The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want. You really are objecting to me treating the problem as describing an arbitrary run of production rather than a fixed set of cars. Is that not the case?
              $endgroup$
              – Arturo Magidin
              Mar 14 at 17:24






            • 3




              $begingroup$
              @ArturoMagidin "The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want." Sure you can, but you need to prove that there are 7 countries produced at least 2 cars. You didn't. And the problem doesn't describe the "run of production" anyhow, it makes statements about sets of cars and countries.
              $endgroup$
              – Vladislav
              Mar 14 at 17:32













            • 2




              $begingroup$
              "You could have each of the first $7$ countries manufacture two cars..." What if some of these countries only made one car appearing tin the set of 100? The cars are already made, you cannot have the countries manufacture two cars.
              $endgroup$
              – Mike Earnest
              Mar 14 at 17:11










            • $begingroup$
              @Mike Earnest: You are reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of cars; this collection has the following properties." I am reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of countries making cars. This collection has the following properties." The two approaches are, in essence, equivalent and reach the same conclusions.
              $endgroup$
              – Arturo Magidin
              Mar 14 at 17:15







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              It is not a matter of reading. The case when one of the first 7 countries has only 1 car made ruins your proof.
              $endgroup$
              – Vladislav
              Mar 14 at 17:20










            • $begingroup$
              @Vladislav: Are you objecting to me saying they are "the first 7", and not "some 7"? Surely not. The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want. You really are objecting to me treating the problem as describing an arbitrary run of production rather than a fixed set of cars. Is that not the case?
              $endgroup$
              – Arturo Magidin
              Mar 14 at 17:24






            • 3




              $begingroup$
              @ArturoMagidin "The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want." Sure you can, but you need to prove that there are 7 countries produced at least 2 cars. You didn't. And the problem doesn't describe the "run of production" anyhow, it makes statements about sets of cars and countries.
              $endgroup$
              – Vladislav
              Mar 14 at 17:32








            2




            2




            $begingroup$
            "You could have each of the first $7$ countries manufacture two cars..." What if some of these countries only made one car appearing tin the set of 100? The cars are already made, you cannot have the countries manufacture two cars.
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Earnest
            Mar 14 at 17:11




            $begingroup$
            "You could have each of the first $7$ countries manufacture two cars..." What if some of these countries only made one car appearing tin the set of 100? The cars are already made, you cannot have the countries manufacture two cars.
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Earnest
            Mar 14 at 17:11












            $begingroup$
            @Mike Earnest: You are reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of cars; this collection has the following properties." I am reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of countries making cars. This collection has the following properties." The two approaches are, in essence, equivalent and reach the same conclusions.
            $endgroup$
            – Arturo Magidin
            Mar 14 at 17:15





            $begingroup$
            @Mike Earnest: You are reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of cars; this collection has the following properties." I am reading the problem as "There is a collection of an unknown number of countries making cars. This collection has the following properties." The two approaches are, in essence, equivalent and reach the same conclusions.
            $endgroup$
            – Arturo Magidin
            Mar 14 at 17:15





            2




            2




            $begingroup$
            It is not a matter of reading. The case when one of the first 7 countries has only 1 car made ruins your proof.
            $endgroup$
            – Vladislav
            Mar 14 at 17:20




            $begingroup$
            It is not a matter of reading. The case when one of the first 7 countries has only 1 car made ruins your proof.
            $endgroup$
            – Vladislav
            Mar 14 at 17:20












            $begingroup$
            @Vladislav: Are you objecting to me saying they are "the first 7", and not "some 7"? Surely not. The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want. You really are objecting to me treating the problem as describing an arbitrary run of production rather than a fixed set of cars. Is that not the case?
            $endgroup$
            – Arturo Magidin
            Mar 14 at 17:24




            $begingroup$
            @Vladislav: Are you objecting to me saying they are "the first 7", and not "some 7"? Surely not. The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want. You really are objecting to me treating the problem as describing an arbitrary run of production rather than a fixed set of cars. Is that not the case?
            $endgroup$
            – Arturo Magidin
            Mar 14 at 17:24




            3




            3




            $begingroup$
            @ArturoMagidin "The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want." Sure you can, but you need to prove that there are 7 countries produced at least 2 cars. You didn't. And the problem doesn't describe the "run of production" anyhow, it makes statements about sets of cars and countries.
            $endgroup$
            – Vladislav
            Mar 14 at 17:32





            $begingroup$
            @ArturoMagidin "The countries are interchangeable and I can order them any way I want." Sure you can, but you need to prove that there are 7 countries produced at least 2 cars. You didn't. And the problem doesn't describe the "run of production" anyhow, it makes statements about sets of cars and countries.
            $endgroup$
            – Vladislav
            Mar 14 at 17:32


















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