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Dimensions of paper needed to roll a cone (Updated with clarifications)


Calulating length of cable running along exterior of an axleArea of equilateral triangle around circles placed in equilateral triangleProjecting a surface segment of a cone onto a 2D plane?Roll Weight calculationWas this a correct approach? Is there a simpler one?Dihedral Calculation.What 'uniform' shapes can be used to build an approximated spherical object?Find diameter of partially filled coneHow to label the intersection of edges in arbitrary four-sided shapes?Is the right intersection of an oblique circular cone an ellipse?













2












$begingroup$


I'm looking for a way to calculate the dimensions of a piece of paper needed to roll up into a cone shape. Please consider the following diagram I created (nothing is drawn to scale):



enter image description here



In this example, I'm trying to create a cone shape, that is 100 mm tall and has a top diameter of 3 mm, and a bottom diameter of 12 mm (FIG 1). FIG 2 shows a piece of paper that is 0.1 mm thick shaped like what I would expect the final piece to look like. However, sides A and C would be much longer than illustrated.



Essentially, what I need is a way to figure out the lengths of sides A, B, and C in FIG 2, such that when the paper is rolled tightly, I could achieve the cone in FIG 1.



NOTE: I'm not trying to just create a "shell" of the cone as shown in FIG 3. I would like to roll the paper shape tightly into the cone to provide a solid structure (as shown in FIG 4).




EDIT: I'm adding some clarification. I did a "real world" example to try to illustrate what I'm trying to accomplish.



  1. I cut out a shape similar to the one is FIG 2 above.
    image 1


  2. I roll it as shown here.
    image 2


  3. This is what the cone looks like when done rolling.
    image 3


  4. The top of the cone shows a diameter of 2.1 mm
    image 4


  5. And the bottom of the cone shows a diameter of 3.4 mm
    image 5


I hope this makes things more clear.



EDIT 2: Maybe the numbers in the initial example are just not realistic. So how about something like 2 mm for the top diameter and 5 mm for the bottom one.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    In what direction will you be rolling. Also: what have you tried?
    $endgroup$
    – clathratus
    Mar 20 at 20:04










  • $begingroup$
    There are several problems with your description. First of all, to get a conic surface you must fold a circular sector, and not a trapezoid as in your picture. Moreover, you cannot get a uniformly tight structure: to get 12 mm at the base you should roll 120 layers of paper, but for 3 mm on top you need only 30 layers.
    $endgroup$
    – Aretino
    Mar 20 at 21:26










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the responses. @ Aretino: I added a "real-world" example to show what I'm trying to accomplish.
    $endgroup$
    – Alarik
    Mar 20 at 21:52















2












$begingroup$


I'm looking for a way to calculate the dimensions of a piece of paper needed to roll up into a cone shape. Please consider the following diagram I created (nothing is drawn to scale):



enter image description here



In this example, I'm trying to create a cone shape, that is 100 mm tall and has a top diameter of 3 mm, and a bottom diameter of 12 mm (FIG 1). FIG 2 shows a piece of paper that is 0.1 mm thick shaped like what I would expect the final piece to look like. However, sides A and C would be much longer than illustrated.



Essentially, what I need is a way to figure out the lengths of sides A, B, and C in FIG 2, such that when the paper is rolled tightly, I could achieve the cone in FIG 1.



NOTE: I'm not trying to just create a "shell" of the cone as shown in FIG 3. I would like to roll the paper shape tightly into the cone to provide a solid structure (as shown in FIG 4).




EDIT: I'm adding some clarification. I did a "real world" example to try to illustrate what I'm trying to accomplish.



  1. I cut out a shape similar to the one is FIG 2 above.
    image 1


  2. I roll it as shown here.
    image 2


  3. This is what the cone looks like when done rolling.
    image 3


  4. The top of the cone shows a diameter of 2.1 mm
    image 4


  5. And the bottom of the cone shows a diameter of 3.4 mm
    image 5


I hope this makes things more clear.



EDIT 2: Maybe the numbers in the initial example are just not realistic. So how about something like 2 mm for the top diameter and 5 mm for the bottom one.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    In what direction will you be rolling. Also: what have you tried?
    $endgroup$
    – clathratus
    Mar 20 at 20:04










  • $begingroup$
    There are several problems with your description. First of all, to get a conic surface you must fold a circular sector, and not a trapezoid as in your picture. Moreover, you cannot get a uniformly tight structure: to get 12 mm at the base you should roll 120 layers of paper, but for 3 mm on top you need only 30 layers.
    $endgroup$
    – Aretino
    Mar 20 at 21:26










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the responses. @ Aretino: I added a "real-world" example to show what I'm trying to accomplish.
    $endgroup$
    – Alarik
    Mar 20 at 21:52













2












2








2


0



$begingroup$


I'm looking for a way to calculate the dimensions of a piece of paper needed to roll up into a cone shape. Please consider the following diagram I created (nothing is drawn to scale):



enter image description here



In this example, I'm trying to create a cone shape, that is 100 mm tall and has a top diameter of 3 mm, and a bottom diameter of 12 mm (FIG 1). FIG 2 shows a piece of paper that is 0.1 mm thick shaped like what I would expect the final piece to look like. However, sides A and C would be much longer than illustrated.



Essentially, what I need is a way to figure out the lengths of sides A, B, and C in FIG 2, such that when the paper is rolled tightly, I could achieve the cone in FIG 1.



NOTE: I'm not trying to just create a "shell" of the cone as shown in FIG 3. I would like to roll the paper shape tightly into the cone to provide a solid structure (as shown in FIG 4).




EDIT: I'm adding some clarification. I did a "real world" example to try to illustrate what I'm trying to accomplish.



  1. I cut out a shape similar to the one is FIG 2 above.
    image 1


  2. I roll it as shown here.
    image 2


  3. This is what the cone looks like when done rolling.
    image 3


  4. The top of the cone shows a diameter of 2.1 mm
    image 4


  5. And the bottom of the cone shows a diameter of 3.4 mm
    image 5


I hope this makes things more clear.



EDIT 2: Maybe the numbers in the initial example are just not realistic. So how about something like 2 mm for the top diameter and 5 mm for the bottom one.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I'm looking for a way to calculate the dimensions of a piece of paper needed to roll up into a cone shape. Please consider the following diagram I created (nothing is drawn to scale):



enter image description here



In this example, I'm trying to create a cone shape, that is 100 mm tall and has a top diameter of 3 mm, and a bottom diameter of 12 mm (FIG 1). FIG 2 shows a piece of paper that is 0.1 mm thick shaped like what I would expect the final piece to look like. However, sides A and C would be much longer than illustrated.



Essentially, what I need is a way to figure out the lengths of sides A, B, and C in FIG 2, such that when the paper is rolled tightly, I could achieve the cone in FIG 1.



NOTE: I'm not trying to just create a "shell" of the cone as shown in FIG 3. I would like to roll the paper shape tightly into the cone to provide a solid structure (as shown in FIG 4).




EDIT: I'm adding some clarification. I did a "real world" example to try to illustrate what I'm trying to accomplish.



  1. I cut out a shape similar to the one is FIG 2 above.
    image 1


  2. I roll it as shown here.
    image 2


  3. This is what the cone looks like when done rolling.
    image 3


  4. The top of the cone shows a diameter of 2.1 mm
    image 4


  5. And the bottom of the cone shows a diameter of 3.4 mm
    image 5


I hope this makes things more clear.



EDIT 2: Maybe the numbers in the initial example are just not realistic. So how about something like 2 mm for the top diameter and 5 mm for the bottom one.







geometry






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 20 at 22:48







Alarik

















asked Mar 20 at 19:33









AlarikAlarik

133




133











  • $begingroup$
    In what direction will you be rolling. Also: what have you tried?
    $endgroup$
    – clathratus
    Mar 20 at 20:04










  • $begingroup$
    There are several problems with your description. First of all, to get a conic surface you must fold a circular sector, and not a trapezoid as in your picture. Moreover, you cannot get a uniformly tight structure: to get 12 mm at the base you should roll 120 layers of paper, but for 3 mm on top you need only 30 layers.
    $endgroup$
    – Aretino
    Mar 20 at 21:26










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the responses. @ Aretino: I added a "real-world" example to show what I'm trying to accomplish.
    $endgroup$
    – Alarik
    Mar 20 at 21:52
















  • $begingroup$
    In what direction will you be rolling. Also: what have you tried?
    $endgroup$
    – clathratus
    Mar 20 at 20:04










  • $begingroup$
    There are several problems with your description. First of all, to get a conic surface you must fold a circular sector, and not a trapezoid as in your picture. Moreover, you cannot get a uniformly tight structure: to get 12 mm at the base you should roll 120 layers of paper, but for 3 mm on top you need only 30 layers.
    $endgroup$
    – Aretino
    Mar 20 at 21:26










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the responses. @ Aretino: I added a "real-world" example to show what I'm trying to accomplish.
    $endgroup$
    – Alarik
    Mar 20 at 21:52















$begingroup$
In what direction will you be rolling. Also: what have you tried?
$endgroup$
– clathratus
Mar 20 at 20:04




$begingroup$
In what direction will you be rolling. Also: what have you tried?
$endgroup$
– clathratus
Mar 20 at 20:04












$begingroup$
There are several problems with your description. First of all, to get a conic surface you must fold a circular sector, and not a trapezoid as in your picture. Moreover, you cannot get a uniformly tight structure: to get 12 mm at the base you should roll 120 layers of paper, but for 3 mm on top you need only 30 layers.
$endgroup$
– Aretino
Mar 20 at 21:26




$begingroup$
There are several problems with your description. First of all, to get a conic surface you must fold a circular sector, and not a trapezoid as in your picture. Moreover, you cannot get a uniformly tight structure: to get 12 mm at the base you should roll 120 layers of paper, but for 3 mm on top you need only 30 layers.
$endgroup$
– Aretino
Mar 20 at 21:26












$begingroup$
Thank you for the responses. @ Aretino: I added a "real-world" example to show what I'm trying to accomplish.
$endgroup$
– Alarik
Mar 20 at 21:52




$begingroup$
Thank you for the responses. @ Aretino: I added a "real-world" example to show what I'm trying to accomplish.
$endgroup$
– Alarik
Mar 20 at 21:52










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

If we slightly simplify the situation, we can say that at the top (and at the bottom) the paper is arranged in concentric circles. If $t=0.1$mm is the thickness of the paper, we get a radius $r_n = n cdot t$ for the $n$th circle. The circumference of the $n$th circle is $2 pi r_n$. The total length of the paper (for $N$ circles) is the sum of the circumferences
$$
l = sum_n=1^N 2 pi r_n = 2 pi cdot t cdot sum_n=1^N n = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracN(N+1)2
$$

and the diameter is $d = 2 N t$.



So if you want a diameter $d$, then you need $N=fracd2t$ many layers resulting in a length of
$$l = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracfracd2tleft(fracd2t+1right)2 = pi cdot fracd2 left(fracd2t+1right).$$



According to the pictures in your clarification, $A$ and $C$ are independent of each other, thus the above calculation can be done seperatly for the top and the bottom.



At the top, you want the diameter to be $d=3$mm, resulting in a length of $Acong 65$mm.
At the bottom, you want the diameter to be $d=12$mm, thus $C cong 1100$mm would do the trick.



However, rolling up a meter of paper perfectly tight is probably not physically feasible, thus the calculation might not agree with experimental results.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The sum is $sum_n=1^N n=N(N+1)/2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Aretino
    Mar 21 at 8:16











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1 Answer
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active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1












$begingroup$

If we slightly simplify the situation, we can say that at the top (and at the bottom) the paper is arranged in concentric circles. If $t=0.1$mm is the thickness of the paper, we get a radius $r_n = n cdot t$ for the $n$th circle. The circumference of the $n$th circle is $2 pi r_n$. The total length of the paper (for $N$ circles) is the sum of the circumferences
$$
l = sum_n=1^N 2 pi r_n = 2 pi cdot t cdot sum_n=1^N n = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracN(N+1)2
$$

and the diameter is $d = 2 N t$.



So if you want a diameter $d$, then you need $N=fracd2t$ many layers resulting in a length of
$$l = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracfracd2tleft(fracd2t+1right)2 = pi cdot fracd2 left(fracd2t+1right).$$



According to the pictures in your clarification, $A$ and $C$ are independent of each other, thus the above calculation can be done seperatly for the top and the bottom.



At the top, you want the diameter to be $d=3$mm, resulting in a length of $Acong 65$mm.
At the bottom, you want the diameter to be $d=12$mm, thus $C cong 1100$mm would do the trick.



However, rolling up a meter of paper perfectly tight is probably not physically feasible, thus the calculation might not agree with experimental results.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The sum is $sum_n=1^N n=N(N+1)/2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Aretino
    Mar 21 at 8:16















1












$begingroup$

If we slightly simplify the situation, we can say that at the top (and at the bottom) the paper is arranged in concentric circles. If $t=0.1$mm is the thickness of the paper, we get a radius $r_n = n cdot t$ for the $n$th circle. The circumference of the $n$th circle is $2 pi r_n$. The total length of the paper (for $N$ circles) is the sum of the circumferences
$$
l = sum_n=1^N 2 pi r_n = 2 pi cdot t cdot sum_n=1^N n = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracN(N+1)2
$$

and the diameter is $d = 2 N t$.



So if you want a diameter $d$, then you need $N=fracd2t$ many layers resulting in a length of
$$l = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracfracd2tleft(fracd2t+1right)2 = pi cdot fracd2 left(fracd2t+1right).$$



According to the pictures in your clarification, $A$ and $C$ are independent of each other, thus the above calculation can be done seperatly for the top and the bottom.



At the top, you want the diameter to be $d=3$mm, resulting in a length of $Acong 65$mm.
At the bottom, you want the diameter to be $d=12$mm, thus $C cong 1100$mm would do the trick.



However, rolling up a meter of paper perfectly tight is probably not physically feasible, thus the calculation might not agree with experimental results.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The sum is $sum_n=1^N n=N(N+1)/2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Aretino
    Mar 21 at 8:16













1












1








1





$begingroup$

If we slightly simplify the situation, we can say that at the top (and at the bottom) the paper is arranged in concentric circles. If $t=0.1$mm is the thickness of the paper, we get a radius $r_n = n cdot t$ for the $n$th circle. The circumference of the $n$th circle is $2 pi r_n$. The total length of the paper (for $N$ circles) is the sum of the circumferences
$$
l = sum_n=1^N 2 pi r_n = 2 pi cdot t cdot sum_n=1^N n = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracN(N+1)2
$$

and the diameter is $d = 2 N t$.



So if you want a diameter $d$, then you need $N=fracd2t$ many layers resulting in a length of
$$l = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracfracd2tleft(fracd2t+1right)2 = pi cdot fracd2 left(fracd2t+1right).$$



According to the pictures in your clarification, $A$ and $C$ are independent of each other, thus the above calculation can be done seperatly for the top and the bottom.



At the top, you want the diameter to be $d=3$mm, resulting in a length of $Acong 65$mm.
At the bottom, you want the diameter to be $d=12$mm, thus $C cong 1100$mm would do the trick.



However, rolling up a meter of paper perfectly tight is probably not physically feasible, thus the calculation might not agree with experimental results.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



If we slightly simplify the situation, we can say that at the top (and at the bottom) the paper is arranged in concentric circles. If $t=0.1$mm is the thickness of the paper, we get a radius $r_n = n cdot t$ for the $n$th circle. The circumference of the $n$th circle is $2 pi r_n$. The total length of the paper (for $N$ circles) is the sum of the circumferences
$$
l = sum_n=1^N 2 pi r_n = 2 pi cdot t cdot sum_n=1^N n = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracN(N+1)2
$$

and the diameter is $d = 2 N t$.



So if you want a diameter $d$, then you need $N=fracd2t$ many layers resulting in a length of
$$l = 2 pi cdot t cdot fracfracd2tleft(fracd2t+1right)2 = pi cdot fracd2 left(fracd2t+1right).$$



According to the pictures in your clarification, $A$ and $C$ are independent of each other, thus the above calculation can be done seperatly for the top and the bottom.



At the top, you want the diameter to be $d=3$mm, resulting in a length of $Acong 65$mm.
At the bottom, you want the diameter to be $d=12$mm, thus $C cong 1100$mm would do the trick.



However, rolling up a meter of paper perfectly tight is probably not physically feasible, thus the calculation might not agree with experimental results.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Mar 21 at 11:54

























answered Mar 21 at 1:03









StrichcoderStrichcoder

1866




1866







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The sum is $sum_n=1^N n=N(N+1)/2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Aretino
    Mar 21 at 8:16












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The sum is $sum_n=1^N n=N(N+1)/2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Aretino
    Mar 21 at 8:16







1




1




$begingroup$
The sum is $sum_n=1^N n=N(N+1)/2$.
$endgroup$
– Aretino
Mar 21 at 8:16




$begingroup$
The sum is $sum_n=1^N n=N(N+1)/2$.
$endgroup$
– Aretino
Mar 21 at 8:16

















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Kathakali Contents Etymology and nomenclature History Repertoire Songs and musical instruments Traditional plays Styles: Sampradayam Training centers and awards Relationship to other dance forms See also Notes References External links Navigation menueThe Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-MSouth Asian Folklore: An EncyclopediaRoutledge International Encyclopedia of Women: Global Women's Issues and KnowledgeKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlayKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlayKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play10.1353/atj.2005.0004The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-MEncyclopedia of HinduismKathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to PlaySonic Liturgy: Ritual and Music in Hindu Tradition"The Mirror of Gesture"Kathakali Dance-drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play"Kathakali"Indian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceMedieval Indian Literature: An AnthologyThe Oxford Companion to Indian TheatreSouth Asian Folklore: An Encyclopedia : Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri LankaThe Rise of Performance Studies: Rethinking Richard Schechner's Broad SpectrumIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceModern Asian Theatre and Performance 1900-2000Critical Theory and PerformanceBetween Theater and AnthropologyKathakali603847011Indian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceIndian Theatre: Traditions of PerformanceBetween Theater and AnthropologyBetween Theater and AnthropologyNambeesan Smaraka AwardsArchivedThe Cambridge Guide to TheatreRoutledge International Encyclopedia of Women: Global Women's Issues and KnowledgeThe Garland Encyclopedia of World Music: South Asia : the Indian subcontinentThe Ethos of Noh: Actors and Their Art10.2307/1145740By Means of Performance: Intercultural Studies of Theatre and Ritual10.1017/s204912550000100xReconceiving the Renaissance: A Critical ReaderPerformance TheoryListening to Theatre: The Aural Dimension of Beijing Opera10.2307/1146013Kathakali: The Art of the Non-WorldlyOn KathakaliKathakali, the dance theatreThe Kathakali Complex: Performance & StructureKathakali Dance-Drama: Where Gods and Demons Come to Play10.1093/obo/9780195399318-0071Drama and Ritual of Early Hinduism"In the Shadow of Hollywood Orientalism: Authentic East Indian Dancing"10.1080/08949460490274013Sanskrit Play Production in Ancient IndiaIndian Music: History and StructureBharata, the Nāṭyaśāstra233639306Table of Contents2238067286469807Dance In Indian Painting10.2307/32047833204783Kathakali Dance-Theatre: A Visual Narrative of Sacred Indian MimeIndian Classical Dance: The Renaissance and BeyondKathakali: an indigenous art-form of Keralaeee

Method to test if a number is a perfect power? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Detecting perfect squares faster than by extracting square rooteffective way to get the integer sequence A181392 from oeisA rarely mentioned fact about perfect powersHow many numbers such $n$ are there that $n<100,lfloorsqrtn rfloor mid n$Check perfect squareness by modulo division against multiple basesFor what pair of integers $(a,b)$ is $3^a + 7^b$ a perfect square.Do there exist any positive integers $n$ such that $lfloore^nrfloor$ is a perfect power? What is the probability that one exists?finding perfect power factors of an integerProve that the sequence contains a perfect square for any natural number $m $ in the domain of $f$ .Counting Perfect Powers