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Interpreting Volterra Series Correctly



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWhat is $int fracdelta Fdelta u fracdelta Gdelta v , dx ; $?Doubt in the derivation of the field Euler-Lagrange equationsTwo Approaches Two Different Solutions: Optimal Controls vs. Different MethodFunctional derivative: How to obtain $delta F=int fracdelta Fdelta fdelta f dx$?Functional Taylor seriesDoes the chain rule need to account for derivatives as test functions?Functional derivative in QFTFunctional derivative of a functional that depends on antiderivativeDo variations obey the product rule?Euler-Lagrange equation in polar or cylindrical coordinates










0












$begingroup$


I was reading this and found on page 6 was a description of a generalization of Taylor series to linear functionals. Reproduced below as



$$ F[phi + lambda] = sum_n=0^infty left[frac1n! intint...int fracdelta ^n F[phi] delta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) ... delta phi(x^n-1) dx^0 dx^1 ... dx^n-1
right] $$



I don't understand exactly what the term $$ fracdelta ^n F[phi] delta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) ... delta phi(x^n-1) $$



Means.



And let me be extremely concrete. Consider an operator $F: phi rightarrow phi + x^2phi'$, quite literally what this means is that $F: (mathbbR rightarrow mathbbR) rightarrow (mathbbR rightarrow mathbbR) $



And $F:= phi(x) rightarrow phi(x) + x^2 fracddxleft[ phi(x)right] $ Can be viewed as an explicit "form".



So when we compute $$fracdelta Fdelta phi(x)$$



Everything makes sense (since the argument of the $phi$ we are differentiating w.r.t matches the argument of the $phi$ in the original function and the corresponding $fracddx$ is compatible with the $x$ arguments in both cases.) And we use our typical euler lagrange equations.



$$ fracdelta Fdelta phi(x) = fracpartial Fpartial phi(x) - fracddx left[ fracpartial Fpartial left( fracddx[phi(x)] right) ...right] = 1+2x $$



If you make an expression like



$$fracdelta Fdelta phi(x^0)$$



Now it's unclear what you mean, but we can guess. Let us substitute every instance of the string "$x$" with "$x^0$" in $F$ and then this statement can be still well defined. And we conclude that it is equal to



$$ 1 + 2x^0 $$



Now consider:



$$fracdelta^2 Fdelta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) $$



This is now getting us into bad territory. Not only do we not have a compatible variable $x$ in either of arguments but we cannot implicitly "guess" what string substitution needs to be made here since any global level string subtitution will render the other derivative to 0. So I am completely lost as to what this could mean.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    0












    $begingroup$


    I was reading this and found on page 6 was a description of a generalization of Taylor series to linear functionals. Reproduced below as



    $$ F[phi + lambda] = sum_n=0^infty left[frac1n! intint...int fracdelta ^n F[phi] delta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) ... delta phi(x^n-1) dx^0 dx^1 ... dx^n-1
    right] $$



    I don't understand exactly what the term $$ fracdelta ^n F[phi] delta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) ... delta phi(x^n-1) $$



    Means.



    And let me be extremely concrete. Consider an operator $F: phi rightarrow phi + x^2phi'$, quite literally what this means is that $F: (mathbbR rightarrow mathbbR) rightarrow (mathbbR rightarrow mathbbR) $



    And $F:= phi(x) rightarrow phi(x) + x^2 fracddxleft[ phi(x)right] $ Can be viewed as an explicit "form".



    So when we compute $$fracdelta Fdelta phi(x)$$



    Everything makes sense (since the argument of the $phi$ we are differentiating w.r.t matches the argument of the $phi$ in the original function and the corresponding $fracddx$ is compatible with the $x$ arguments in both cases.) And we use our typical euler lagrange equations.



    $$ fracdelta Fdelta phi(x) = fracpartial Fpartial phi(x) - fracddx left[ fracpartial Fpartial left( fracddx[phi(x)] right) ...right] = 1+2x $$



    If you make an expression like



    $$fracdelta Fdelta phi(x^0)$$



    Now it's unclear what you mean, but we can guess. Let us substitute every instance of the string "$x$" with "$x^0$" in $F$ and then this statement can be still well defined. And we conclude that it is equal to



    $$ 1 + 2x^0 $$



    Now consider:



    $$fracdelta^2 Fdelta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) $$



    This is now getting us into bad territory. Not only do we not have a compatible variable $x$ in either of arguments but we cannot implicitly "guess" what string substitution needs to be made here since any global level string subtitution will render the other derivative to 0. So I am completely lost as to what this could mean.










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      0












      0








      0





      $begingroup$


      I was reading this and found on page 6 was a description of a generalization of Taylor series to linear functionals. Reproduced below as



      $$ F[phi + lambda] = sum_n=0^infty left[frac1n! intint...int fracdelta ^n F[phi] delta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) ... delta phi(x^n-1) dx^0 dx^1 ... dx^n-1
      right] $$



      I don't understand exactly what the term $$ fracdelta ^n F[phi] delta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) ... delta phi(x^n-1) $$



      Means.



      And let me be extremely concrete. Consider an operator $F: phi rightarrow phi + x^2phi'$, quite literally what this means is that $F: (mathbbR rightarrow mathbbR) rightarrow (mathbbR rightarrow mathbbR) $



      And $F:= phi(x) rightarrow phi(x) + x^2 fracddxleft[ phi(x)right] $ Can be viewed as an explicit "form".



      So when we compute $$fracdelta Fdelta phi(x)$$



      Everything makes sense (since the argument of the $phi$ we are differentiating w.r.t matches the argument of the $phi$ in the original function and the corresponding $fracddx$ is compatible with the $x$ arguments in both cases.) And we use our typical euler lagrange equations.



      $$ fracdelta Fdelta phi(x) = fracpartial Fpartial phi(x) - fracddx left[ fracpartial Fpartial left( fracddx[phi(x)] right) ...right] = 1+2x $$



      If you make an expression like



      $$fracdelta Fdelta phi(x^0)$$



      Now it's unclear what you mean, but we can guess. Let us substitute every instance of the string "$x$" with "$x^0$" in $F$ and then this statement can be still well defined. And we conclude that it is equal to



      $$ 1 + 2x^0 $$



      Now consider:



      $$fracdelta^2 Fdelta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) $$



      This is now getting us into bad territory. Not only do we not have a compatible variable $x$ in either of arguments but we cannot implicitly "guess" what string substitution needs to be made here since any global level string subtitution will render the other derivative to 0. So I am completely lost as to what this could mean.










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I was reading this and found on page 6 was a description of a generalization of Taylor series to linear functionals. Reproduced below as



      $$ F[phi + lambda] = sum_n=0^infty left[frac1n! intint...int fracdelta ^n F[phi] delta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) ... delta phi(x^n-1) dx^0 dx^1 ... dx^n-1
      right] $$



      I don't understand exactly what the term $$ fracdelta ^n F[phi] delta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) ... delta phi(x^n-1) $$



      Means.



      And let me be extremely concrete. Consider an operator $F: phi rightarrow phi + x^2phi'$, quite literally what this means is that $F: (mathbbR rightarrow mathbbR) rightarrow (mathbbR rightarrow mathbbR) $



      And $F:= phi(x) rightarrow phi(x) + x^2 fracddxleft[ phi(x)right] $ Can be viewed as an explicit "form".



      So when we compute $$fracdelta Fdelta phi(x)$$



      Everything makes sense (since the argument of the $phi$ we are differentiating w.r.t matches the argument of the $phi$ in the original function and the corresponding $fracddx$ is compatible with the $x$ arguments in both cases.) And we use our typical euler lagrange equations.



      $$ fracdelta Fdelta phi(x) = fracpartial Fpartial phi(x) - fracddx left[ fracpartial Fpartial left( fracddx[phi(x)] right) ...right] = 1+2x $$



      If you make an expression like



      $$fracdelta Fdelta phi(x^0)$$



      Now it's unclear what you mean, but we can guess. Let us substitute every instance of the string "$x$" with "$x^0$" in $F$ and then this statement can be still well defined. And we conclude that it is equal to



      $$ 1 + 2x^0 $$



      Now consider:



      $$fracdelta^2 Fdelta phi(x^0) delta phi(x^1) $$



      This is now getting us into bad territory. Not only do we not have a compatible variable $x$ in either of arguments but we cannot implicitly "guess" what string substitution needs to be made here since any global level string subtitution will render the other derivative to 0. So I am completely lost as to what this could mean.







      physics euler-lagrange-equation functional-calculus






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Feb 2 at 23:22







      frogeyedpeas

















      asked Feb 2 at 23:05









      frogeyedpeasfrogeyedpeas

      7,64172054




      7,64172054




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1












          $begingroup$

          I'll run through your example and hopefully that makes it clear.



          $$phimapsto F[phi]= phi+x^2phi'$$
          Vary this
          $$phi+deltaphimapsto F[phi]+deltaphi+x^2deltaphi'$$
          So we have formally
          $$fracF[phi+deltaphi](x)-F[phi](x)deltaphi(y)=fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y)+x^2fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y)$$



          Then we take as our definition that (and more generally would have ignored $mathcal O(deltaphi)$ terms if we have things like $F[phi]=phi^2$)
          $$
          fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y):=delta(x-y),
          $$

          the Dirac delta function. Similarly,
          $$
          fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y):=delta'(x-y).
          $$

          One can make this rigorous with compactly supported test functions and the like.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$




















            1












            $begingroup$

            FWIW, in OP's example OP is considering the functional
            $$ F[phi]~:=~ phi(x_0) + x_0^2phi^prime(x_0), $$
            which depends on the parameter $x^0inmathbbR$.



            Then the functional/variational derivative is
            $$ fracdelta F[phi]delta phi(x_1)~=~delta(x_0!-!x_1) + x_0^2delta^prime(x_0!-!x_1), $$
            which doesn't depend on $phi$. Therefore the higher functional derivatives vanish.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













              Your Answer





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              2 Answers
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              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

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              active

              oldest

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              active

              oldest

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              1












              $begingroup$

              I'll run through your example and hopefully that makes it clear.



              $$phimapsto F[phi]= phi+x^2phi'$$
              Vary this
              $$phi+deltaphimapsto F[phi]+deltaphi+x^2deltaphi'$$
              So we have formally
              $$fracF[phi+deltaphi](x)-F[phi](x)deltaphi(y)=fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y)+x^2fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y)$$



              Then we take as our definition that (and more generally would have ignored $mathcal O(deltaphi)$ terms if we have things like $F[phi]=phi^2$)
              $$
              fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y):=delta(x-y),
              $$

              the Dirac delta function. Similarly,
              $$
              fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y):=delta'(x-y).
              $$

              One can make this rigorous with compactly supported test functions and the like.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                1












                $begingroup$

                I'll run through your example and hopefully that makes it clear.



                $$phimapsto F[phi]= phi+x^2phi'$$
                Vary this
                $$phi+deltaphimapsto F[phi]+deltaphi+x^2deltaphi'$$
                So we have formally
                $$fracF[phi+deltaphi](x)-F[phi](x)deltaphi(y)=fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y)+x^2fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y)$$



                Then we take as our definition that (and more generally would have ignored $mathcal O(deltaphi)$ terms if we have things like $F[phi]=phi^2$)
                $$
                fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y):=delta(x-y),
                $$

                the Dirac delta function. Similarly,
                $$
                fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y):=delta'(x-y).
                $$

                One can make this rigorous with compactly supported test functions and the like.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  I'll run through your example and hopefully that makes it clear.



                  $$phimapsto F[phi]= phi+x^2phi'$$
                  Vary this
                  $$phi+deltaphimapsto F[phi]+deltaphi+x^2deltaphi'$$
                  So we have formally
                  $$fracF[phi+deltaphi](x)-F[phi](x)deltaphi(y)=fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y)+x^2fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y)$$



                  Then we take as our definition that (and more generally would have ignored $mathcal O(deltaphi)$ terms if we have things like $F[phi]=phi^2$)
                  $$
                  fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y):=delta(x-y),
                  $$

                  the Dirac delta function. Similarly,
                  $$
                  fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y):=delta'(x-y).
                  $$

                  One can make this rigorous with compactly supported test functions and the like.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  I'll run through your example and hopefully that makes it clear.



                  $$phimapsto F[phi]= phi+x^2phi'$$
                  Vary this
                  $$phi+deltaphimapsto F[phi]+deltaphi+x^2deltaphi'$$
                  So we have formally
                  $$fracF[phi+deltaphi](x)-F[phi](x)deltaphi(y)=fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y)+x^2fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y)$$



                  Then we take as our definition that (and more generally would have ignored $mathcal O(deltaphi)$ terms if we have things like $F[phi]=phi^2$)
                  $$
                  fracdeltaphi(x)deltaphi(y):=delta(x-y),
                  $$

                  the Dirac delta function. Similarly,
                  $$
                  fracdeltaphi'(x)deltaphi(y):=delta'(x-y).
                  $$

                  One can make this rigorous with compactly supported test functions and the like.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Mar 18 at 12:02

























                  answered Feb 3 at 0:06









                  Alec B-GAlec B-G

                  52019




                  52019





















                      1












                      $begingroup$

                      FWIW, in OP's example OP is considering the functional
                      $$ F[phi]~:=~ phi(x_0) + x_0^2phi^prime(x_0), $$
                      which depends on the parameter $x^0inmathbbR$.



                      Then the functional/variational derivative is
                      $$ fracdelta F[phi]delta phi(x_1)~=~delta(x_0!-!x_1) + x_0^2delta^prime(x_0!-!x_1), $$
                      which doesn't depend on $phi$. Therefore the higher functional derivatives vanish.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$

















                        1












                        $begingroup$

                        FWIW, in OP's example OP is considering the functional
                        $$ F[phi]~:=~ phi(x_0) + x_0^2phi^prime(x_0), $$
                        which depends on the parameter $x^0inmathbbR$.



                        Then the functional/variational derivative is
                        $$ fracdelta F[phi]delta phi(x_1)~=~delta(x_0!-!x_1) + x_0^2delta^prime(x_0!-!x_1), $$
                        which doesn't depend on $phi$. Therefore the higher functional derivatives vanish.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$















                          1












                          1








                          1





                          $begingroup$

                          FWIW, in OP's example OP is considering the functional
                          $$ F[phi]~:=~ phi(x_0) + x_0^2phi^prime(x_0), $$
                          which depends on the parameter $x^0inmathbbR$.



                          Then the functional/variational derivative is
                          $$ fracdelta F[phi]delta phi(x_1)~=~delta(x_0!-!x_1) + x_0^2delta^prime(x_0!-!x_1), $$
                          which doesn't depend on $phi$. Therefore the higher functional derivatives vanish.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          FWIW, in OP's example OP is considering the functional
                          $$ F[phi]~:=~ phi(x_0) + x_0^2phi^prime(x_0), $$
                          which depends on the parameter $x^0inmathbbR$.



                          Then the functional/variational derivative is
                          $$ fracdelta F[phi]delta phi(x_1)~=~delta(x_0!-!x_1) + x_0^2delta^prime(x_0!-!x_1), $$
                          which doesn't depend on $phi$. Therefore the higher functional derivatives vanish.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered Feb 3 at 12:05









                          QmechanicQmechanic

                          5,17711858




                          5,17711858



























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