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$begingroup$
I've got $bf v = x^2partial_x$, and I'm trying to find $exp(varepsilonbf v)$, but I'm having some trouble.
If I define $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ then I get a different outcome to $bf v^n+1 = bf v^nbf v$.
For example:
$$bf v^2 = bf vv = (x^2partial_x)(x^2partial_x) = x^2(partial_xx^2)partial_x =
x^2(2x)partial_x = 2x^3partial_x$$
$$bf v^3 = bf vbf v^2 =(x^2partial_x)(2x^3partial_x)=x^2(partial_x2x^3)partial_x = x^2(6x^2)partial_x = 6x^4partial_x$$
$$bf v^3 = bf v^2bf v = (2x^3partial_x)(x^2partial_x) = 2x^3(partial_xx^2)partial_x = 2x^3(2x)partial_x = 4x^4partial_x$$
Using $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ gives
$$exp(varepsilon bf v)x = fracx1-varepsilon x$$
While using $bf v^n+1 = bf v^nbf v$ gives
$$exp(varepsilon bf v)x = fracx2(1+mathrm e^2varepsilon x)$$
In both cases, when $varepsilon =0$, we get just $x$, i.e. the identity element. Also, in both cases, we get
$$lim_varepsilon to 0 fracmathrm dmathrm dvarepsilon exp(varepsilon bf v)x = bf v$$
The same $bf v in mathfrak g$ can't possible generate two different flows, can it?
lie-groups lie-algebras vector-fields
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I've got $bf v = x^2partial_x$, and I'm trying to find $exp(varepsilonbf v)$, but I'm having some trouble.
If I define $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ then I get a different outcome to $bf v^n+1 = bf v^nbf v$.
For example:
$$bf v^2 = bf vv = (x^2partial_x)(x^2partial_x) = x^2(partial_xx^2)partial_x =
x^2(2x)partial_x = 2x^3partial_x$$
$$bf v^3 = bf vbf v^2 =(x^2partial_x)(2x^3partial_x)=x^2(partial_x2x^3)partial_x = x^2(6x^2)partial_x = 6x^4partial_x$$
$$bf v^3 = bf v^2bf v = (2x^3partial_x)(x^2partial_x) = 2x^3(partial_xx^2)partial_x = 2x^3(2x)partial_x = 4x^4partial_x$$
Using $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ gives
$$exp(varepsilon bf v)x = fracx1-varepsilon x$$
While using $bf v^n+1 = bf v^nbf v$ gives
$$exp(varepsilon bf v)x = fracx2(1+mathrm e^2varepsilon x)$$
In both cases, when $varepsilon =0$, we get just $x$, i.e. the identity element. Also, in both cases, we get
$$lim_varepsilon to 0 fracmathrm dmathrm dvarepsilon exp(varepsilon bf v)x = bf v$$
The same $bf v in mathfrak g$ can't possible generate two different flows, can it?
lie-groups lie-algebras vector-fields
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Doesn't it seem odd to you that you are not getting iterates (i.e. nested compositions) of $partial_x$? For instance, if $mathbfv = partial_x$, what should $mathbfv^2$ be?
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 14 at 17:37
$begingroup$
If $bf v = partial_x$ then I would say $bf v^2 = (1partial_x)(1partial_x) = 1(partial_x 1)partial_x=0$. Similarly $bf v^n =0$ for all $n ge 2$, meaning that $exp(varepsilon bf v)x= (1+varepsilon partial_x)x=x+varepsilon$, which is the correct flow.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:16
$begingroup$
And yet, "the derivative with respect to $x$ of the derivative with respect to $x$" is not the zero operator (without projection to first order operators). If $mathbfv = partial_x$, $mathbfv^2 = partial_x^2$, the second derivative with respect to $x$. (... which projects onto the zero vector on the subspace of first order differentials.) But in short, in your expression "$1(partial_x 1) partial_x$", you have made an error: the first $partial_x$ acts on the rest of the expression; you should have "$1 partial_x (1 partial_x) = 1 (1 partial_x^2 + 0 partial_x)$".
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 14:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I've got $bf v = x^2partial_x$, and I'm trying to find $exp(varepsilonbf v)$, but I'm having some trouble.
If I define $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ then I get a different outcome to $bf v^n+1 = bf v^nbf v$.
For example:
$$bf v^2 = bf vv = (x^2partial_x)(x^2partial_x) = x^2(partial_xx^2)partial_x =
x^2(2x)partial_x = 2x^3partial_x$$
$$bf v^3 = bf vbf v^2 =(x^2partial_x)(2x^3partial_x)=x^2(partial_x2x^3)partial_x = x^2(6x^2)partial_x = 6x^4partial_x$$
$$bf v^3 = bf v^2bf v = (2x^3partial_x)(x^2partial_x) = 2x^3(partial_xx^2)partial_x = 2x^3(2x)partial_x = 4x^4partial_x$$
Using $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ gives
$$exp(varepsilon bf v)x = fracx1-varepsilon x$$
While using $bf v^n+1 = bf v^nbf v$ gives
$$exp(varepsilon bf v)x = fracx2(1+mathrm e^2varepsilon x)$$
In both cases, when $varepsilon =0$, we get just $x$, i.e. the identity element. Also, in both cases, we get
$$lim_varepsilon to 0 fracmathrm dmathrm dvarepsilon exp(varepsilon bf v)x = bf v$$
The same $bf v in mathfrak g$ can't possible generate two different flows, can it?
lie-groups lie-algebras vector-fields
$endgroup$
I've got $bf v = x^2partial_x$, and I'm trying to find $exp(varepsilonbf v)$, but I'm having some trouble.
If I define $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ then I get a different outcome to $bf v^n+1 = bf v^nbf v$.
For example:
$$bf v^2 = bf vv = (x^2partial_x)(x^2partial_x) = x^2(partial_xx^2)partial_x =
x^2(2x)partial_x = 2x^3partial_x$$
$$bf v^3 = bf vbf v^2 =(x^2partial_x)(2x^3partial_x)=x^2(partial_x2x^3)partial_x = x^2(6x^2)partial_x = 6x^4partial_x$$
$$bf v^3 = bf v^2bf v = (2x^3partial_x)(x^2partial_x) = 2x^3(partial_xx^2)partial_x = 2x^3(2x)partial_x = 4x^4partial_x$$
Using $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ gives
$$exp(varepsilon bf v)x = fracx1-varepsilon x$$
While using $bf v^n+1 = bf v^nbf v$ gives
$$exp(varepsilon bf v)x = fracx2(1+mathrm e^2varepsilon x)$$
In both cases, when $varepsilon =0$, we get just $x$, i.e. the identity element. Also, in both cases, we get
$$lim_varepsilon to 0 fracmathrm dmathrm dvarepsilon exp(varepsilon bf v)x = bf v$$
The same $bf v in mathfrak g$ can't possible generate two different flows, can it?
lie-groups lie-algebras vector-fields
lie-groups lie-algebras vector-fields
asked Mar 14 at 17:20
Fly by NightFly by Night
26.1k32978
26.1k32978
$begingroup$
Doesn't it seem odd to you that you are not getting iterates (i.e. nested compositions) of $partial_x$? For instance, if $mathbfv = partial_x$, what should $mathbfv^2$ be?
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 14 at 17:37
$begingroup$
If $bf v = partial_x$ then I would say $bf v^2 = (1partial_x)(1partial_x) = 1(partial_x 1)partial_x=0$. Similarly $bf v^n =0$ for all $n ge 2$, meaning that $exp(varepsilon bf v)x= (1+varepsilon partial_x)x=x+varepsilon$, which is the correct flow.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:16
$begingroup$
And yet, "the derivative with respect to $x$ of the derivative with respect to $x$" is not the zero operator (without projection to first order operators). If $mathbfv = partial_x$, $mathbfv^2 = partial_x^2$, the second derivative with respect to $x$. (... which projects onto the zero vector on the subspace of first order differentials.) But in short, in your expression "$1(partial_x 1) partial_x$", you have made an error: the first $partial_x$ acts on the rest of the expression; you should have "$1 partial_x (1 partial_x) = 1 (1 partial_x^2 + 0 partial_x)$".
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 14:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Doesn't it seem odd to you that you are not getting iterates (i.e. nested compositions) of $partial_x$? For instance, if $mathbfv = partial_x$, what should $mathbfv^2$ be?
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 14 at 17:37
$begingroup$
If $bf v = partial_x$ then I would say $bf v^2 = (1partial_x)(1partial_x) = 1(partial_x 1)partial_x=0$. Similarly $bf v^n =0$ for all $n ge 2$, meaning that $exp(varepsilon bf v)x= (1+varepsilon partial_x)x=x+varepsilon$, which is the correct flow.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:16
$begingroup$
And yet, "the derivative with respect to $x$ of the derivative with respect to $x$" is not the zero operator (without projection to first order operators). If $mathbfv = partial_x$, $mathbfv^2 = partial_x^2$, the second derivative with respect to $x$. (... which projects onto the zero vector on the subspace of first order differentials.) But in short, in your expression "$1(partial_x 1) partial_x$", you have made an error: the first $partial_x$ acts on the rest of the expression; you should have "$1 partial_x (1 partial_x) = 1 (1 partial_x^2 + 0 partial_x)$".
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 14:03
$begingroup$
Doesn't it seem odd to you that you are not getting iterates (i.e. nested compositions) of $partial_x$? For instance, if $mathbfv = partial_x$, what should $mathbfv^2$ be?
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 14 at 17:37
$begingroup$
Doesn't it seem odd to you that you are not getting iterates (i.e. nested compositions) of $partial_x$? For instance, if $mathbfv = partial_x$, what should $mathbfv^2$ be?
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 14 at 17:37
$begingroup$
If $bf v = partial_x$ then I would say $bf v^2 = (1partial_x)(1partial_x) = 1(partial_x 1)partial_x=0$. Similarly $bf v^n =0$ for all $n ge 2$, meaning that $exp(varepsilon bf v)x= (1+varepsilon partial_x)x=x+varepsilon$, which is the correct flow.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:16
$begingroup$
If $bf v = partial_x$ then I would say $bf v^2 = (1partial_x)(1partial_x) = 1(partial_x 1)partial_x=0$. Similarly $bf v^n =0$ for all $n ge 2$, meaning that $exp(varepsilon bf v)x= (1+varepsilon partial_x)x=x+varepsilon$, which is the correct flow.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:16
$begingroup$
And yet, "the derivative with respect to $x$ of the derivative with respect to $x$" is not the zero operator (without projection to first order operators). If $mathbfv = partial_x$, $mathbfv^2 = partial_x^2$, the second derivative with respect to $x$. (... which projects onto the zero vector on the subspace of first order differentials.) But in short, in your expression "$1(partial_x 1) partial_x$", you have made an error: the first $partial_x$ acts on the rest of the expression; you should have "$1 partial_x (1 partial_x) = 1 (1 partial_x^2 + 0 partial_x)$".
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 14:03
$begingroup$
And yet, "the derivative with respect to $x$ of the derivative with respect to $x$" is not the zero operator (without projection to first order operators). If $mathbfv = partial_x$, $mathbfv^2 = partial_x^2$, the second derivative with respect to $x$. (... which projects onto the zero vector on the subspace of first order differentials.) But in short, in your expression "$1(partial_x 1) partial_x$", you have made an error: the first $partial_x$ acts on the rest of the expression; you should have "$1 partial_x (1 partial_x) = 1 (1 partial_x^2 + 0 partial_x)$".
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 14:03
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
If you apply the product rule carefully, you don't get two different answers. In your example, beginalign*
mathbfv(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) \
&= x^2 f'(x) text, and \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)left( (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) right) \
&= (x^2 partial_x)left( x^2 f'(x) right) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) ) text, or \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= left((x^2 partial_x) (x^2 partial_x) right) (f(x)) \
&= (x^2(2x partial_x + x^2 partial_x^2))(f(x)) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) )
endalign*
so we see $mathbfv^2 = 2x^3 partial_x + x^4 partial_x^2$. Similarly, $mathbfv^3 = 6 x^4 partial_x + 6 x^5 partial_x^2 + x^6 partial_x^3$.
(Of course, if we're linearizing, we project onto the first term in both of those.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for the reply. Am I right to think that $bf v$ is best understood by its action on a function, i.e. $bf v(f)$, and so "multiplying on the right" doesn't make sense. $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is fine, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ doesn't make sense because it's not a function. Hence $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ is the only way to go?
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:22
$begingroup$
@FlybyNight : $[mathbfv(f)]mathbfv$ is an operator as much as $x^2 partial_x$ is since $mathbfv(f)$ is some function and the $mathbfv$ on the right still has an open slot to consume a function. Note that I showed both $mathbfv(mathbfv(f))$ and $(mathbfv(mathbfv))(f)$ above, so both "wrap another $mathbfv$ on the left" ($mathbfv (mathbfv^n(f))$) and "let $mathbfv^n$ act on $mathbfv(f)$" ($mathbfv^n (mathbfv(f))$), arriving at the same result both ways.
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 13:57
$begingroup$
But $bf v(f)bf v$ isn't a function, while $bf vv(f)$ is. That's what I meant.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 16 at 18:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You are looking at the simplest Lie advective flow in perturbation theory (as applied in physics: QFT) and the workhorse example in the 19th century book of Georg Sheffer cited.
v generates a shift operator, and it pays to define suitable canonical coordinates,
$$
y=-1/x, qquad Longrightarrow qquad x^2 partial_x=partial_y ,
$$
so that you are shifting y by $epsilon$,
$$
e^epsilon partial_y ~~f(y)= f(y+epsilon),
$$
which reads
$$
e^epsilon x^2partial_x ~~g(x)= gleft(frac-1y+epsilonright )=gleft (fracx1-epsilon xright ),
$$
a standard formula in the RG advection of QFT.
Your difficulties are traceable to your refusal to perform your Heaviside calculus manipulations of functions of differential operators with a "test-function" f(x) on the right, which keeps track of the proper chain rule action of noncommuting derivative operators.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The action of a vector field as a derivation on the space of functions means that it only makes sense to multiply on the left because $bf v(f)$ is a function and so $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is also a function, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ is a function times a vector field, i.e. a vector field.
The differential operator $bf v = x^2partial_x$ is best understood as differentiate with respect to $x$, and then multiply by $x^2$.
Applied to $x$, we get $x mapsto 1 mapsto x^2$, meaning $bf v(x) = x^2$.
Applied to $x^2$, we get $x^2 mapsto 2x mapsto 2x^3$, meaning $bf v^2(x) = 2x^3$.
Applied to $2x^3$, we get $2x^3 mapsto 6x^2 mapsto 6x^4$, meaning $bf v^3(x) = 6x^4$.
In general, $bf v^n(x) = n!x^n+1$, and so for all $|varepsilon x|<1$
begineqnarray*
sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!bf v^n(x) &=& sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!n!x^n+1 \ \
&=& xsum_n ge 0 (varepsilon x)^n \ \
&=& fracx1-varepsilon x
endeqnarray*
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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$begingroup$
If you apply the product rule carefully, you don't get two different answers. In your example, beginalign*
mathbfv(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) \
&= x^2 f'(x) text, and \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)left( (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) right) \
&= (x^2 partial_x)left( x^2 f'(x) right) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) ) text, or \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= left((x^2 partial_x) (x^2 partial_x) right) (f(x)) \
&= (x^2(2x partial_x + x^2 partial_x^2))(f(x)) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) )
endalign*
so we see $mathbfv^2 = 2x^3 partial_x + x^4 partial_x^2$. Similarly, $mathbfv^3 = 6 x^4 partial_x + 6 x^5 partial_x^2 + x^6 partial_x^3$.
(Of course, if we're linearizing, we project onto the first term in both of those.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for the reply. Am I right to think that $bf v$ is best understood by its action on a function, i.e. $bf v(f)$, and so "multiplying on the right" doesn't make sense. $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is fine, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ doesn't make sense because it's not a function. Hence $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ is the only way to go?
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:22
$begingroup$
@FlybyNight : $[mathbfv(f)]mathbfv$ is an operator as much as $x^2 partial_x$ is since $mathbfv(f)$ is some function and the $mathbfv$ on the right still has an open slot to consume a function. Note that I showed both $mathbfv(mathbfv(f))$ and $(mathbfv(mathbfv))(f)$ above, so both "wrap another $mathbfv$ on the left" ($mathbfv (mathbfv^n(f))$) and "let $mathbfv^n$ act on $mathbfv(f)$" ($mathbfv^n (mathbfv(f))$), arriving at the same result both ways.
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 13:57
$begingroup$
But $bf v(f)bf v$ isn't a function, while $bf vv(f)$ is. That's what I meant.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 16 at 18:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you apply the product rule carefully, you don't get two different answers. In your example, beginalign*
mathbfv(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) \
&= x^2 f'(x) text, and \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)left( (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) right) \
&= (x^2 partial_x)left( x^2 f'(x) right) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) ) text, or \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= left((x^2 partial_x) (x^2 partial_x) right) (f(x)) \
&= (x^2(2x partial_x + x^2 partial_x^2))(f(x)) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) )
endalign*
so we see $mathbfv^2 = 2x^3 partial_x + x^4 partial_x^2$. Similarly, $mathbfv^3 = 6 x^4 partial_x + 6 x^5 partial_x^2 + x^6 partial_x^3$.
(Of course, if we're linearizing, we project onto the first term in both of those.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for the reply. Am I right to think that $bf v$ is best understood by its action on a function, i.e. $bf v(f)$, and so "multiplying on the right" doesn't make sense. $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is fine, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ doesn't make sense because it's not a function. Hence $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ is the only way to go?
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:22
$begingroup$
@FlybyNight : $[mathbfv(f)]mathbfv$ is an operator as much as $x^2 partial_x$ is since $mathbfv(f)$ is some function and the $mathbfv$ on the right still has an open slot to consume a function. Note that I showed both $mathbfv(mathbfv(f))$ and $(mathbfv(mathbfv))(f)$ above, so both "wrap another $mathbfv$ on the left" ($mathbfv (mathbfv^n(f))$) and "let $mathbfv^n$ act on $mathbfv(f)$" ($mathbfv^n (mathbfv(f))$), arriving at the same result both ways.
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 13:57
$begingroup$
But $bf v(f)bf v$ isn't a function, while $bf vv(f)$ is. That's what I meant.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 16 at 18:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you apply the product rule carefully, you don't get two different answers. In your example, beginalign*
mathbfv(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) \
&= x^2 f'(x) text, and \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)left( (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) right) \
&= (x^2 partial_x)left( x^2 f'(x) right) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) ) text, or \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= left((x^2 partial_x) (x^2 partial_x) right) (f(x)) \
&= (x^2(2x partial_x + x^2 partial_x^2))(f(x)) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) )
endalign*
so we see $mathbfv^2 = 2x^3 partial_x + x^4 partial_x^2$. Similarly, $mathbfv^3 = 6 x^4 partial_x + 6 x^5 partial_x^2 + x^6 partial_x^3$.
(Of course, if we're linearizing, we project onto the first term in both of those.)
$endgroup$
If you apply the product rule carefully, you don't get two different answers. In your example, beginalign*
mathbfv(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) \
&= x^2 f'(x) text, and \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= (x^2 partial_x)left( (x^2 partial_x)(f(x)) right) \
&= (x^2 partial_x)left( x^2 f'(x) right) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) ) text, or \
mathbfv^2(f(x)) &= left((x^2 partial_x) (x^2 partial_x) right) (f(x)) \
&= (x^2(2x partial_x + x^2 partial_x^2))(f(x)) \
&= x^2(2x f'(x) + x^2 f''(x) )
endalign*
so we see $mathbfv^2 = 2x^3 partial_x + x^4 partial_x^2$. Similarly, $mathbfv^3 = 6 x^4 partial_x + 6 x^5 partial_x^2 + x^6 partial_x^3$.
(Of course, if we're linearizing, we project onto the first term in both of those.)
answered Mar 14 at 17:56
Eric TowersEric Towers
32.9k22370
32.9k22370
$begingroup$
Thanks for the reply. Am I right to think that $bf v$ is best understood by its action on a function, i.e. $bf v(f)$, and so "multiplying on the right" doesn't make sense. $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is fine, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ doesn't make sense because it's not a function. Hence $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ is the only way to go?
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:22
$begingroup$
@FlybyNight : $[mathbfv(f)]mathbfv$ is an operator as much as $x^2 partial_x$ is since $mathbfv(f)$ is some function and the $mathbfv$ on the right still has an open slot to consume a function. Note that I showed both $mathbfv(mathbfv(f))$ and $(mathbfv(mathbfv))(f)$ above, so both "wrap another $mathbfv$ on the left" ($mathbfv (mathbfv^n(f))$) and "let $mathbfv^n$ act on $mathbfv(f)$" ($mathbfv^n (mathbfv(f))$), arriving at the same result both ways.
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 13:57
$begingroup$
But $bf v(f)bf v$ isn't a function, while $bf vv(f)$ is. That's what I meant.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 16 at 18:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks for the reply. Am I right to think that $bf v$ is best understood by its action on a function, i.e. $bf v(f)$, and so "multiplying on the right" doesn't make sense. $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is fine, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ doesn't make sense because it's not a function. Hence $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ is the only way to go?
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:22
$begingroup$
@FlybyNight : $[mathbfv(f)]mathbfv$ is an operator as much as $x^2 partial_x$ is since $mathbfv(f)$ is some function and the $mathbfv$ on the right still has an open slot to consume a function. Note that I showed both $mathbfv(mathbfv(f))$ and $(mathbfv(mathbfv))(f)$ above, so both "wrap another $mathbfv$ on the left" ($mathbfv (mathbfv^n(f))$) and "let $mathbfv^n$ act on $mathbfv(f)$" ($mathbfv^n (mathbfv(f))$), arriving at the same result both ways.
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 13:57
$begingroup$
But $bf v(f)bf v$ isn't a function, while $bf vv(f)$ is. That's what I meant.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 16 at 18:22
$begingroup$
Thanks for the reply. Am I right to think that $bf v$ is best understood by its action on a function, i.e. $bf v(f)$, and so "multiplying on the right" doesn't make sense. $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is fine, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ doesn't make sense because it's not a function. Hence $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ is the only way to go?
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:22
$begingroup$
Thanks for the reply. Am I right to think that $bf v$ is best understood by its action on a function, i.e. $bf v(f)$, and so "multiplying on the right" doesn't make sense. $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is fine, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ doesn't make sense because it's not a function. Hence $bf v^n+1 = bf vbf v^n$ is the only way to go?
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:22
$begingroup$
@FlybyNight : $[mathbfv(f)]mathbfv$ is an operator as much as $x^2 partial_x$ is since $mathbfv(f)$ is some function and the $mathbfv$ on the right still has an open slot to consume a function. Note that I showed both $mathbfv(mathbfv(f))$ and $(mathbfv(mathbfv))(f)$ above, so both "wrap another $mathbfv$ on the left" ($mathbfv (mathbfv^n(f))$) and "let $mathbfv^n$ act on $mathbfv(f)$" ($mathbfv^n (mathbfv(f))$), arriving at the same result both ways.
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 13:57
$begingroup$
@FlybyNight : $[mathbfv(f)]mathbfv$ is an operator as much as $x^2 partial_x$ is since $mathbfv(f)$ is some function and the $mathbfv$ on the right still has an open slot to consume a function. Note that I showed both $mathbfv(mathbfv(f))$ and $(mathbfv(mathbfv))(f)$ above, so both "wrap another $mathbfv$ on the left" ($mathbfv (mathbfv^n(f))$) and "let $mathbfv^n$ act on $mathbfv(f)$" ($mathbfv^n (mathbfv(f))$), arriving at the same result both ways.
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 13:57
$begingroup$
But $bf v(f)bf v$ isn't a function, while $bf vv(f)$ is. That's what I meant.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 16 at 18:22
$begingroup$
But $bf v(f)bf v$ isn't a function, while $bf vv(f)$ is. That's what I meant.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 16 at 18:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You are looking at the simplest Lie advective flow in perturbation theory (as applied in physics: QFT) and the workhorse example in the 19th century book of Georg Sheffer cited.
v generates a shift operator, and it pays to define suitable canonical coordinates,
$$
y=-1/x, qquad Longrightarrow qquad x^2 partial_x=partial_y ,
$$
so that you are shifting y by $epsilon$,
$$
e^epsilon partial_y ~~f(y)= f(y+epsilon),
$$
which reads
$$
e^epsilon x^2partial_x ~~g(x)= gleft(frac-1y+epsilonright )=gleft (fracx1-epsilon xright ),
$$
a standard formula in the RG advection of QFT.
Your difficulties are traceable to your refusal to perform your Heaviside calculus manipulations of functions of differential operators with a "test-function" f(x) on the right, which keeps track of the proper chain rule action of noncommuting derivative operators.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You are looking at the simplest Lie advective flow in perturbation theory (as applied in physics: QFT) and the workhorse example in the 19th century book of Georg Sheffer cited.
v generates a shift operator, and it pays to define suitable canonical coordinates,
$$
y=-1/x, qquad Longrightarrow qquad x^2 partial_x=partial_y ,
$$
so that you are shifting y by $epsilon$,
$$
e^epsilon partial_y ~~f(y)= f(y+epsilon),
$$
which reads
$$
e^epsilon x^2partial_x ~~g(x)= gleft(frac-1y+epsilonright )=gleft (fracx1-epsilon xright ),
$$
a standard formula in the RG advection of QFT.
Your difficulties are traceable to your refusal to perform your Heaviside calculus manipulations of functions of differential operators with a "test-function" f(x) on the right, which keeps track of the proper chain rule action of noncommuting derivative operators.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You are looking at the simplest Lie advective flow in perturbation theory (as applied in physics: QFT) and the workhorse example in the 19th century book of Georg Sheffer cited.
v generates a shift operator, and it pays to define suitable canonical coordinates,
$$
y=-1/x, qquad Longrightarrow qquad x^2 partial_x=partial_y ,
$$
so that you are shifting y by $epsilon$,
$$
e^epsilon partial_y ~~f(y)= f(y+epsilon),
$$
which reads
$$
e^epsilon x^2partial_x ~~g(x)= gleft(frac-1y+epsilonright )=gleft (fracx1-epsilon xright ),
$$
a standard formula in the RG advection of QFT.
Your difficulties are traceable to your refusal to perform your Heaviside calculus manipulations of functions of differential operators with a "test-function" f(x) on the right, which keeps track of the proper chain rule action of noncommuting derivative operators.
$endgroup$
You are looking at the simplest Lie advective flow in perturbation theory (as applied in physics: QFT) and the workhorse example in the 19th century book of Georg Sheffer cited.
v generates a shift operator, and it pays to define suitable canonical coordinates,
$$
y=-1/x, qquad Longrightarrow qquad x^2 partial_x=partial_y ,
$$
so that you are shifting y by $epsilon$,
$$
e^epsilon partial_y ~~f(y)= f(y+epsilon),
$$
which reads
$$
e^epsilon x^2partial_x ~~g(x)= gleft(frac-1y+epsilonright )=gleft (fracx1-epsilon xright ),
$$
a standard formula in the RG advection of QFT.
Your difficulties are traceable to your refusal to perform your Heaviside calculus manipulations of functions of differential operators with a "test-function" f(x) on the right, which keeps track of the proper chain rule action of noncommuting derivative operators.
edited Mar 16 at 2:51
answered Mar 15 at 16:59
Cosmas ZachosCosmas Zachos
1,810522
1,810522
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The action of a vector field as a derivation on the space of functions means that it only makes sense to multiply on the left because $bf v(f)$ is a function and so $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is also a function, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ is a function times a vector field, i.e. a vector field.
The differential operator $bf v = x^2partial_x$ is best understood as differentiate with respect to $x$, and then multiply by $x^2$.
Applied to $x$, we get $x mapsto 1 mapsto x^2$, meaning $bf v(x) = x^2$.
Applied to $x^2$, we get $x^2 mapsto 2x mapsto 2x^3$, meaning $bf v^2(x) = 2x^3$.
Applied to $2x^3$, we get $2x^3 mapsto 6x^2 mapsto 6x^4$, meaning $bf v^3(x) = 6x^4$.
In general, $bf v^n(x) = n!x^n+1$, and so for all $|varepsilon x|<1$
begineqnarray*
sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!bf v^n(x) &=& sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!n!x^n+1 \ \
&=& xsum_n ge 0 (varepsilon x)^n \ \
&=& fracx1-varepsilon x
endeqnarray*
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The action of a vector field as a derivation on the space of functions means that it only makes sense to multiply on the left because $bf v(f)$ is a function and so $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is also a function, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ is a function times a vector field, i.e. a vector field.
The differential operator $bf v = x^2partial_x$ is best understood as differentiate with respect to $x$, and then multiply by $x^2$.
Applied to $x$, we get $x mapsto 1 mapsto x^2$, meaning $bf v(x) = x^2$.
Applied to $x^2$, we get $x^2 mapsto 2x mapsto 2x^3$, meaning $bf v^2(x) = 2x^3$.
Applied to $2x^3$, we get $2x^3 mapsto 6x^2 mapsto 6x^4$, meaning $bf v^3(x) = 6x^4$.
In general, $bf v^n(x) = n!x^n+1$, and so for all $|varepsilon x|<1$
begineqnarray*
sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!bf v^n(x) &=& sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!n!x^n+1 \ \
&=& xsum_n ge 0 (varepsilon x)^n \ \
&=& fracx1-varepsilon x
endeqnarray*
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The action of a vector field as a derivation on the space of functions means that it only makes sense to multiply on the left because $bf v(f)$ is a function and so $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is also a function, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ is a function times a vector field, i.e. a vector field.
The differential operator $bf v = x^2partial_x$ is best understood as differentiate with respect to $x$, and then multiply by $x^2$.
Applied to $x$, we get $x mapsto 1 mapsto x^2$, meaning $bf v(x) = x^2$.
Applied to $x^2$, we get $x^2 mapsto 2x mapsto 2x^3$, meaning $bf v^2(x) = 2x^3$.
Applied to $2x^3$, we get $2x^3 mapsto 6x^2 mapsto 6x^4$, meaning $bf v^3(x) = 6x^4$.
In general, $bf v^n(x) = n!x^n+1$, and so for all $|varepsilon x|<1$
begineqnarray*
sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!bf v^n(x) &=& sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!n!x^n+1 \ \
&=& xsum_n ge 0 (varepsilon x)^n \ \
&=& fracx1-varepsilon x
endeqnarray*
$endgroup$
The action of a vector field as a derivation on the space of functions means that it only makes sense to multiply on the left because $bf v(f)$ is a function and so $bf v[bf v(f)]$ is also a function, while $[bf v(f)]bf v$ is a function times a vector field, i.e. a vector field.
The differential operator $bf v = x^2partial_x$ is best understood as differentiate with respect to $x$, and then multiply by $x^2$.
Applied to $x$, we get $x mapsto 1 mapsto x^2$, meaning $bf v(x) = x^2$.
Applied to $x^2$, we get $x^2 mapsto 2x mapsto 2x^3$, meaning $bf v^2(x) = 2x^3$.
Applied to $2x^3$, we get $2x^3 mapsto 6x^2 mapsto 6x^4$, meaning $bf v^3(x) = 6x^4$.
In general, $bf v^n(x) = n!x^n+1$, and so for all $|varepsilon x|<1$
begineqnarray*
sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!bf v^n(x) &=& sum_n ge 0 fracvarepsilon^nn!n!x^n+1 \ \
&=& xsum_n ge 0 (varepsilon x)^n \ \
&=& fracx1-varepsilon x
endeqnarray*
edited Mar 17 at 1:40
answered Mar 16 at 19:05
Fly by NightFly by Night
26.1k32978
26.1k32978
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Doesn't it seem odd to you that you are not getting iterates (i.e. nested compositions) of $partial_x$? For instance, if $mathbfv = partial_x$, what should $mathbfv^2$ be?
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 14 at 17:37
$begingroup$
If $bf v = partial_x$ then I would say $bf v^2 = (1partial_x)(1partial_x) = 1(partial_x 1)partial_x=0$. Similarly $bf v^n =0$ for all $n ge 2$, meaning that $exp(varepsilon bf v)x= (1+varepsilon partial_x)x=x+varepsilon$, which is the correct flow.
$endgroup$
– Fly by Night
Mar 14 at 18:16
$begingroup$
And yet, "the derivative with respect to $x$ of the derivative with respect to $x$" is not the zero operator (without projection to first order operators). If $mathbfv = partial_x$, $mathbfv^2 = partial_x^2$, the second derivative with respect to $x$. (... which projects onto the zero vector on the subspace of first order differentials.) But in short, in your expression "$1(partial_x 1) partial_x$", you have made an error: the first $partial_x$ acts on the rest of the expression; you should have "$1 partial_x (1 partial_x) = 1 (1 partial_x^2 + 0 partial_x)$".
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 15 at 14:03